Ceratogyrus identification

Ceratogyrus · Jan 14, 2015

Hi there.
Would like to discuss something regarding the identification of spiders and the subsequent breeding of them, especially by newer people to the hobby.
To lead to the question, I would like to hear people's opinion on what species of spider this is. (I already know what it is, but play along please and I'll get to my point)

eldondominicano · Jan 14, 2015

Ceratogyrus said:
Hi there.
Would like to discuss something regarding the identification of spiders and the subsequent breeding of them, especially by newer people to the hobby.
To lead to the question, I would like to hear people's opinion on what species of spider this is. (I already know what it is, but play along please and I'll get to my point)

Darlingi?....

RJ2 · Jan 14, 2015

marshalli?

eldondominicano · Jan 14, 2015

AHHHHHH!!!! What is it??

cold blood · Jan 14, 2015

I just don't know many of this genus outside of marshalli and darlingi very well. It doesn't look quite like either of those two, truthfully it looks like a tweener of both. Aside from the horn, I'd say darlingi, but its horn position seems too far forward and it looks too vertical. It looks like its in the right position for marshalli, but its not quite straight, like I'd expect from marshalli.

Is it a .......h word? Or just one of the genus I know nothing about...lol.

I await the answer....if it were mine...I'd frankly ask the op...lol.

IHeartTs · Jan 14, 2015

Horn looks kinda straight but color is different. Ahhh idk. Marshalli?

---------- Post added 01-14-2015 at 05:13 PM ----------

I take th at back. That's a unicorn.

eldondominicano · Jan 14, 2015

Now this is bugging me... C. Ezendami?

---------- Post added 01-14-2015 at 04:15 PM ----------

They have more of this curvature Cold Blood speaks of.. But their horns don't seem to get quite as large...

cold blood · Jan 14, 2015

IHeartTs said:
Horn looks kinda straight but color is different. Ahhh idk. Marshalli?

---------- Post added 01-14-2015 at 05:13 PM ----------

I take th at back. That's a unicorn.

Marshalli is known as the "unicorn"

IHeartTs · Jan 14, 2015

cold blood said:
Marshalli is known as the "unicorn"

Bahaha that's a coincidence. I meant an actual unicorn. Way to kill my joke

cold blood · Jan 14, 2015

IHeartTs said:
Bahaha that's a coincidence. I meant an actual unicorn. Way to kill my joke

Oh, you mean the actual mythological creature.

I don't think that's it. If you look, you will see that the actual unicorn will have more hair around the horn, in the form of a mane. They also lack fangs altogether and the mythological creature also is short 4 legs....plus the color is just all wrong.:laugh:

Red Eunice · Jan 14, 2015

My guess is C bechuanicus.

IHeartTs · Jan 14, 2015

cold blood said:
Oh, you mean the actual mythological creature.

I don't think that's it. If you look, you will see that the actual unicorn will have more hair around the horn, in the form of a mane. They also lack fangs altogether and the mythological creature also is short 4 legs....plus the color is just all wrong.:laugh:

You must be going blind. The OP clearly photoshopped 4 more legs onto the real deal to trick us. Mystery solved. You are all very welcome

---------- Post added 01-14-2015 at 05:46 PM ----------

but real talk, when do we get the answer??

wil123 · Jan 14, 2015

I cant believe no one here has fingered out why he made this thread.He made it because he's trying to prove a point about younger hobbyists making hybrids.

IHeartTs · Jan 14, 2015

wil123 said:
I cant believe no one here has fingered out why he made this thread.He made it because he's trying to prove a point about younger hobbyists making hybrids.

Imo I think cross breeding tarantulas and unicorns was the best idea anyone has ever had. But seriously, good call lol. I agree.

awiec · Jan 14, 2015

wil123 said:
I cant believe no one here has fingered out why he made this thread.He made it because he's trying to prove a point about younger hobbyists making hybrids.

This page is very insightful (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/the.tarantula.store/carapace-Ceratogyrus.htm) on the genus and its state in the hobby as I would bet several of my organs on it that there are many "crosses" of this genus due to identification errors and the fact that they appear to readily hybridize on their own.

paassatt · Jan 14, 2015

Red Eunice said:
My guess is C bechuanicus.

C. bechuanicus is a junior synonym of C. darlingi

Can you post a ventral shot of the spider? That would pretty much leave little doubt if it's a marshalli because of their double banding.

Ceratogyrus · Jan 14, 2015

Ok, sorry for the long post, but here it goes. It is related to the topic yesterday of hybrids on a facebook page. If I were a new person to the hobby and had gotten something like this and asked for identification, some people would have been quite happy to give positive ID's without having a look at other features that are necessary for identification. My first gut feel on the spider would have been marshalli too, although the size of the horn compared to the size of the spider (Only around 5cm), would have also alerted me to a problem, as these only get their horns (Especially this size), at a much later stage. The spider is in fact a darlingi x brachycephalus. Someone contacted me regarding a few illegal spiders that he had (We require permits to keep these in SA). A friend of his, who didn't know any better, had bred them (He showed me a pic of the darlingi female mating with a brachycephalus male) and had given him a few slings. He had then sold off his collection and had a few of these that the buyer wouldn't take. I managed to add them to my permit, and they will stay with me till they die. This is a very clear example of how a few innocent hybrids can quickly mess up the hobby. Suddenly these are being bred as marshalli and there goes the purity of the species in the hobby. It happens very easily, so people need to make 100% sure that what they have are actual pure species and not possibly hybrids.

I will try get a ventral shot of it later just for interest sake.

AphonopelmaTX · Jan 15, 2015

Ceratogyrus said:
It happens very easily, so people need to make 100% sure that what they have are actual pure species and not possibly hybrids.

And how do you suggest someone do that? I'm not trying to be fasicious but tarantula identification is a skill that takes years of study and practice to aquire. Tarantula retailers and the common lay person do not have these skills. It's nice to point out with pictoral proof that hybridization occurs due to improperly identified theraphosid species, but how would you suggest someone go about getting an accurate idendification before breeding?

Ceratogyrus · Jan 15, 2015

It was more of a general warning. Getting everyone that wants to breed their spiders to first check the original description papers would just be a dream.
I just get annoyed that I often get judged for having a few hybrids that people don't want anymore, yet most people possibly have a few of their own or create them accidentally when attempting to breed "confusing" genera like Avicularia, Hysterocrates, Chilobrachys, etc

Ceratogyrus · Jan 16, 2015

Here is a ventral of the spider showing the single abdominal band

Ceratogyrus identification

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