1.25" Pelinobius Muticus Sling Burrowing To Kenya - Burrowing Question...

tbrandt

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Greetings,

Just was curious if anyone has ever experienced this with P.Muticus before and has any thoughts/suggestions on changes that might be needed to its enclosure. Any feedback is appreciated. This is my first experience with this species or with any obligate burrower. Sorry for the long post, just trying to be illustrative.

I have my 1.25 inch P.Muticus set up in a 32oz. Deli Cup with basically dry Eco Earth (coconut fiber) as a substrate. This is a lot of floor real estate for a sling this size, but it is the enclosure I had at the time and I figured it would be burrowing anyway.

I gave the sling about 4 inches (10cm) of substrate to work with, expecting it to enjoy establishing its own burrow. This substrate depth is about 4x its initial leg diameter. I gave it a 2cm starter hole to encourage it to settled in.

It settled in.

It completely excavated down to the bottom of the deli. Then removed all of the substrate lower inch inch all the way around the bottom of the deli. Then it started pulling additional material from the inch above this, making intricate tunnels that spiraled down to the bottom and completely clear bottom inch of the cup. This was all very cool to watch and I assumed it was a happy burrower doing its thing. Eating has been going well.

However, excavation never stopped - basically it digs anytime it isn't eating. Now it no longer has tunnels...just a single short tunnel from the surface down to the bottom two inches that opens into empty air.

It has piled all of the substrate from the bottom two inches of the cup, one load at a time on the surface level. Basically, aside from some scraps, it moved all of the dirt in the bottom two inches to the surface.

The Muticus now has 4 inches of substrate suspended 2 inches above its head. To reach its exit tunnel to the surface, it now has climb the deli wall, something it can do, but has difficulty with. It occasionally falls from this position. It seems like the spider is trying to dig itself out of a hole.

Basically, my question: has my Muticus "painted" itself into an unhealthy corner? It no longer has the same cover as when it had a burrow of tunnels. Is the clear deli causing stress and stimulating a burrowing instinct response? I hate to think I am over reacting, but I am wondering if the overkill on the digging is a sign of stress. Also, there is a decent chance that sometime 4" of substrate is going to fall to fill in the open space beneath it. I know these guys are hardy and can take a collapsed burrow most of the time, but it seems like a lot for a sling.

Thanks for any thoughts you can offer.
 

Ivymike1973

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Mine is about 3"DLS and I have her in an ant farm type enclosure that is about 18" deep by 24 long by about 4" wide. I set up a false bottom with pea gravel so I can introduce water through a tube to the bottom so there is more humidity at the bottom and less at the top. She burrowed all the way to the bottom and even excavated some of the gravel in the first week or so but she hasn't burrowed any since then.

Bottom line, I would definitely giving yours a much deeper substrate to burrow in.
Floor area doesn't seem to mean much as they spend almost all their time in the burrow, although she does hang out at the entrance when she is hungry.

Also, she was super defensive when I first got her but once I gave her plenty of room to burrow she is actually fairly mellow now.
 

Poec54

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That's what muticus does. I put an adult female in a 20 gallon tall tank, mostly filled up with soil. It quickly dug down to the bottom and stayed there most of the time. On flat surfaces muticus aren't as fast or as graceful as most other T's, with their oversize rear legs and small front legs. But in a vertical burrow, they're able to zip up and down with ease. That's what they've evolved to live in.
 

Ultum4Spiderz

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That's what muticus does. I put an adult female in a 20 gallon tall tank, mostly filled up with soil. It quickly dug down to the bottom and stayed there most of the time. On flat surfaces muticus aren't as fast or as graceful as most other T's, with their oversize rear legs and small front legs. But in a vertical burrow, they're able to zip up and down with ease. That's what they've evolved to live in.
Are there oversize rear legs? Are they some of the biggest Legs on tarantulas they look huge. So do they eat big prey is that why they are so bulky? or do big legs help with digging & quickly moving in burrow?
 
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tbrandt

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Thanks for the reply. I will work on preparing a deeper enclosure for the spiderling. I like the idea for the false bottom to moisten the substrate from below.

Mine is about 3"DLS and I have her in an ant farm type enclosure that is about 18" deep by 24 long by about 4" wide. I set up a false bottom with pea gravel so I can introduce water through a tube to the bottom so there is more humidity at the bottom and less at the top. She burrowed all the way to the bottom and even excavated some of the gravel in the first week or so but she hasn't burrowed any since then.

Bottom line, I would definitely giving yours a much deeper substrate to burrow in.
Floor area doesn't seem to mean much as they spend almost all their time in the burrow, although she does hang out at the entrance when she is hungry.

Also, she was super defensive when I first got her but once I gave her plenty of room to burrow she is actually fairly mellow now.


---------- Post added 11-25-2014 at 05:43 PM ----------

Thanks Poec54, I appreciate the feedback and the assurance.

I knew that it would be a voracious burrower, but clearly underestimated. I will increase the ratio of substrate depth to spider size from 4" to something more like 8".

That's what muticus does. I put an adult female in a 20 gallon tall tank, mostly filled up with soil. It quickly dug down to the bottom and stayed there most of the time. On flat surfaces muticus aren't as fast or as graceful as most other T's, with their oversize rear legs and small front legs. But in a vertical burrow, they're able to zip up and down with ease. That's what they've evolved to live in.
 

tonypace2009

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I have always figured a tarantula digging to be a good sighn. They are making there selves at home.
 

cold blood

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Greetings,

Just was curious if anyone has ever experienced this with P.Muticus before and has any thoughts/suggestions on changes that might be needed to its enclosure. Any feedback is appreciated. This is my first experience with this species or with any obligate burrower. Sorry for the long post, just trying to be illustrative.

I have my 1.25 inch P.Muticus set up in a 32oz. Deli Cup with basically dry Eco Earth (coconut fiber) as a substrate. This is a lot of floor real estate for a sling this size, but it is the enclosure I had at the time and I figured it would be burrowing anyway.

I gave the sling about 4 inches (10cm) of substrate to work with, expecting it to enjoy establishing its own burrow. This substrate depth is about 4x its initial leg diameter. I gave it a 2cm starter hole to encourage it to settled in.

It settled in.

It completely excavated down to the bottom of the deli. Then removed all of the substrate lower inch inch all the way around the bottom of the deli. Then it started pulling additional material from the inch above this, making intricate tunnels that spiraled down to the bottom and completely clear bottom inch of the cup. This was all very cool to watch and I assumed it was a happy burrower doing its thing. Eating has been going well.

However, excavation never stopped - basically it digs anytime it isn't eating. Now it no longer has tunnels...just a single short tunnel from the surface down to the bottom two inches that opens into empty air.

It has piled all of the substrate from the bottom two inches of the cup, one load at a time on the surface level. Basically, aside from some scraps, it moved all of the dirt in the bottom two inches to the surface.

The Muticus now has 4 inches of substrate suspended 2 inches above its head. To reach its exit tunnel to the surface, it now has climb the deli wall, something it can do, but has difficulty with. It occasionally falls from this position. It seems like the spider is trying to dig itself out of a hole.

Basically, my question: has my Muticus "painted" itself into an unhealthy corner? It no longer has the same cover as when it had a burrow of tunnels. Is the clear deli causing stress and stimulating a burrowing instinct response? I hate to think I am over reacting, but I am wondering if the overkill on the digging is a sign of stress. Also, there is a decent chance that sometime 4" of substrate is going to fall to fill in the open space beneath it. I know these guys are hardy and can take a collapsed burrow most of the time, but it seems like a lot for a sling.

Thanks for any thoughts you can offer.
I fail to see what you are even reacting to....just standard operating procedure for P. muticus. My little 3/4"er does the exact same thing, it will dig as deep and as much as your container will allow.

When mine gets larger I plan on keeping it in a very deep enclosure filled with substrate and just let it work its magic. The tunneling aspect of this species is what really drew me to them. Its really spectacular to see what a busy t is capable of.
 

Poec54

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Are there oversize rear legs? So do they eat big prey is that why they are so bulky? or do big legs help with digging & quickly moving in burrow?
Look at pics of adult females and compare front and rear legs. With most T's, the front legs are the thickest and longest.

They may eat a fair percentage of small vertebrates in the wild, and size could help with that. Being stocky allows them to hold more fluids internally, and be more drought resistant.
 

Ultum4Spiderz

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Look at pics of adult females and compare front and rear legs. With most T's, the front legs are the thickest and longest.

They may eat a fair percentage of small vertebrates in the wild, and size could help with that. Being stocky allows them to hold more fluids internally, and be more drought resistant.
OW Baboons Ts are generally a lot stockier than new world Ts, with the exception of goliath and other giant south american Ts. I didn't notice how small blacklegs of normal Ts are either OW T's are very impressive.
 

Poec54

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OW T's are very impressive.
Yes they are. Having urticating hairs as a passive defensive has allowed a number of NW species to get fat and lazy. OW's on average are more industrious, digging and spinning impressive homes. There's some determined predators they have to deal with, like mongeese, honey badgers, and baboons, who take a large toll on them. Without the benefit of hairs, they have to be able to run or fight at a moment's notice. None of this loafing around and leisurely kicking hairs when something gets too close.
 

Ultum4Spiderz

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Yes they are. Having urticating hairs as a passive defensive has allowed a number of NW species to get fat and lazy. OW's on average are more industrious, digging and spinning impressive homes. There's some determined predators they have to deal with, like mongeese, honey badgers, and baboons, who take a large toll on them. Without the benefit of hairs, they have to be able to run or fight at a moment's notice. None of this loafing around and leisurely kicking hairs when something gets too close.
I heard honey badgers can take on almost anything, they are tough as nails...Urt hairs wouldn't save a T probably.
 

Poec54

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I heard honey badgers can take on almost anything, they are tough as nails...Urt hairs wouldn't save a T probably.
Probably not, except for Theraphosa. Without hairs, it's a brutal life for many OW tarantulas. If they weren't as fast and feisty as they are, they wouldn't be around today.
 

Ultum4Spiderz

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Probably not, except for Theraphosa. Without hairs, it's a brutal life for many OW tarantulas. If they weren't as fast and feisty as they are, they wouldn't be around today.
+1 You going to make a book like Stan schultz? I bet you have kept way way more species than him. He has sceintific knowledge but you have kept Ts he never owned , he sold off his collection.
Nhandu hairs are pretty devastating also, and Lasiodora. Theraphosa do rank #1 for hairs though , OW are lightning fast your right if not they would not survive. Pokies blend in with tree bark also.
 

Poec54

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+1 You going to make a book like Stan schultz? I bet you have kept way way more species than him. He has sceintific knowledge but you have kept Ts he never owned , he sold off his collection.
Nhandu hairs are pretty devastating also, and Lasiodora. Theraphosa do rank #1 for hairs though , OW are lightning fast your right if not they would not survive. Pokies blend in with tree bark also.
If you've kept Asian terrestrials, you know how fast many of them are. That's for defense, not offense. Theraphosa hairs have been known to inflame rodent nasal passages so much that they suffocate. Getting a face full of them is going to discourage all but the most determined predators.

Tarantula species tend to make it to Europe first, then the US, then years later to Canada, maybe because of the size of the markets. There was a number of new species (mostly NW) that came to the US from Europe as CBB slings in the late 1990's and early 2000's. They were slowly making their way to Canada when Stan sold off his collection in the mid 2000's so he could travel. That's around the time that a much larger wave of new species came from Europe that included many OW's. 20 years ago, w/c adults were a large part of the hobby in the US and CBB slings were starting to get popular. With the surge in popularity of tarantulas, there's also been a lot of work done with breeding and taxonomy. This is a great time to be collecting spiders.

Stan was one of the hobby pioneers, and got his first tarantulas back in the late 1960's. I got my first in 1973, and within months started building a collection. There were several species commonly sold in pet stores by the mid 1970's, the dominant one being B smithi. The others were B albopilosum, P cancerides, and a grey form of A seemani from Guatemala. Because a friend of mine was a reptile dealer/importer (and landlord and Detroit policeman, all at the same time), I was able to accumulate a total of about 15 species back then, which was huge. The only old world then was Ornithoctonus aureotibialis, and the only arboreal was Avic avic. I never was able to find anyone in Michigan who collected them. No one bred spiders, and you wouldn't have been able to give away the slings. I bred and hatched out Avic avic in the late 1970's.

By the mid 1990's, demand was increasing and there were more species being imported as w/c adults by reptile dealers: several Pamphos, A seemani (blue form), T blondi, Mega robustum, Mega mesomalas, X immanis, H lividum, Hystero gigas, P murinus (brown/green form), P chordatus, C darlingi, C marshalli, E pachypus, P muticus, H maculata, etc. The first Poecs came into the US as CBB from Europe (regalis, fasciata, ornata, formosa, and subfusca). People were beginning to see how much variety there was in the family, and the hobby hasn't slowed down since then.
 

Formerphobe

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I got my first P. muticus as a 1.0" sling in October 2012. Kept him in a deli cup with a couple of inches of substrate. He was not pleased. Cranky, didn't eat, constantly rearranging his burrows. After 3 months, I 'over'housed him into an approximately 3 gallon container with a fair amount of floor space and about 4 inches of firmly packed substrate. He immediately burrowed, started eating regularly and seemed much less stressed. He continues to periodically rearrange his burrows and has been growing like a weed. After his last molt in August of this year, he is now 4+ inches.

I recently received a 6" female. Placed her in a 10 gallon tank 3/4 packed with substrate and a prefab burrow which she took to immediately. She settled in nicely and has a regular 'hang-out' at the base of the burrow entrance, but has extended the burrow almost all the way around the tank. Her excavated substrate piles nearly reach the the top of the enclosure.

They burrow. It's what they do. Their burrow systems are a continual work in progress. They'll use the entire amount of space allotted them. I use a mixture of substrate (top soil, sphagnum peat, potting soil) that holds burrows much better than coconut coir. The more firmly packed the substrate is, the better it will hold the burrow, also, with less chance of collapse.
 

tbrandt

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Thanks Formerphobe, I appreciate your input. I will consider using a different mixture of substrate with the next, deeper, enclosure.

It wasn't that I didn't expect a lot of burrowing...I just thought it would be more like a maze of spider sized tunnels. I did some research before I ordered this little King and knew that I was getting a prolific burrower, a behavior that I appreciate and find fascinating. This burrow is less like a maze of tunnels and more like the giant chamber in Moria (Lord of the Rings reference) where the Balrog is first encountered - huge open space with high ceiling.

Thankfully, the little dude doesn't seem to have any problem with chowing on 1/4 inch roaches, which I take as a sign of relative emotional comfort. I didn't really expect a finicky feeding response from the Muticus however. My concern was that he/she cleared so much from the bottom of the deli that there is almost no substrate for the bottom two inches - just open space - and seems to have made more difficult the task of getting to the surface. Collapse is also a concern - which a better substrate mixture and a small bit of bottom up moisture will probably help with.

I will work out a deeper container one with greater than 4:1 depth to legspan ratio and consider a substrate change. Meanwhile, everyone's comments have set my mind at ease somewhat.

Thanks again!

I got my first P. muticus as a 1.0" sling in October 2012. Kept him in a deli cup with a couple of inches of substrate. He was not pleased. Cranky, didn't eat, constantly rearranging his burrows. After 3 months, I 'over'housed him into an approximately 3 gallon container with a fair amount of floor space and about 4 inches of firmly packed substrate. He immediately burrowed, started eating regularly and seemed much less stressed. He continues to periodically rearrange his burrows and has been growing like a weed. After his last molt in August of this year, he is now 4+ inches.

I recently received a 6" female. Placed her in a 10 gallon tank 3/4 packed with substrate and a prefab burrow which she took to immediately. She settled in nicely and has a regular 'hang-out' at the base of the burrow entrance, but has extended the burrow almost all the way around the tank. Her excavated substrate piles nearly reach the the top of the enclosure.

They burrow. It's what they do. Their burrow systems are a continual work in progress. They'll use the entire amount of space allotted them. I use a mixture of substrate (top soil, sphagnum peat, potting soil) that holds burrows much better than coconut coir. The more firmly packed the substrate is, the better it will hold the burrow, also, with less chance of collapse.


---------- Post added 11-26-2014 at 04:31 PM ----------

Maybe its difficult to envision the situation based on my description. It is also entirely possible that I am worrying myself over nothing. Again, I full expected extensive burrowing, but expected tunnels.

Instead, the spiderling has removed ALL substrate from the bottom two inches of the deli. Imagine a cup - the bottom two inches are filled with air, the next 4 inches are filled with substrate (with one small tube leading to the surface), and then there is about an inch and a half before the top edge of the deli cup.

I just wondered if I should read this non-stop removal of all substrate, creating a giant (probably 40 times the volume of the sling itself) chamber at the bottom was a sign of stress. Again, I could just be worrying too much.

Thanks for weighing in.

I fail to see what you are even reacting to....just standard operating procedure for P. muticus. My little 3/4"er does the exact same thing, it will dig as deep and as much as your container will allow.

When mine gets larger I plan on keeping it in a very deep enclosure filled with substrate and just let it work its magic. The tunneling aspect of this species is what really drew me to them. Its really spectacular to see what a busy t is capable of.
 

Formerphobe

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My P muticus never affected the substrate/air parfait look, but I've had other Ts do that. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
 
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