article: tarantulas are latest cash crop for nicaraguan farmers

keeper2013

Arachnopeon
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Mar 18, 2013
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This has been going on for years. Most collectors know this. Probably 80% of the G porteri and rosea in the pet shops and pet trade are wild caught.
 

Disquiet

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Nov 2, 2013
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IMO this is how "rescuing" tarantulas at pet shops can be insidiously harmful. Yes, you save that one and give it a good life, but you also support the cycle that put the tarantula there in the first place, causing more to be caught to replace it.

I'm using "you" in the generic sense here, and I'm not saying I wouldn't do it myself either..
 

Poec54

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IMO this is how "rescuing" tarantulas at pet shops can be insidiously harmful. Yes, you save that one and give it a good life, but you also support the cycle that put the tarantula there in the first place, causing more to be caught to replace it. .
That theory is wrong. Wild caught tarantulas have been in the pet trade since the 1960's, and show no sign of letting up. Big spiders bring in floor traffic, and while those people may not buy a spider, they usually buy something for one of their pets at home. At the wholesale level tarantulas are cheap, and more than pay for themselves by the increased business they generate. They're inexpensive for the store to replace if they die. Any boycotts or protests as you suggested, are symbolic and useless. Hasn't accomplish anything yet in 50 years.

One of the misconceptions is that tarantulas are safe in the wild, but with habitat destruction and locals usually killing them on sight, they're not faring all that well in many countries. Better that they be caught and exported, than to die when forests and fields are cut and burned.

On this forum we know a lot more about spiders than the average person. We need to share that with the public and educate them. Talk to the employees and manager, in a non-confrontational way. Tell them you didn't know how to keep them until you went to this web site. Spiders will continue to be imported; walking away and thinking you're accomplishing anything is pure fantasy. Get involved, save some lives. They're here, they'll keep coming. Do something that makes a difference.
 

cold blood

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I learned something new rom that article....t's should be kept on sawdust....and the best, t's secrete a toxic goo....wtf?

I am curious though, they say the new business is "Exotic Fauna", and I am familiar with that name....is this a Mike Jacobi run business or is the name just coincidence?
 

keeper2013

Arachnopeon
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Mar 18, 2013
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I learned something new rom that article....t's should be kept on sawdust....and the best, t's secrete a toxic goo....wtf?

I am curious though, they say the new business is "Exotic Fauna", and I am familiar with that name....is this a Mike Jacobi run business or is the name just coincidence?
I thought that was very funny too when I read it, and it could very well be Jacobi. Thats part of the problem. If a dealer can make a connection to buy 100s of Ts for .75 to $1 each and sell them for $12 to $25 you know he's going to do it. Money talks. If, and I know this will never happen because of Money, but if dealers would atleast limit themselves to a small import of WC and go after CB it would be better. "IF" breeders would "take one for the team" and sell slings for $5, 2 for $5, something no-one can pass up, people might go that way and put a real hurt on the WC trade. They are hard to breed yes, but it's done and it's done alot. I have a porteri that I hope is gravid now and another I will be pairing. Any slings I get to 2nd or 3rd instar I will offer them at $5 each. They cost me next to nothing to get them that far. If breeders would sell slings for that and sub adults for maybe $7-8 it might stop someone from paying $25 for a WC.
 

Sana

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That's a thought. Though poec54 has a point about them probably not being any safer in their natural habitat.
 

Ultum4Spiderz

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Yeah T prices always have been too high in petstores , I rarely buy any Ts from my LPS. Both my G rosea/porteri however I think are wc, one was free other one I bought,. My pinktoe is also from petstore.

Shame us hobbyists cannot buy them wholesale $1ea at-least we can take care of them unlike LPS.
 

keeper2013

Arachnopeon
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That's a thought. Though poec54 has a point about them probably not being any safer in their natural habitat.
Yes, I agree habitat destruction is a huge problem. But I would rather see one die in its own habitat than in a box being shipped to the US, or die in a pet shop or at the hands of an impulse buyer. The import is not going to stop, no matter what we all wish. In a years time 100's and 100's will die that might not if left alone. These countries and the importers are not going to let a cash cow go.
 

Ultum4Spiderz

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Yes, I agree habitat destruction is a huge problem. But I would rather see one die in its own habitat than in a box being shipped to the US, or die in a pet shop or at the hands of an impulse buyer. The import is not going to stop, no matter what we all wish. In a years time 100's and 100's will die that might not if left alone. These countries and the importers are not going to let a cash cow go.
Shame they go to LPS I am sure there are enough hobbyists to buy them all wholesale. And we can care for them way better, than any LPS.
 

Poec54

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Yes, I agree habitat destruction is a huge problem. But I would rather see one die in its own habitat than in a box being shipped to the US, or die in a pet shop or at the hands of an impulse buyer. The import is not going to stop, no matter what we all wish. In a years time 100's and 100's will die that might not if left alone. These countries and the importers are not going to let a cash cow go.
I'd rather not see them die at all. They will continue to be brought into the country. Look at how well we've been able to stop the flow of drugs. Spiders aren't nearly the 'cash cow' drugs are, but it's an easy way for them to make a little money in a poverty stricken country. Where are all these smuggled imports? Most are not going directly to pet stores, as they can't buy in quantity. They'd have to be going to a small number of dealers. Has anyone here seen Nicaraguan spiders in pet stores? I think there's some exaggeration in that article.

Regardless, we can either close our eyes and pretend it'll all go away, or we can save the ones that are here. Habitat destruction is killing far more than the pet trade. Some may have a better chance of survival in captivity. As hobbyists, our job is to teach the public about these animals and how to care for them. Get involved and make a difference.

As far as dealer prices, they're high because they carry a big selection of a lot of spiderlings, that usually means rent on a building, employees, taxes, insurance, cages/containers, shelves, and mounds of crickets. There's a lot of overhead in being able to offer a selection of spiders to us collectors. When we buy a spider from one person, and another spider from another person, the shipping costs kill us. That's why having a big selection is a definite advantage. If they 'take one for the team' they can't stay in business. They're trying to make a living at this. Without big dealers, there wouldn't be nearly as many spiders in this country, and prices would be much higher than they are now. So much for that plan.

Another thing you missed in your calculations is that the market for w/c's is primarily pet stores, and they can't sell many 1/2" slings to the public, and certainly not for the same price as a 5" spider. They can buy wild caught adults wholesale for under $10, roseas for a couple dollars. They'd laugh at your slow-growing little $5 porter slings. Your plan for putting a 'real hurt' on w/c imports isn't going to happen in the real world. "Breeders sell porteri subadults for $7-8'? After putting years into growing them up to that size? Another pipe dream.

Even if w/c's were totally banned, how can anyone tell if an adult/subadult/juvenile spider was CBB or w/c? Because of that they'll still be brought in and sold. The only way to stop imports is to completely ban tarantula ownership and vigorously enforce it. That brings us back to reality and helping the spiders that are here, and educating people and stores.
 

Tim Benzedrine

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Toxic goo?

And that, folks, is why one should never keep tarantulas and turtles in the same room. First thing you know, you have a bunch of ninja turtles running around, scarfing up all your pizza.
 

telepatella

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Dec 22, 2012
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The media are :poop:. Let this be a lesson to all, especially nowadays - that news is rarely accurate, so, whatever you read, hear or see in the media know this: YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE TRUE STORY. Journalism is a job like any other, people cut corners, fudge and fib; get lazy or bored or just do a crappy job- like any other job (and that's journalism on their best day, their regular day they are spastic hyperbolists). The rag this article came from is total :poop:. I mean this as no disrespect to OP, but this post should die from a lack of attention. We know better that the non-caring idiot who wrote this :poop: It's a shame I cannot italicize :poop: for emfeces. Voila
 
Last edited:

keeper2013

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
39
The media are :poop:. Let this be a lesson to all, especially nowadays - that news is rarely accurate, so, whatever you read, hear or see in the media know this: YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE TRUE STORY. Journalism is a job like any other, people cut corners, fudge and fib; get lazy or bored or just do a crappy job- like any other job (and that's journalism on their best day, their regular day they are spastic hyperbolists). The rag this article came from is total :poop:. I mean this as no disrespect to OP, but this post should die from a lack of attention. We know better that the non-caring idiot who wrote this :poop: It's a shame I cannot italicize :poop:. Voila

You saying you don't believe this is going on??

---------- Post added 11-30-2014 at 07:22 PM ----------

I'd rather not see them die at all. They will continue to be brought into the country. Look at how well we've been able to stop the flow of drugs. Spiders aren't nearly the 'cash cow' drugs are, but it's an easy way for them to make a little money in a poverty stricken country. Where are all these smuggled imports? Most are not going directly to pet stores, as they can't buy in quantity. They'd have to be going to a small number of dealers. Has anyone here seen Nicaraguan spiders in pet stores? I think there's some exaggeration in that article.

Regardless, we can either close our eyes and pretend it'll all go away, or we can save the ones that are here. Habitat destruction is killing far more than the pet trade. Some may have a better chance of survival in captivity. As hobbyists, our job is to teach the public about these animals and how to care for them. Get involved and make a difference.

As far as dealer prices, they're high because they carry a big selection of a lot of spiderlings, that usually means rent on a building, employees, taxes, insurance, cages/containers, shelves, and mounds of crickets. There's a lot of overhead in being able to offer a selection of spiders to us collectors. When we buy a spider from one person, and another spider from another person, the shipping costs kill us. That's why having a big selection is a definite advantage. If they 'take one for the team' they can't stay in business. They're trying to make a living at this. Without big dealers, there wouldn't be nearly as many spiders in this country, and prices would be much higher than they are now. So much for that plan.

Another thing you missed in your calculations is that the market for w/c's is primarily pet stores, and they can't sell many 1/2" slings to the public, and certainly not for the same price as a 5" spider. They can buy wild caught adults wholesale for under $10, roseas for a couple dollars. They'd laugh at your slow-growing little $5 porter slings. Your plan for putting a 'real hurt' on w/c imports isn't going to happen in the real world. "Breeders sell porteri subadults for $7-8'? After putting years into growing them up to that size? Another pipe dream.

Even if w/c's were totally banned, how can anyone tell if an adult/subadult/juvenile spider was CBB or w/c? Because of that they'll still be brought in and sold. The only way to stop imports is to completely ban tarantula ownership and vigorously enforce it. That brings us back to reality and helping the spiders that are here, and educating people and stores.
Pretty much disagree with everything but thats just me. Off the subject but what was going on with a recent post about you, that was deleted the same day. Sounded like someone was really upset.
 

Poec54

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Pretty much disagree with everything but thats just me.
Feel free to disagree. I've been in the hobby for over 40 years, and have known a number of dealers, importers, pet shop owners, breeders, and collectors. You're heart's in a good place, but you have no idea of how the hobby works, especially behind the scenes. Dream all you want, but it's going to take tangible solutions to improve things, and none of your suggestions have a prayer of ever being implemented, for a number of real world reasons.
 

keeper2013

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
39
Feel free to disagree. I've been in the hobby for over 40 years, and have known a number of dealers, importers, pet shop owners, breeders, and collectors. You're heart's in a good place, but you have no idea of how the hobby works, especially behind the scenes. Dream all you want, but it's going to take tangible solutions to improve things, and none of your suggestions have a prayer of ever being implemented, for a number of real world reasons.
When I grow up I hope I know as much real word inside information and I'm as smart. I'll be sure to let people know I'm right, they are wrong. I see now what that other post was talking about.. Moms calling I have to go to bed.
 
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