Hoarding?

Inspired by the "How many tarantulas do you have? thread...

Is there a border one crosses between collecting and being a hoarder? I mean, if a woman has fifty cats, she might be referred to as a "crazy cat lady" (men can have lots of cats too, but the meme is usually directed towards women. That's a different discussion though).

So is there a theoretical number where one becomes an animal hoarder? is there a point where you can have so many T's that they no longer pets or a hobby and actually just things being hoarded? Many folks joke about the addiction, but does it in reality become an actual addiction, with "addiction" being in the sense that keeping the spiders actually becomes detrimental to one's mental health? Naturally those in it for business purposes would not really count, that is more a case of turning a hobby into something (hopefully) lucrative.

I'm not judging, I have a very small selection and before I got the additions, I really felt no compulsion to get more. But now I find myself thinking "I'd really sort of like to have a G. pulchra or a B. albopilosum..." So I can understand the desire to want to have a lot of tarantulas.

From my understanding, a hoarder is someone who has so many that they can't take good care of them, slip into more or less warehousing them, and eventually past really substandard care into outright neglect.
My vet says that when you begin to dread feeding or cleaning or any of the things it takes to keep them healthy, you're on your way. The absolute number varies not only for different people, but also for the same people at different times in their life.
At one point in my life, when I had an extended bout of an illness, I felt like I was turning into a hoarder despite the fact that up to then taking care of the same animals had been no big deal - a joy, in fact. I had to adopt out a few - a very hard decision, but absolutely the right one.

Tim Benzedrine said:

I'm not judging, I have a very small selection and before I got the additions, I really felt no compulsion to get more. But now I find myself thinking "I'd really sort of like to have a G. pulchra or a B. albopilosum..." So I can understand the desire to want to have a lot of tarantulas.

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Shame on you.

We already have a G. pulchra, and she's lovely!



As for hoarding, the definition of the disease is (According to the Mayo Clinic's webpage)

Hoarding disorder is a persistent difficulty discarding or parting with possessions because of a perceived need to save them. A person with hoarding disorder experiences distress at the thought of getting rid of the items.

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That's what I believe a tarantula hoarder would be. Someone who cannot part with their tarantulas, cannot sell them or trade them because anxiety and emotional duress keeps them from doing so. They'd just have the need to constantly acquire more.

+1 to everything Drache said.

In hobbies like this, however, I think that circumstances play too much of a role for anyone to be able to come up with a set definition of invert hoarding. Where some people can afford to have a collection that numbers in the thousands, others can only realistically keep about 50 specimens before they start running into problems.

I guess what it boils down to is personal responsibility. Each individual needs to carefully examine their own situation to determine where they should draw the line.

Edit: miss moxie, that's one beauty of a G. pulchra!

If you can't take care of your animals properly, you should reduce the numbers (or don't get them in the first place). That's the simple line, which I draw when it comes to my animals.

19 snakes, 2 centipedes, 2 tarantulas, 1 dog and I am at my limit.

I believe there are people that do this, yes. That doesn't make anyone with a larger collection a hoarder automatically, but if you're using your money to constantly buy tarantulas rather than paying your bills, than you've got a problem. It's all about prioritizing.

I think, regarding this hobby, hoarding is spoken of if you just can't stop buying. I mean buying species that you already have (or a pair for breeding) and still can't leave it when you see one for sale. But having many T's of different genus/species is more a collecting thing i guess. Although, i can imagine that some people, unlike me, have more interest in only one or a few of the genus/species available. So in that case it wouldn't be hoarding either, hmmm... difficult one Let's just say we're all collecting, that sounds healthier, hehehe.

Hording of dead tarantulas. You would be a T hoarder if you would not be able to separate from your dead Ts.

@David that would be obsessive compulsive behavior, like a tik...

It's the 'hoarders' that do the most breeding and produce most of the slings that you buy. They keep the hobby going, be very thankful they're around. They can do this because they're able to make their hobby pay for itself. There's a point at which what you breed covers all your costs: a person with a small collection is spending much more than a person with a large collection. It's a 'big picture' thing that may be eluding you.

The analogy to cats isn't relevant. 500 spiders won't do to a house what 50 cats do, or potentially even what one child can do. 'Detrimental to one's mental health'? Good lord, how do you come up with this stuff?

I guess collecting could have a negative connotation as well, if the person regards them as merely things and not living creatures. I suppose it all depends on the mind set.

And Moxie, dear, How could I have forgotten. It's just that I am so preoccupied with poor little Geronimo, I guess. His -or her, I'm also a little concerned about gender confusion issues he or she might have at this stage - remedial webbing grades have not been encouraging.:cry:

Like many of the above posters said, it has more to do with how many tarantulas can I personally take care of without feeling like you're drowning in tarantulas. For some people that might be 3, for some that might be 300. I currently have 3, and would like to eventually have 5 but then I will probably stop for a bit. Some people more advanced in the hobby wouldn't bat an eye at purchasing 5 tarantulas at a time and would not be considered hoarders.

There is also a world of difference between keeping tarantulas and cats, obviously. We see cat hoarders on TV because having 300 cats is obviously a problem, regardless of your personal situation. There is just no way a single person can care, feed, scoop litter boxes, and provide affection for 300 cats. Tarantulas on the other hand, require very little maintenance and often will stop eating before a molt, making it even less time consuming.

The other part of hoarding is the compulsion to get more. We see this in cat and dog hoarding. People can barely afford to feed and vet the pets they have, but have a compulsion to go on Craigslist or whatever and adopt more. Partly because they can't see the state their pets are in, partly because they feel they are the only people who will help these pets (when in reality, the pets are not being helped at all). If you can't go to a show or online without purchasing more tarantulas, and you cant afford more enclosures for them or insects, then it's more like hoarding and less like collecting.

I remember a client at the pet hospital who was constantly bringing in stray cats. She had a break down in the exam room over how she would afford to pay for this cat when she couldn't even afford to get a mammogram for the lump she felt recently in her breast. It was heart breaking. We offered to take the cat to a shelter for her and to help her find homes for some of her other cats, but she refused. Next week she came in with a whole litter of kittens she found. We couldn't convince her to give some cats up or stop taking in other cats and just go to a human doctor for herself. It was awful and I still think about it.

Anyway, that is my line between hoarding and collecting. Are my pets properly housed, fed, and vetted? Do I have time daily to take care of them? If I buy another, can I afford their new housing/equipment/vet fees? Are the non-tarantula species in my care getting enough human interaction?

Tim Benzedrine said:

I guess collecting could have a negative connotation as well, if the person regards them as merely things and not living creatures.

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You need to get out more often. Humans collect things, living and otherwise. I have a large collection of palms in my yard, hundreds of them. I've seen many public and private plant collections. Living things. They certainly look better than a yard of nothing but sod.

I've also seen private collections of snakes, tortoises, crocodiles, birds, big cats, wolves, etc. There's nothing wrong with it if they're properly cared for. In the future, with the rate of worldwide habitat destruction, many tarantulas may only exist in captivity, and only be bred by collectors and hoarders. Zoos have their hands full with a handful of animals that the public likes. Be careful of the stigmas you attach until you understand how the world really works.

Poec54 said:

You need to get out more often. Humans collect things, living and otherwise. I have a large collection of palms in my yard, hundreds of them. I've seen many public and private plant collections. Living things. They certainly look better than a yard of nothing but sod.

I've also seen private collections of snakes, tortoises, crocodiles, birds, big cats, wolves, etc. There's nothing wrong with it if they're properly cared for. In the future, with the rate of worldwide habitat destruction, many tarantulas may only exist in captivity, and only be bred by collectors and hoarders. Zoos have their hands full with a handful of animals that the public likes. Be careful of the stigmas you attach until you understand how the world really works.

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You're just grumpy that you've be outed as a tarantula hoarder.:biggrin: J/K

Poec54 said:

It's the 'hoarders' that do the most breeding and produce most of the slings that you buy. They keep the hobby going, be very thankful they're around. They can do this because they're able to make their hobby pay for itself. There's a point at which what you breed covers all your costs: a person with a small collection is spending much more than a person with a large collection. It's a 'big picture' thing that may be eluding you.

The analogy to cats isn't relevant. 500 spiders won't do to a house what 50 cats do, or potentially even what one child can do. 'Detrimental to one's mental health'? Good lord, how do you come up with this stuff?

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Easy there, no one is saying that having a large collection of inverts automatically makes you a hoarder (although I'll admit the bit about mental health does sound a little silly when talking about collecting tarantulas). You need to understand that some people simply don't have the time, the space or the support required to do what you're describing. It's all well and good if an individual can have thousands of tarantulas and make them pay for themselves, but someone still has to look after all those specimens. You yourself have said in another thread that one would need a support staff to maintain a collection that large. If you don't have supportive friends or family who are willing to volunteer their time to help you or you can't afford to pay someone to help you, then having a collection that large would be quite the challenge if not impossible. On the other hand, if you've got all those bases covered, then you're to be commended for playing such a large role in keeping the hobby alive.

Unfortunately many of us just don't have those bases covered. I would -love- to be able to dedicate an entire room to raising/breeding tarantulas. I'd -love- to have a collection that numbers in the thousands, but with my circumstances being what they are I simply can't. If I were to try, I would become overwhelmed and my specimens would suffer as a result. That wouldn't be fair to them. Am I making sense at all?

Tim Benzedrine said:

Inspired by the "How many tarantulas do you have? thread...

Is there a border one crosses between collecting and being a hoarder?

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Only in your mind.


I, and so can anyone else, look at anyone else and after learning a bit about them say 'they aren't normal'.

You wear glasses, that's not normal, you have defective genes, and are nothing but a cesspool of genetic detritus.

You have 3 wives, well that's not normal.

You have 200 (insert whatever you want), well that's not normal, you waste your money on crap.



I see far too many threads that revolve around the concept of society's expected norms.

There is no such thing as normal. I'm so sick of (not you Tim) reading threads from people (I stopped reading them) along the lines of "my sig. other/friend etc thinks I have too many...how do I tell them I love X animal...."

It's not rocket science, you tell someone, this is how it is, they either like you or leave you, think you are cool or think you are drool. Who cares! Life is not a popularity contest, you only live it ONCE, live life how you want to, not based on how others THINK or EXPECT you should.

As long as you aren't infringing upon someone's rights, you can tell them to screw off and die a slow, painful cancerous death, or join you for a wonderful ride called life.

I fully understand that most people don't have the time to have a big collection. It's not what I said. No one's obligated to have a big collection, or even a small collection. They can get whatever they want without the label of 'hoarder.' If they're able to, the more they get, the less they spend if they breed. It's nothing like old ladies and cats (which shouldn't been used as analogy, same with the poor choice of title). Obviously the average US citizen isn't going to give up watching reality TV and game shows so he can maintain a bug collection. It's a commitment only a small number of people are up to (spiders, not TV).

What I said about needing a staff is dealers that have thousands of vials to maintain, so they can offer a big selection of species. Collectors and hoarders are doing it by themselves, so there's limits as to space and time. Few people have friends or family that could, or would help. Trust me, you don't want a 'collection that numbers in the thousands.'

---------- Post added 02-07-2015 at 06:30 PM ----------

viper69 said:

I, and so can anyone else, look at anyone else and after learning a bit about them say 'they aren't normal'.

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Exactly what I thought, which is why I recommended that he take cold showers.

---------- Post added 02-07-2015 at 06:46 PM ----------

Tim Benzedrine said:

So is there a theoretical number where one becomes an animal hoarder?

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Yes, and that number is 73, which as you recall, is the 'perfect number.'

IMO, a hoarder is someone who collects more of anything than they can realistically care for and to the detriment of the health of their collection (if the collection consists of living things) and/or their own health.

Poec54 said:

Yes, and that number is 73, which as you recall, is the 'perfect number.'

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I'm gonna need more shelving...

I tell myself there's no such thing as a tarantula hoarder we are merely custodians saving a brighter future for generations to come by preserving several species at once. It helps me sleep at night

Poec54 said:

It's the 'hoarders' that do the most breeding and produce most of the slings that you buy. They keep the hobby going, be very thankful they're around. They can do this because they're able to make their hobby pay for itself. There's a point at which what you breed covers all your costs: a person with a small collection is spending much more than a person with a large collection. It's a 'big picture' thing that may be eluding you.

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Actually I think being a tarantula hoarder would mean that the person couldn't even handle parting with their spiderlings from breeding.