Chaco not eating after ICU

quiroga · Dec 27, 2014

Hi I have this Chaco, she's about 5 years old. I just put her into ICU for 48 hrs after showing signs of dehydration (death curl).
She's fine now, or so I think. SHe doesn't do this curl anymore but still she's lethargic. She already made webs on the enclosure.
What bothers me is she still doesn't eat. I tried live and dead c She's well over 24 hours now back into her original enclosure.
I'm quite sure she's not in premolt by the way. Here are some photos that might help.

Beary Strange · Dec 27, 2014

G.pulchripes prefer dry conditions, so by putting her in wet conditions (even if you did it for the right reasons) you've basically turned off her appetite. But if her rump isn't small or shriveled and you've given her access to water, not eating a cricket or two isn't a big deal. A picture of both her and her set-up could help identify any issues.

quiroga · Dec 27, 2014

Thanks for replying. I have uploaded a photo above (still trying to upload others but there seems to be a problem). I only put her in a wet setup (ICU) because she was curling. But now she's back
to the dry setup.

Beary Strange · Dec 27, 2014

quiroga said:
Thanks for replying. I have uploaded a photo above (still trying to upload others but there seems to be a problem). I only put her in a wet setup (ICU) because she was curling. But now she's back
to the dry setup.

I understand that, but she still was in wet conditions. Give her some time. Her rump doesn't look like she's in any danger. That's not her enclosure is it?

quiroga · Dec 27, 2014

Belle Fury said:
I understand that, but she still was in wet conditions. Give her some time. Her rump doesn't look like she's in any danger. That's not her enclosure is it?

It is her enclosure. I have yet to setup a bigger one. Been using this critter keeper for 3 years already. hehe New photos uploaded

Poec54 · Dec 27, 2014

Belle Fury said:
I understand that, but she still was in wet conditions. Give her some time. Her rump doesn't look like she's in any danger. That's not her enclosure is it?

+1. Seems like a small cage for her size. It should have a water bowl too, along with dry substrate. Where are the airholes? They should be around the upper sides.

quiroga · Dec 27, 2014

Poec54 said:
+1. Seems like a small cage for her size. It should have a water bowl too, along with dry substrate. Where are the airholes? They should be around the upper sides.

I'll be moving her into a bigger one next week once I move out from my place.

Beary Strange · Dec 27, 2014

quiroga said:
It is her enclosure. I have yet to setup a bigger one. Been using this critter keeper for 3 years already. hehe New photos uploaded

Not sure 'hehe' is appropriate in these circumstances. That 'set-up' is not remotely acceptable and looks like something you'd find in a pet shop. At least three times her DLS in any direction (and that would still be somewhat small) and she NEEDS access to a water dish. Enclosures aren't expensive. If she's been in this for 3 years it's no wonder she was death curling...

14pokies · Dec 27, 2014

I don't know that I would blame dehydration.. These guys are from dry climates. The g.pulchripes i owned filled there bowls with substrate religiously to the point i only offered water bi weekly. I would look for other reasons that it started to kick.it looks really stressed to me.is there anything else that you can think of that can be affecting the t? Pesticides,high heat etc etc?.what are your temps? When was the last time it had water before the ICU? When was the last time it molted? If that's its enclosure some changes need to be made..

quiroga · Dec 27, 2014

Belle Fury said:
Not sure 'hehe' is appropriate in these circumstances. That 'set-up' is not remotely acceptable and looks like something you'd find in a pet shop. At least three times her DLS in any direction (and that would still be somewhat small) and she NEEDS access to a water dish. Enclosures aren't expensive. If she's been in this for 3 years it's no wonder she was death curling...

Ok I'll take note of that. She got dehydrated because the person I left her with didn't the job well, so, my fault. I'm trying to right the wrongs now that's why I'm seeking help

---------- Post added 12-28-2014 at 12:05 PM ----------

14pokies said:
I don't know that I would blame dehydration.. These guys are from dry climates. The g.pulchripes i owned filled there bowls with substrate religiously to the point i only offered water bi weekly. I would look for other reasons that it started to kick.it looks really stressed to me.is there anything else that you can think of that can be affecting the t? Pesticides,high heat etc etc?.what are your temps? When was the last time it had water before the ICU? When was the last time it molted? If that's its enclosure some changes need to be made..

Temps during the day would reach 30degC and about 23degC at night. I'm quite sure she was dehydrated because of the curling. I don't remember when she had her last molt and water and/or food since I was out of town for 8 months and left it with an irresponsible(unfortunately) person. The enclosure will be changed in the next week since I have yet to move out from my current place.

14pokies · Dec 27, 2014

quiroga said:
Ok I'll take note of that. She got dehydrated because the person I left her with didn't the job well, so, my fault. I'm trying to right the wrongs now that's why I'm seeking help

---------- Post added 12-28-2014 at 12:05 PM ----------

Tempe s during the day would reach 30degC and about 23degC at night. I'm quite sure she was dehydrated because of the curling. I don't remember when she had her last molt and water and/or food since I was out of town for 8 months and left it with an irresponsible(unfortunately) person. The enclosure will be changed in the next week since I have yet to move out from my current place.

8 months of neglect will kill the hardiest of ts!!!!!find a more responsible sitter the next time.. 86f is about 6 degree's hotter than my room ever gets..if you could get her down to a high of 75-80day and 65-70 night she would be much better off. Get her a hide and water dish asap..she really needs a bigger enclosure with a hide,water dish and 5+ inches of substrate..it doesn't have to be an expensive glass enclosure it can be a big tote from Walmart with some vent holes burned or drilled through the side and top..it will cost about $5 dollars.

---------- Post added 12-27-2014 at 11:24 PM ----------

Ts don't death curl just from being dehydrated BTW ts curl like that no matter what the cause of death is.(although I don't disagree that that is what caused it in conjunction with a lack of food)
If she doesn't eat in a few days try crickets..ts generally prefer them to super worms..don't leave the super worm in over night..it will either burrow or just stress her out or both..they have also been known to chew on molting and weakend ts..
I hope you can bring this girl back..it would be a shame to lose a beautiful t to simple neglect. Good luck!

cold blood · Dec 28, 2014

death curl

If those pics are showing your t's "death curl", you're mistaken or confused as to what it looks like..

As for it not eating instantly, well that's not exactly a cause for concern...it may in about a year though.

+1 to bell's post.

Go to the dollar store, drop a whole buck and upgrade that enclosure pronto. More room, deeper sub, add a hide and a water dish.

quiroga · Dec 28, 2014

cold blood said:
If those pics are showing your t's "death curl", you're mistaken or confused as to what it looks like..

As for it not eating instantly, well that's not exactly a cause for concern...it may in about a year though.

+1 to bell's post.

Go to the dollar store, drop a whole buck and upgrade that enclosure pronto. More room, deeper sub, add a hide and a water dish.

No, that is not her curling. This was taken after the ICU. Yup, I will upgrade the enclosure.

viper69 · Dec 29, 2014

14pokies said:
Ts don't death curl just from being dehydrated BTW ts curl like that no matter what the cause of death is.

Actually that's not exactly true. I had a T die and there was no death curl.

The death curl is due to their anatomy and physiology, particularly their legs and the locations of their muscles, and lack of muscles in other parts of their legs. You may know what I'm referring to, if not, you should look it up, it's QUITE interesting.

14pokies · Dec 30, 2014

viper69 said:
Actually that's not exactly true. I had a T die and there was no death curl.

The death curl is due to their anatomy and physiology, particularly their legs and the locations of their muscles, and lack of muscles in other parts of their legs. You may know what I'm referring to, if not, you should look it up, it's QUITE interesting.

I agree it was a generalization that I guess I shouldn't have made sound so definitive.I once had a p.miranda die on a branch in her enclosure sometime during the night and she was sprawled out when I found her.I should of said that about 99% of the time ts curl when they die..the same as most of the time they molt on there back,but not always!
I just thought it was odd that an arid species was curling because of a lack of water and that the op shouldn't rule out other causes.

Poec54 · Dec 30, 2014

When I've lost T's pre and post molt, they haven't been in death curls. Death curls are usually related to a lack of bodily fluids and they don't have the hydraulic pressure to keep their legs extended.

viper69 · Dec 30, 2014

14pokies said:
I agree it was a generalization that I guess I shouldn't have made sound so definitive.I once had a p.miranda die on a branch in her enclosure sometime during the night and she was sprawled out when I found her.I should of said that about 99% of the time ts curl when they die..the same as most of the time they molt on there back,but not always!
I just thought it was odd that an arid species was curling because of a lack of water and that the op shouldn't rule out other causes.

It's not odd at all if it doesn't have enough water. See below for the specific info I was hoping not to type.

---------- Post added 12-30-2014 at 08:41 AM ----------

Poec54 said:
When I've lost T's pre and post molt, they haven't been in death curls. Death curls are usually related to a lack of bodily fluids and they don't have the hydraulic pressure to keep their legs extended.

Actually there is more to it than that, Ts only have leg muscles on the medial portions of their legs, the lateral portions of their legs do not have muscles. As a result, when they lack fluid, the muscles result in the legs curling towards the body due to lack of hydraulic pressure to keep them extended. If they didn't have muscles in their legs at all, then the curling wouldn't happen.

14pokies · Dec 30, 2014

viper69 said:
It's not odd at all if it doesn't have enough water. See below for the specific info I was hoping not to type.

---------- Post added 12-30-2014 at 08:41 AM ----------

Actually there is more to it than that, Ts only have leg muscles on the medial portions of their legs, the lateral portions of their legs do not have muscles. As a result, when they lack fluid, the muscles result in the legs curling towards the body due to lack of hydraulic pressure to keep them extended. If they didn't have muscles in their legs at all, then the curling wouldn't happen.

What I was saying was odd is that dehydration was the #1 suspected cause of an arid land t curling up,when it could of been a number of things causing it to shut down( i thought i reiderated that train of thought in an earlier post)high heat pesticides extreme cold? Or are you trying to say that ts only curl when they die from dehydration? If that's the case than I guess we can assume that almost all ts die from dehydration,..right?
My take is that many things cause ts to perish and in the process of dying,the body keeps the hemolymph in the cephalothorax and opithstoma,maybe as a self preservation switch keeping the organs going as long as possible or possibly the animal is weakend to the extent that it can no longer pump hemolymph to the legs..in either case I have a general understanding of the physical t..you didn't have to write all of that but thank you.

---------- Post added 12-30-2014 at 09:21 PM ----------

14pokies said:
What I was saying was odd is that dehydration was the #1 suspected cause of an arid land t curling up,when it could of been a number of things causing it to shut down( i thought i reiderated that train of thought in an earlier post)high heat pesticides extreme cold? Or are you trying to say that ts only curl when they die from dehydration? If that's the case than I guess we can assume that almost all ts die from dehydration,..right?
My take is that many things cause ts to perish and in the process of dying,the body keeps the hemolymph in the cephalothorax and opithstoma,maybe as a self preservation switch keeping the organs going as long as possible or possibly the animal is weakend to the extent that it can no longer pump hemolymph to the legs..in either case I have a general understanding of the physical t..you didn't have to write all of that but thank you.

I hope that someone will come on here and tell me toxins don't cause the typical death curl and only lack of fluids cause it..I had close to 200 perfectly healthy well hydrated ts death curl from a natural gas leak in my house! So yaaaa..I would love to debate the topic

viper69 · Dec 31, 2014

14pokies said:
What I was saying was odd is that dehydration was the #1 suspected cause of an arid land t curling up,when it could of been a number of things causing it to shut down( i thought i reiderated that train of thought in an earlier post)high heat pesticides extreme cold? Or are you trying to say that ts only curl when they die from dehydration? If that's the case than I guess we can assume that almost all ts die from dehydration,..right?
My take is that many things cause ts to perish and in the process of dying,the body keeps the hemolymph in the cephalothorax and opithstoma,maybe as a self preservation switch keeping the organs going as long as possible or possibly the animal is weakend to the extent that it can no longer pump hemolymph to the legs..in either case I have a general understanding of the physical t..you didn't have to write all of that but thank you.

---------- Post added 12-30-2014 at 09:21 PM ----------

I hope that someone will come on here and tell me toxins don't cause the typical death curl and only lack of fluids cause it..I had close to 200 perfectly healthy well hydrated ts death curl from a natural gas leak in my house! So yaaaa..I would love to debate the topic

Nope I wasn't trying to say that..I see what you mean now. That sucks on your Ts w/the gas. You could be right about the liquid distribution upon death, would make sense.

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