Venomous Ts?

So, I know that the "toxicity" of a tarantula is determined by a number of different things as well as the individual reaction of the person being tagged. I also know that there are no reported deaths from a T bite.

That aside, what species of T in your opinion has the highest toxicity or which is the worst to be bitten by (or that you have been bitten by)?

Check out the bite reports...my gf goes on another forum and she showed me a pic of a really nasty A.geniculata bite, there was major necrosis to the thumb...if the pic was real that is the worst t bite I have ever seen...( I doubt the pic was of a tarantula bite though)
I used to handle almost any T I came across when I first began to keep ts and have been bitten by a few...the worst goes to a p.murinus..
I sometimes wonder if its a bad idea recounting specific symptoms and severity of T bites so all I am willing to say is, try not to get bit it really sucks...

If the bite was legit and did in fact come from a genic, I'd hazard a guess the the necrosis was a result of an infection caused by the puncture wounds. I don't know squat about tarantula venom, but I think that if genic venom, or any other tarantula venom, contained necrotic agents, it would be well documented and common knowledge.
If I were bit by a genic or any other large fanged tarantula, I think my main concern in regard to long-term effects apart from the mechanical damage would be tetanus. Again though, I don't know anything about tarantula venom apart from the species that are commonly acknowledged to be hotter.

Tim Benzedrine said:

If the bite was legit and did in fact come from a genic, I'd hazard a guess the the necrosis was a result of an infection caused by the puncture wounds. I don't know squat about tarantula venom, but I think that if genic venom, or any other tarantula venom, contained necrotic agents, it would be well documented and common knowledge.
If I were bit by a genic or any other large fanged tarantula, I think my main concern in regard to long-term effects apart from the mechanical damage would be tetanus. Again though, I don't know anything about tarantula venom apart from the species that are commonly acknowledged to be hotter.

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It's funny you mention tetanus - in TKG there's a section that talks about this, and how while no one has reported death as a direct result of a Tarantula's venom, a handful of people have died from complications that arose from the bites. Tetanus and tularemia mainly. Through talking with people about spider bites I've learned that many people who get bitten even by small arachnids such as yellow sac spiders and the less venomous relatives of brown recluse spiders often end up with localized infections - albeit minor ones for the most part. This happened to me once, I was bitten by a small brown spider I have yet to identify and I ended up with a seeping infection where I was bitten - it lasted for ages, and it was painful.

This isn't all that surprising though. Their fangs are bound to be covered in all sorts of unfriendly bacteria, same as any other animal. I would say that it's entirely possible for someone to get a very nasty infection from a Tarantula bite - especially if they happen to have a compromised immune system.

Tim Benzedrine said:

If the bite was legit and did in fact come from a genic, I'd hazard a guess the the necrosis was a result of an infection caused by the puncture wounds.

I think that if genic venom, or any other tarantula venom, contained necrotic agents, it would be well documented and common knowledge.

If I were bit by a genic or any other large fanged tarantula, I think my main concern in regard to long-term effects apart from the mechanical damage would be tetanus..

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+1 I completely agree

---------- Post added 01-28-2015 at 02:33 AM ----------

LythSalicaria said:

It's funny you mention tetanus - in TKG there's a section that talks about this, and how while no one has reported death as a direct result of a Tarantula's venom, a handful of people have died from complications that arose from the bites. Tetanus and tularemia mainly. Through talking with people about spider bites I've learned that many people who get bitten even by small arachnids such as yellow sac spiders and the less venomous relatives of brown recluse spiders often end up with localized infections - albeit minor ones for the most part. .

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I didn't see that in the tkg I have...I think mine is either 1st or 2nd edition though..what page does that start on? I will dig out my copy dust it off and see if I can find that section.. It sounds like an interesting read..
I just caught a yellow sac spider the other night and decided to keep it because its reported that they have a nasty bite! Lol! I lucked out it looks like a young female!

As was said, spend some time reading bite reports. That's your best source of info.

Keep in mind spiders only bite in self defense, and virtually all bites can be avoided if people treat these animals with proper respect. Handling, complacency, & sloppy techniques are the common threads that run thru bites reports. They've evolved to claim a small piece of territory as their own, which their lives revolve around, and intruders can cause them to be afraid for their lives. Never blame the spider if you get bit.

14pokies said:

I didn't see that in the tkg I have...I think mine is either 1st or 2nd edition though..what page does that start on? I will dig out my copy dust it off and see if I can find that section.. It sounds like an interesting read..
I just caught a yellow sac spider the other night and decided to keep it because its reported that they have a nasty bite! Lol! I lucked out it looks like a young female!

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I've got 3rd edition - it's mentioned on page 198 within the section labelled "Personal Contact - One on One." I just finished re-reading the page in question to make sure I wasn't getting my info garbled, and for the most part I got it right except for the part where I implied that the majority of deaths related to Tarantula bites were a result of contracting tetanus or rabbit fever after getting bit. What the section actually says is that the authors knew of only five anecdotal reports of Tarantula-related deaths in all of history. Three were children with the "official" cause of death being unknown, and of the remaining two one died of lock-jaw, the other of rabbit fever. When I first read this I was skeptical that Tarantulas were really to blame for these deaths, however. All five of them occurred over 100 years ago when the latest and greatest cure-all was blood-letting. They could have just as easily contracted these infections from scratched knees, but Tarantulas ended up getting blamed.

After reading your post about the person who got bit by an A. genic I was reminded of it and now I find myself reevaluating my opinion. It's enough evidence for me to never want to get bitten by any species of T, I can tell you that much. :: But as Poec54 says, it's easy enough to avoid.

That's cool that you found a yellow sac spider - I caught a gravid female in my bathroom back in the summer and had planned to keep it, but it managed to escape when I tried to feed it. While I had it though I did get the opportunity to have a real good look at it up close and personal - they sure have big fangs for such small spiders. Definitely wouldn't want to find out what it feels like to be on the business end of them!

In theory, this is probably the list as far as venom potency of available species in the hobby:

{1} S. calceatum
{2} H. maculata
{3} P. murinus & other pterinochilus
{4} Poecilotheria
{5} Other asiatic genera H. schmidti....hainanum etc.

These are not necessarily in order. Different people will have different reactions to the venom.

Poec54 said:

As was said, spend some time reading bite reports. That's your best source of info.

Keep in mind spiders only bite in self defense, and virtually all bites can be avoided if people treat these animals with proper respect. Handling, complacency, & sloppy techniques are the common threads that run thru bites reports. They've evolved to claim a small piece of territory as their own, which their lives revolve around, and intruders can cause them to be afraid for their lives. Never blame the spider if you get bit.

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Agreed.

These threads always come off as "what spider can I get that makes me hardcore". Not saying the OP has this intention, just an observation.

Anecdotally, off the top of my head, and not making any claim to be comprehensive...the species that are discussed often in similar threads include, Pterinochilus Murinus, Poecilotheria sp., Haplopelma sp., Heteroscodra Maculata and Stromatopelma Calceatum. Again, not exhaustive, these are just some of the common species that get reported as having nasty bites. Incidentally, they are also more common than some of the other species which may have more venomous bites and bites therefore might occur more often (More owners = more careless owners = more bites).

Candidates for highly "venomous" tarantulas tend to be those that regularly cause severe pain that radiates beyond the bite location, swelling, numbness, nausea, vomiting, chills, irregular heart rate, difficulty breathing/tightness in the chest, muscle cramping, numbness, etc. Also, in most of the bite reports, at least some of the symptoms last for several days and sometimes for weeks (muscle cramping).

There are DEFINITELY other species that would contend for this title from Africa, Asia, Australia. Australia seems like it was a pretty nasty place to have to evolve, many species of animal have worked out equally as nasty defenses. I am sure a bite from Phlogius sp. would be bad news all day long.

Without controlled laboratory studies on the venom and bite behavior of various species then it is impossible to truly answer your question - even with bite reports. As others have said, not getting bitten should be a central goal with keeping any tarantula. This is achieved by understanding what the species is capable of in terms of speed and defensiveness and entering into every encounter with respect and an expectation that you are going to have to deal with that sort of behavior.

---------- Post added 01-28-2015 at 10:23 AM ----------

LythSalicaria said:

That's cool that you found a yellow sac spider - I caught a gravid female in my bathroom back in the summer and had planned to keep it, but it managed to escape when I tried to feed it. While I had it though I did get the opportunity to have a real good look at it up close and personal - they sure have big fangs for such small spiders. Definitely wouldn't want to find out what it feels like to be on the business end of them!

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Incidentally, I have received a confirmed bite from a yellow sac spider about 5 years ago. I was living in an apartment that had no shortage of them and put on a t-shirt. The spider was pinned under my left arm between the shirt and my body and bit me defensively on the underside of my arm. Unfortunately, the spider didn't make it, but I was able to make a positive identification.

Initial pain was similar to a bee sting. The bite area became a raised red welt that spread from the size of a dime to the size baseball over the course of the day. In the evening, I experienced mild fever like symptoms including chills and slight nausea. The next day these feelings continued weakness, joint aches, slighter feverish feeling with chills. The bite location itself was just red and sore to the touch, but not too bad.

By day two, symptoms had subsided, with the exception of a red spot at the bite location that was only slightly sore. I never experienced any necrosis, thankfully!

---------- Post added 01-28-2015 at 10:33 AM ----------

freedumbdclxvi said:

Agreed.

These threads always come off as "what spider can I get that makes me hardcore". Not saying the OP has this intention, just an observation.

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This.

There is a strong and pervasive trend to desire to own the "most ____ tarantula." This could be the most venomous, defensive, fastest, largest, rarest - they are all potential motivation thats seem to drive interest in purchasing a given species.

Whether it is because of feelings that the owner will vicariously gain respect and macho points, because it inspires the owner to harbor additional respect for the species as a natural wonder of evolution, or some other reason -- I think hobbyists must be careful not to give into these feelings and purchase a tarantula that they are not prepared to offer proper care and precaution.

tbrandt said:

Without controlled laboratory studies on the venom and bite behavior of various species then it is impossible to truly answer your question - even with bite reports. As others have said, not getting bitten should be a central goal with keeping any tarantula. This is achieved by understanding what the species is capable of in terms of speed and defensiveness and entering into every encounter with respect and an expectation that you are going to have to deal with that sort of behavior.

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+1. there will probably never be any controlled lab studies on bites, as there's no funding; these animals pose no health threats in their native habitats (where starvation and disease are infinitely bigger problems to deal with). It's only hobbyists in western nations that want to know, and it wouldn't even be an issue there if they could keep from handling and doing stupid things with their spiders.

Handling is an old school stunt that needs to be discouraged, online and in books. These days bites can lead to regulation and bans. It's not worth it. That's another area where the TKG needs to be brought up to date for the current state of the hobby.

Well said tbrandt and Poec! We don't need any regulations! There is enough of that crap these days!

-=}GA']['OR{=-;2351617 said:

Well said tbrandt and Poec! We don't need any regulations! There is enough of that B.S. these days!

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Way too much government meddling in our private affairs and taking our money in taxes to fund it. Let's not give them excuses to regulate or ban our spiders. The hobby didn't have to worry about that 20 years ago, but it's a fact of life today. Unfortunately the internet, which has been a key part of the hobby's growth, may also be what takes it down, with all the stupid stunts being done with spiders. Little by little federal, state, and local governments keep taking things away from us, partially because certain individuals insist on showing them how irresponsible the public can be.

Poec54 said:

Way too much government meddling in our private affairs and taking our money in taxes to fund it. Let's not give them excuses to regulate or ban our spiders. The hobby didn't have to worry about that 20 years ago, but it's a fact of life today. Unfortunately the internet, which has been a key part of the hobby's growth, may also be what takes it down, with all the stupid stunts being done with spiders. Little by little federal, state, and local governments keep taking things away from us, partially because certain individuals insist on showing them how irresponsible the public can be.

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Yep, it is a sad state of affairs.

Poec54 said:

Way too much government meddling in our private affairs and taking our money in taxes to fund it. Let's not give them excuses to regulate or ban our spiders. The hobby didn't have to worry about that 20 years ago, but it's a fact of life today. Unfortunately the internet, which has been a key part of the hobby's growth, may also be what takes it down, with all the stupid stunts being done with spiders. Little by little federal, state, and local governments keep taking things away from us, partially because certain individuals insist on showing them how irresponsible the public can be.

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I wish I could rave this post more than once. Very well said Poec54.

LythSalicaria said:

I wish I could rave this post more than once. Very well said Poec54.

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In spite of the beginners who get offended and yell at us when we tell them OBT's are a poor choice, things don't happen in a vacuum. I'd rather hurt their feelings than have them get a spider that they won't be able to control in a few months when it grows.

Poec54 said:

Way too much government meddling in our private affairs and taking our money in taxes to fund it. Let's not give them excuses to regulate or ban our spiders. The hobby didn't have to worry about that 20 years ago, but it's a fact of life today. Unfortunately the internet, which has been a key part of the hobby's growth, may also be what takes it down, with all the stupid stunts being done with spiders. Little by little federal, state, and local governments keep taking things away from us, partially because certain individuals insist on showing them how irresponsible the public can be.

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-=}GA']['OR{=-;2351659 said:

Yep, it is a sad state of affairs.

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I don't know what's more depressing; the fact that our government keeps taking things away, or the fact that there are idiots out there stupid enough to be the reason why things get taken away from us. As Poec likes to quote, "Hey watch this..." is going to be our downfall.

Too much stupidity in the world for me to fathom, and it's the responsible people who suffer for the stupid's misdeeds.

miss moxie said:

I don't know what's more depressing; the fact that our government keeps taking things away, or the fact that there are idiots out there stupid enough to be the reason why things get taken away from us. As Poec likes to quote, "Hey watch this..." is going to be our downfall.

Too much stupidity in the world for me to fathom, and it's the responsible people who suffer for the stupid's misdeeds.

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Spot on! Very true.

As far as I know, S. calceatum has the nastiest bite. I think there was an agreement somewhere on this forum that it depends on where the species originates from and what the predominant prey are, because that defines the evolution of their venom.

BTW Gator, your inbox is full.

Angel Minkov said:

As far as I know, S. calceatum has the nastiest bite. I think there was an agreement somewhere on this forum that it depends on where the species originates from and what the predominant prey are, because that defines the evolution of their venom.

BTW Gator, your inbox is full.

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Sorry man...I just cleaned it out. Resend. =)