Are Ts who are allowed to burrow, happier? I want to hear your opinion.

IHeartBugz · Jan 27, 2015

Hi all. I was looking at plastic shoe boxes for future tarantulas that I will have. I want to go ahead and make the enclosures ahead of time. There are ones that are much deeper than others, but of course cost more, and I was wondering if my spiders would be happier if I got the deeper ones for deeper substrate to allow them to burrow.
My immediate though was "Of course they would prefer to burrow." However I wanted to hear everyone's opinion first because if the T is just as happy either way, it would be much cheaper and more convenient to get the shorter containers.
So everyone, what do you think? Are Ts happier when allowed to burrow? Why do you have this opinion? Thanks!

just1moreT · Jan 27, 2015

What T are you planning on getting,my opinion is yes they sill fill more secure .down side some sp.you want get to see but maybe some legs sticking out now and then. But certain they be happy in the right conditions

tbrandt · Jan 27, 2015

It is highly dependent on the species.

Some are obligate burrowers (will attempt to make a burrow for itself no matter what) like Pelinobius Mutinous (King Baboon) or Haplopelma Lividum (Cobalt Blue). Some like Lasiodora Parahybana (Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eater) are bulldozers that will constantly move substrate around and rearrange their hide, so a decent amount of substrate is always appreciated.

Some arboreal, who live largely in hides up above the substrate surface, also appreciate some substrate to burrow the lower part of their hide into when they are younger.

It is highly dependent on species, but there are few that I personally would feel ok with giving less substrate than 2" as adults. Thats just me though. I prefer, even for species that won't dig much and are provided with an artificial hide (some sort of hide to retreat to is a must no matter what) to give them some depth to the substrate just in case they want to add depth to the bottom of their hide or whatever... Better to provide more substrate than to have a stressed T.

What species are you housing?

vespers · Jan 27, 2015

tbrandt said:
Some like Lasiodora Parahybana (Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eater) are bulldozers that will constantly move substrate around and rearrange their hide

My AF L. parahybana does not do this.

Tomoran · Jan 27, 2015

It really depends on the species.

For obligate burrowers and for species who will burrow if given the opportunity, I always give them enough depth so they can dig if they want to. Also, the majority of my sings will dig burrows if given the opportunity, so I give them all adequate depth.

I know that Ts are adaptable, and I've read other folks post that they give their obligate burrowers shallow substrate so they can see them more, but I'm okay with not seeing them as much if they are secure. I keep several Old World species, and I've found that my fast, defensive species will usually bolt to their burrows if disturbed rather than stand their ground and try to attack. Are they "happier?" I don't know about that, but they do seem calmer and more secure in their surroundings. The means less opportunity for escape or a bite.

My C. guangxiensis, C. dyscolus, M. balfouri, P. crassipes, O. philippinius, H. gigas, E. pachypus, P. murinus, a P. muticus, H. lividum, C. darlingi, P. antinous, and T. stirmi all currently have deep burrows. My three L. parahybanas used to have them until they hit about 2.5 inches.

BossRoss · Jan 27, 2015

It really depends on the species AND the individual T. Some Ts have different "personalities" even if within the same genus/species.

If the T has a safe place to hide or a decent burrow they are more likely to run for their hide instead of out of the enclosure when feeding or doing maintenance.

I see all my burrowing species at night(excluding during pre-molt and molts) and have also witnessed them out and about during the day.

When your T gets a little bigger you will probably see it more as it feels more confident with size. IMO make sure there is enough sub for it to burrow.

LythSalicaria · Jan 27, 2015

I'm convinced Ts that aren't obligate burrowers will be quite happy regardless of whether they're allowed to burrow or not so long as a good hide is provided, but I still like to give all of my terrestrials the option to dig. All of them with the exception of my B. smithi and one of my LD slings bulldoze their enclosures every night. The way I see it, it gives them something to do; and watching my Acanthoscurria species rolling around dirt balls is endlessly entertaining.

IHeartTs · Jan 27, 2015

I always give my Ts enough sub to move around and build things. Usually between 1.5 and 3 inches depending on their personalities. My obligate burrowers I always give enough to burrow. Between 5 and 7 inches. I'd day give all adult Ts, besides obligate burrowers, about 2 or 3 inches of sub until you learn what they Prefer. I dint remember who's signature it is but "a hidin T is a happy T". This is my goal. just my opinion

skippydude · Jan 27, 2015

Terrestrials would be fine in shoeboxes

Fossorials need more depth of substrate

I use shoeboxes as juvie containers for all my terrestrials and as adult enclosures for my dwarfs and semi-dwarfs

Cavedweller · Jan 27, 2015

I prefer to let my Ts exhibit as much of their natural behavior as I can, so I give mine the opportunity to burrow. If you're worried you won't be able to see your T much if they burrow, just get more Ts!

IHeartBugz · Jan 27, 2015

Many good points here. Thanks for all of your replies everyone. I'll get some deeper ones and some regular sterilite shoe boxes. I'll start them off in the deep ones and anyone who I find doesn't really burrow I'll switch to the regular shoe boxes at some point.

Not really worried about not seeing them. As long as I can see some legs sticking out now and then and see them snag their meals. I'd rather they be happier.

Also yes, I always provide hides for my Ts.

Thanks again.

Drenalin · Jan 27, 2015

My opinion is based on a recent discovery. I have an adult female LP that, up until this past fall, resided in a 10 gallon tank with only about 3-4 inches of substrate. I had a hollowed out log for her to use as a hide but she never used it. She would just hang out in the open and move around the substrate sometimes digging out a shallow crater to the bottom of the tank. I finally got the hint and added to the depth of the substrate to a little over 8 inches and replaced her old hide with a flatter, piece of cork. Within a couple days she burrowed out a heckuva hole beneath the cork all the way to the bottom of the tank. She now spends most of her time in her tomb. Considering the amount of digging and length of the tunnel down to her living quarters, I'd say she's pretty happy with things and wonder how deep she would burrow if given a deeper tank???... But then I'd be concerned of a cave in.

viper69 · Jan 28, 2015

Not only does it depend upon species, but also the T. I have 2 Ts same locality, one always burrows, the other hasn't even bothered to. Same setup too.

GG80 · Jan 29, 2015

None of mine have ever burrowed (all NW terrestrials) but they are always on deep substrate. The way I see it is it's no more effort to just give them deep substrate lest they decide one day that they want to dig.

eldondominicano · Jan 29, 2015

vespers said:
My AF L. parahybana does not do this.

My LP is crazy with its constant re-construction of the hide. Then again my 2+ incher has at lease 5 inches of digging sub

Ashton · Jan 29, 2015

I always give every T a cage that is larger than everyone else does (G. porteri in 15 gallon and 1.5-3 inch arboreals in 6x6x8 containers and full grown avics in 10-15 gallons) and borders on being a vivarium unless they are smaller than one inch. I always have a lot of substrate for terrestrials (5-6") and I use arboreal containers with a loss on top for fossorials with 6-8 inches for juveniles, haven't had an adult to give 12+ inches yet. If you can get the T to have the most to do, larger area or many places to hide, it should be less stressed.

vespers · Jan 29, 2015

eldondominicano said:
My LP is crazy with its constant re-construction of the hide. Then again my 2+ incher has at lease 5 inches of digging sub

They will usually burrow and bulldoze when they are young like yours, but many often grow out of it once they put on some decent size. My AF has a cork bark half-log for a hide, which it uses mostly only uses for molting. Otherwise, its out and visible most of the time.

eldondominicano · Jan 29, 2015

vespers said:
They will usually burrow and bulldoze when they are young like yours, but many often grow out of it once they put on some decent size. My AF has a cork bark half-log for a hide, which it uses mostly only uses for molting. Otherwise, its out and visible most of the time.

Yea I hear they have a rep for displaying themselves a bit. Actually my LP is already showing signs of that, it chills out in the light for hours sometimes

GG80 · Jan 30, 2015

I posted on this thread yesterday that none of my Ts have ever burrowed but I still prefer to keep them on deep substrate in case they decide to. Sure enough, I woke up this morning to find my L.p sling had decided to burrow. I'm glad now that I give deep substrate to all my Ts.

Poec54 · Jan 31, 2015

GG80 said:
None of mine have ever burrowed (all NW terrestrials) but they are always on deep substrate. The way I see it is it's no more effort to just give them deep substrate lest they decide one day that they want to dig.

Only the effort and time involved if you stack cages, a necessity in many large collections. None of my OW fossorials get more than 4-5" of substrate. They make tunnels from a starting point of under a cork slab. In the wild they work with what they have, and not all of them get ideal soils for digging deep (rocks, tree roots, hard clays, high water tables, etc).

Are Ts who are allowed to burrow, happier? I want to hear your opinion.

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