A. Metallica or A. Avicularia?

kittiekins

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
9
So I am still new to the spiders, but I'm falling in love fast and falling pretty hard. I started with a beautiful A. versicolor a few months ago.
Since I got Frodo (versi) I've been trying to learn the names and families of different tarantulas. I went to the latest repticon over here at the fair ground and found myself with a Chaco from the NICEST and most helpful woman ever!(Now named Boris) and an A. Metallica.

Well, as I was walking around and a man asked me what i had got and so I told him. He kept saying my A. Metallica was a pink toe.
Well.. No.. the metallica is a white toe... not pink. A. Avicu is a pinktoe.. Same family, different spider.(I even double checked online to see if what I thought was correct was indeed correct.)
But now it has been bugging me all night. Was this guy right? Did I actually get an A. Avicu and NOT an A. Metallica? I know what they both look like as adults, but not as a sling.
This is what my little one looks like (photo taken from google, as it is to late and dark to get a photo of mine at the moment)
IMG_2116.jpg

I tried to google the different slings but it was no help, it basically gave me every sling in the family. I wouldn't be mad if it was an A. Avicularia, but I would also like for it to be the A. Metallica I purchased. Any one more experienced know what I actually got? I thought I knew, but since that man said it was actually a pink toe... I've been restless about it.
Thank you.
 

assidreemz

Arachnosquire
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
68
i am by no means 100% but after a quick couple searches on this site I'm pretty sure thats an avic aviv. but again there are variables such as my knowledge (or lack thereof) and the actual dls of the pictured spider.
 

kongekilde

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
67
There is No way to see the differenc in this sice at all
As slings more than 65% off Them look the same so u have to wait for adult color to show
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
17,819
First off all Avics go by the common name Pink Toe, be it metallica minatrix etc

Second with the exception of one species ( on a good day ) it's impossible to ID them from a photo at such a young age. Even as adults Avics are very, very very hard to ID from a photo. There's only one species I'm aware of (see below there's more evidently) that that can be done with, A minatrix. They are the only Avic which keeps the tiger patterning on their abdomen into adulthood.

My female A metallica can easily look like 2 different Ts with the right light and camera angle!

All Avic slings fall into 2 general types of color/pattern as slings according to a good breeder here on the board.
 
Last edited:

Poec54

Arachnoemperor
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
4,745
First, don't go by common names. They're notoriously inaccurate. People come here using common names, and we don't know what species they're talking about. Second, most species of Avics have babies that look like that, and change colors and markings as they grow. There's no way to tell now what it is.

What do you know about Avic care? Very important if you're going to keep yours alive.
 

kittiekins

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
9
Ok, I guess I will wait till it grows. I've decided to name it Mordor by the way. Keep the LOTR theme going. I know they have a lot of the same patterns but I wasn't sure about color. I'm trying to stay away from common names as well. I learned that while looking them up.
And to poec54, I believe I've got a good grip on care for this family. When I ended up with Frodo(versi) is when I started doing lots of research. Its been a few months now and Frodos molted beautifully a few times now and eats well. Happy little spider❤
 

Poec54

Arachnoemperor
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
4,745
Ok, I guess I will wait till it grows. I've decided to name it Mordor by the way. Keep the LOTR theme going. I know they have a lot of the same patterns but I wasn't sure about color. I'm trying to stay away from common names as well. I learned that while looking them up.
And to poec54, I believe I've got a good grip on care for this family. When I ended up with Frodo(versi) is when I started doing lots of research. Its been a few months now and Frodos molted beautifully a few times now and eats well. Happy little spider❤

So, tell us what you've learned about Avic care. There's some bad advice on the internet, and we have people here with a lot of first-hand experience. I'm one of them, I have 10 species of Avics.
 

kongekilde

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
67
Viper69 ;) u Are right in allmoste All u write; ) yes this genus goes by the stupid name pink to tarantula :( and this total stupid name is one off the reasons off so many hybrids in the hobby,to many noobs keep and breed Them and think a pink toe is a pink toe not knowing this is a pop name for about 30-40 different sp that look lot alike :(
But must sat a few more sp keep the patton they have as slings not only minatrix but All so A.hirschii from Ecuador and A.cf hirschii from peru and A.sp Columbia; )
And yes most off the sp in the avic genus look the same as slings,but u do have like 4-5 different color and pattons as slings in the genus ;)
But this Will not last for long cos when fukusima is done with revision Off the genus All u know Will be turned up side down :(
 
Last edited:

viper69

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
17,819
Viper69 ;) u Are right in allmoste All u write; ) yes this genus goes by the stupid name pink to tarantula :( and this total stupid name is one off the reasons off so many hybrids in the hobby,to many noobs keep and breed Them and think a pink toe is a pink toe not knowing this is a pop name for about 30-40 different sp that look lot alike :(
But must sat a few more sp keep the patton they have as slings not only minatrix but All so A.hirschii from Ecuador and A.cf hirschii from peru and A.sp Columbia; )
And yes most off the sp in the avic genus look the same as slings,but u do have like 4-5 different color and pattons as slings in the genus ;)
But this Will not last for long cos when fukusima is done with revision Off the genus All u know Will be turned up side down :(
I should have been more clear, only 1 species I know of hah. I haven't owned or seen those localities yet in person, let alone during their natural life cycle.

I'm only going by what Brett on the board posted years ago. I actually don't know from first hand how many groups there are. Though my huriana def look different than my other Avics

What localities/species fall into each group?
 

kittiekins

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
9
So, tell us what you've learned about Avic care. There's some bad advice on the internet, and we have people here with a lot of first-hand experience. I'm one of them, I have 10 species of Avics.
Well, I know they are arboreal so their home must be taller rather then move ground cover, temp should be about 70-75. provide plenty of things to climb on and make webs around. I picked some silk flower pieces with leaves. I was told by the breeder to LIGHTLY mist the soil to keep come humidity up and the he also told me that the drips of water on the plants and walls will provide water. Let the soil dry out between misting. When they get larger and more into adults that a can then safely provide a shallow water bowl. And they eat about once every 5 days, but never after a molt. Let the exoskeleton harden before feeding and never bug them after a molt. Over feeding can cause death, when I got Frodo and was asking about feeding the man told me they will engorge them selves if given to much. Am I missing anything important? Or was I told anything that is actually incorrect?
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
17,819
Well, I know they are arboreal so their home must be taller rather then move ground cover, temp should be about 70-75. provide plenty of things to climb on and make webs around. I picked some silk flower pieces with leaves. I was told by the breeder to LIGHTLY mist the soil to keep come humidity up and the he also told me that the drips of water on the plants and walls will provide water. Let the soil dry out between misting. When they get larger and more into adults that a can then safely provide a shallow water bowl. And they eat about once every 5 days, but never after a molt. Let the exoskeleton harden before feeding and never bug them after a molt. Over feeding can cause death, when I got Frodo and was asking about feeding the man told me they will engorge them selves if given to much. Am I missing anything important? Or was I told anything that is actually incorrect?
Water bowls- I provide mine with water "bowls" when their DLS is the size of a quarter. They won't drown. I have a pic of my A sp Kwitara River hanging vertically into the water "bowl" drinking.

Molting- What's more critical is letting their fangs harden, observe the color change to know when it's time to introduce prey, that's a more important indicator than the exoskeleton body

Feeding- I'm not going to say it has never happened to someone (I'd be shocked if it has though!!), but I haven't heard of a T over eating to death. I feed all my Ts, Avics and others, when they are hungry. I NEVER ration out food on some 5 day or whatever schedule people use. If they are hungry, let them eat. Esp when a sling, their only job as a sling is to evade predators and GROW.
Food "rationing" is a mistake in my opinion. They are opportunistic predators and will eat whenever they are able/hungry because they don't know when their next meal is. As result you will see some Ts get really plump abdomens. So much so, they may not eat for months or more, at least with my terrestrial species. I've never observed such long periods without food from any arboreal species I've owned.

I've had my female A metallica eat as many as 4 FAT female crickets in one sitting, and the next 3 days she ate another 2 or 3. This wasn't even after a molt, when Ts ramp up their eating frequency and quantity either!
 
Last edited:

kittiekins

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
9
Water bowls- I provide mine with water "bowls" when their DLS is the size of a quarter. They won't drown. I have a pic of my A sp Kwitara River hanging vertically into the water "bowl" drinking.

Molting- What's more critical is letting their fangs harden, observe the color change to know when it's time to introduce prey, that's a more important indicator than the exoskeleton body

Feeding- I'm not going to say it has never happened to someone, but I haven't heard of a T over eating to death. I feed all my Ts, Avics and others, when they are hungry. I NEVER ration out food on some 5 day or whatever schedule people use. If they are hungry, let them eat. Esp when a sling, their only job as a sling is to evade predators and GROW.
Food "rationing" is a mistake in my opinion.
I will definitely get little "bowls" in that case. I'll also watch the molting. Mordor molted last night, I'll be sure to watch the fangs to see the change. How would you know when your sling is hungry? I've just been following the every 5 days for feeding. I wanted to keep the same schedule the breeder was on.
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
17,819
I will definitely get little "bowls" in that case. I'll also watch the molting. Mordor molted last night, I'll be sure to watch the fangs to see the change. How would you know when your sling is hungry? I've just been following the every 5 days for feeding. I wanted to keep the same schedule the breeder was on.

For bowls, I make these http://www.tarantulasus.com/showthread.php/4353-A-tip-for-a-Tip-resistant-water-dish

Hunger- Technically I don't always know. A good guide I use is watching the size of their abdomen size relative to their body size. The fatter they are, the less likely they are to eat, it's by no means a hard and fast rule of thumb mind you. Some species have slender bodies. Like my AF Avic. geroldi, she's as large as my AF B. smithi, but my geroldi never has a larger abdomen proportionately speaking compared to my smithi. My female smithi's abdomen will get much larger.

However, I feel the abdominal size applies more for Ts under 2" than older specimens. Abdominal size is the best way to tell if your T is properly hydrated too IMO. In my experience, when Ts are young, it's very easy to notice if they need water or not. However, IME, once they reach about 2" DLS their abdomen can look large, but they really may need water, so always have some for them, plus constant clean water aids in humidity too. I have a nice adult female terrestrial T and her abdomen is huge. Well, I gave her a bowl water after being away for a week and she went right for it and drank water for at least an hour. So once they are larger it can be harder to tell at times.

For my Avics, I keep the bowl on the ground. All of mine use the water bowl, though I haven't caught my Geroldi using one yet, and I doubt she does.
 

kongekilde

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
67
I should have been more clear, only 1 species I know of hah. I haven't owned or seen those localities yet in person, let alone during their natural life cycle.

I'm only going by what Brett on the board posted years ago. I actually don't know from first hand how many groups there are. Though my huriana def look different than my other Avics

What localities/species fall into each group?
Different lokking slings u have A.avicularia witch look like most off the sp in this genus :) then u have A.hirschii - A.diversipes -A.laeta -and
A.purpurea ;) i do know a few have color and patton like purpurea (All but 1 off the blue avic slings belong to the purpurea complex ) From what i uptill now have seen And i have seen many over the years and do keeper like 25-28 different sp in this genus

---------- Post added 11-24-2014 at 07:20 PM ----------

Btw sorry for my bad bad writing i know i suck at english; )
 

Sana

Arachnoprince
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
1,139
I will definitely get little "bowls" in that case. I'll also watch the molting. Mordor molted last night, I'll be sure to watch the fangs to see the change. How would you know when your sling is hungry? I've just been following the every 5 days for feeding. I wanted to keep the same schedule the breeder was on.
My a. metallica has a specific hunting posture that is different from when she's just hanging out. When she's hunting she moves closer to the ground with her pedipalps pointed downward and she holds her body a little bit higher than usual in a way that reminds me of a cat getting ready to pounce.
 

cold blood

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,216
Kittie....Yeah they won't drown in a water bowl and I think one is even more important to have one available with an avic than it even is with other species. Mine all (every species) get water bowls once they reach 1/2" and I see them all drinking regularly without issue. I know I have posted this pic numerous times in such discussions, but here it is again, my versi sling drinking from a water bowl larger than its own DLS, obviously without any issue. I use the dish instead of misting, which I have never done with avics or any species in 14 years in the hobby. I do however, about once a week, use a syringe to dribble a little water on the webbing. But the sub always stays dry for my avics. The biggest thing with avics is having good cross ventilation...way more important than humidity IME. Aside from the water dish, I almost disregard humidity.

Also, the info you got about over-feeding causing death is complete balderdash...slings need to be fed when they are hungry, you cannot over-feed a sling. This is an excerpt from "Tarantulas and other Arachnids" on the subject of feeding:

"You cannot feed a tarantula spiderling too much...A hatchling tarantula is busy growing and has an appetite that is hard to satisfy....Hatchling tarantulas can starve to death in weeks...Starved hatchlings have a slower initial growth rate and a higher mortality rate....If you restrict their food when young, they will also not grow as large when they mature."

I kind of suspect that people restricting males food intake in an attempt to get them to mature later, may in fact actually just result in a smaller male come maturity (as is seen quite often). Just a thought, I have no basis in fact for this, but to me, it makes sense.

Adults of almost every species will simply refuse food when they are full. Its almost unheard of for a t of any size to eat its self to death.
 

Attachments

Poec54

Arachnoemperor
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
4,745
Well, I know they are arboreal so their home must be taller rather then move ground cover, temp should be about 70-75. provide plenty of things to climb on and make webs around. I picked some silk flower pieces with leaves. I was told by the breeder to LIGHTLY mist the soil to keep come humidity up and the he also told me that the drips of water on the plants and walls will provide water. Let the soil dry out between misting. When they get larger and more into adults that a can then safely provide a shallow water bowl. And they eat about once every 5 days, but never after a molt. Let the exoskeleton harden before feeding and never bug them after a molt. Over feeding can cause death, when I got Frodo and was asking about feeding the man told me they will engorge them selves if given to much. Am I missing anything important? Or was I told anything that is actually incorrect?
You have a beautiful, healthy spiderling. With proper conditions, Avics are very hardy, but they're not as flexible about that as many other tarantulas are.

- Avics need a little height, but don't require vertical cages. Some people get carried away and the spider is too far from it's food and water. 12" tall for an adult Avic cage is plenty. 16 oz cup for your sling is ideal for now.

- I keep my Avic slings, starting at 1/2", in 16 oz deli cups, with an inch of dry (not moist) substrate at the bottom, with 2 or 3 rows of small holes around the upper sides for cross ventilation. Decorations are a piece of plastic plant (Zoo Med vining type, cut to fit), and a small plastic water bowl (lid from a 16 oz water bottle). They won't drown in it. Yours needs a water bowl now.

- Easy on the misting, that's the single biggest killer of Avics. All the humidity they need is provided by the water bowl. I mist very lightly once a week, on the spiders silk sheet, nowhere else. that's for drinking, not humidity. These spiders live up in trees where there's breezes and things dry quickly after the rains. They need fresh air, and have respiratory problems when things are too humid and stuffy. Always best to err on being a little to dry with Avics, than a little too moist. You shouldn't have condensation. Don't mist the substrate.

- I don't use silk plants because of the dyes and fragrances. If you use them, soak them overnight. The more anchor points for spinning, the better. You don't want a stark cage.

- Avics will spin silk sheets/tubes at near the top of their cage (a happy Avic is one who's spun a home). I put several small crickets at a time in their cage. Because they're elevated, they can come down and grab a cricket when they're hungry, and the remaining crickets can't get up to the spider's silk and pester it. Avics will usually seal themselves in the silk homes when molting.

- When premolt they turn dark and dull with shiny abdominal skin, and won't eat. After molting give them a week before feeding again (2 weeks for adults). Then they'll eat voraciously. Feed them well. You can't overfeed them, they won't die from overeating. What does kill them is overmisting.

- I keep my Avics at 90 days/80 nights for 6 months (Florida!), and 75-80 days/70-75 nights the other half of the year. You don't need to keep yours this warm, but the warmer they are, the higher their metabolism, the more they eat, and the faster they grow. Growing fast does not cause problems. In the wild instinct tells them to eat a lot and grow fast so that they're not as vulnerable to as many predators, and so they can reproduce. The slow growers in the wild may never make it to adulthood.
 

Ultum4Spiderz

Arachnoemperor
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
Messages
4,503
Yeah My Ts grow a lot slower at room temp, high heat does make them grow quicker. I don't use heater unless temps dip under 65. Id keep m room hotter but Its my bedroom
 
Last edited:

CEC

Arachnoangel
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
952
What localities/species fall into each group?
From what I know these are the distinctive Avic slings.

Group1:
versicolor, laeta

Group2:
purpurea, sp. Ecuador, sp. Colombia

Group3:
minatrix

Group4:
diversipes

Group5:
hirschii

Group6:
sooretama

Group7:
sp. Peru

I have never seen a rickwesti sling, but I'm going to guess I'm going to need another group. ;)
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
17,819
From what I know these are the distinctive Avic slings.

Group1:
versicolor, laeta

Group2:
purpurea, sp. Ecuador, sp. Colombia

Group3:
minatrix

Group4:
diversipes

Group5:
hirschii

Group6:
sooretama

Group7:
sp. Peru

I have never seen a rickwesti sling, but I'm going to guess I'm going to need another group. ;)

SO laeta are blue like versicolor too? Other than minatrix and veris, I haven't seen the others as slings. My A sp Kwitara River def look different than my A metallica, A braun. and A huriana in terms of their color as slings, The huriana look the most different from all in my colllection as slings in that their background color is grey.
 
Top