Avicularia Tremor Walks

Hey guys

Well, I've had my Avicularia since the end of August. It seemed OK, until the last couple nights. I noticed it was sitting in the same spot near the bottom of the cage for a few days, and that it hadn't really moved. I decided to poke it with a pen to see if it would react.

It did indeed move, but it had "tremors", and couldn't really seem to walk, but it could hold itself up. It also had a very strong grip, even though it tremored when it walked, I could feel it pulling on the pen.

My first instinct was to guide it over to the water dish (which I had just filled with fresh water) to see if it would take a sip (something this tarantula does not seem to be shy about). Eventually though, this began to get me nervous, since it started to try and squeeze and hide in the water dish and I didn't want it to drown itself if it couldn't really move.

I put it in an "ICU" as described in the Tarantula Keeper's Guide (chinese food container, soaked paper towel) overnight, on top of a refrigerator. When I checked on it this morning, it was standing up in a natural pose, and it was walking around a little, but still with the tremors.



Now, this tarantula has had a number of issues and changes, mainly:

1.) Always appears to be fasting. It didn't eat anything until mid November, and it may have only eaten one or two more crickets since them (i've only ever seen it eat one, but there were two "spit balls" I did recover). It last ate earlier this month, but probably only one of the several crickets I put into the tank.

2.) It may have gotten "pinched" two weeks ago when a decoration shifted unexpectedly while cleaning near the cage. I watched it leap out in what looked like the nick of time, but it seemed healthy and did not have any ruptures on it that I could see. It continued to walk around in healthy fashion, and was fairly active before and after that point.

3.)Last week, I moved the tank over from my desk to on top of my bureau. I had originally placed it on my desk behind the hutch since it was out of direct sunlight and it might have helped with the humidity (My room is very dry), but due to the layout of my room, it made it very difficult to observe the tank and the tarantula, and even just to feed/water it. Its new location is a little more out in the open. After the "pinching" above, I made sure the tarantula was in a safe spot before I moved it.

3.5) A side note on the humidity/water situation, the water dishes (there are two!) evaporate rapidly, but parts of the tank are damp near the bottom (the substrate is terra cotta hydroballs with cococnut choire over top). I'm regularly refilling the water dishes, but I hesistate to make the whole cage damp due to possible unecessary sickness

4.)This might be a "Big" one. Two nights ago, my dad was trying to light a fire in our fireplace. The chimney was blocked, and the house filled up with smoke. My room (where the tarantula is housed) did not get smokey, but I could still smell it strongly.



I've been seeing things about this so-called "DKS", but is suspect thats not really a helpful diagnosis. In any event, the tarantula seems to have improved in condition since being in the ICU, but it doesn't look like its healthy yet.


I took a video of the tremors. I will post it sometime soon.

Thanks!

Does it seem like its twitching? Same thing happened to my Avicularia sp. "tarapoto". http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...ome-help-(Avicularia-sp.-quot-tarapoto-quot-)

I thought it was dehydration. All that can be recommended, is leave it alone in the ICU as much as possible. Don't disturb it a lot, only to make sure it has access to fresh clean water. Keep it in a warm, undisturbed location, preferably dark. I did all this, but sadly mine didn't make it.

It sounds dehydrated or the smoke thing could have been a factor.. if he's trying to drink, as long as the abdomen and the booklungs isn't submerged in the waterdish there's nothing to worry about. I don't know what of the above mentioned could have caused this, I think a video would be very helpful. Is the Ts abdomen shrivelled?

---------- Post added 02-25-2015 at 08:01 PM ----------

Also, some pictures of the enclosure would help

Apparently most hobbyists still think it's DKS which it isn't. I'm trying to save a friend's gbb.
She seems to be doing better. I think it has to do with chemicals, but that's a guess.

---------- Post added 02-25-2015 at 01:13 PM ----------

Also be careful. It seems to spread some how.

Did you use any chemical cleaners near the enclosure when you cleaned? That or the smoke would be likely candidates from my understanding.

lalberts9310 said:

It sounds dehydrated or the smoke thing could have been a factor.. if he's trying to drink, as long as the abdomen and the booklungs isn't submerged in the waterdish there's nothing to worry about. I don't know what of the above mentioned could have caused this, I think a video would be very helpful. Is the Ts abdomen shrivelled?

---------- Post added 02-25-2015 at 08:01 PM ----------

Also, some pictures of the enclosure would help

Click to expand...

Dehydrations was the first thing that occurred to me, since it has been so dry lately, and the water dishes evaporated so quickly. It also makes sense that the tarantula is hanging "low" for an Arboreal (and even this individual's normal behavior, it usually hangs out at the mid-level height). It also seemed to be doing better in the ICU this morning.

That said, the abdomen was never shriveled. I do admit, that the abdomen does look kinda small, but not necessarily small compared to the photos of reportedly healthy Avicularias. I figured this was just the nature of an arboreal species.

---------- Post added 02-25-2015 at 07:21 PM ----------

Sana said:

Did you use any chemical cleaners near the enclosure when you cleaned? That or the smoke would be likely candidates from my understanding.

Click to expand...

I don't really use chemicals of any kind in my room, at least not anywhere near the tarantula in any quantity that would be able to harm it. The worst I might do is paint an occaisonal model nearby. I haven't done anything like that recently.

Well, I went to go check on it this morning, and it was still alive, but it was not looking better. It didn't look that great when I go home last night either.

I could see that the ICU it was in had gotten a little dirty. I went to go change the ICU to a clean one, and moving the tarantula was somewhat difficult, as it struggled a bit, but still attempted to fight the pen i was using to move it. I took the opportunity to examine the underside to make sure there wasn't some obvious infection underneath.

Then I laid it down, and put the lid back on, except this time it didn't twitch when the lid clicked in. I'm 99% sure it kicked the bucket right there.

I'm gonna go ahead and take the blame on that one, moving it probably stressed it over the brink. I'm gonna let it stay there for a bit incase it just got so tired out that it can't move, but thats doubtful.

Even if that is the case, my gut tells me it probably won't make a recovery.

Onwards to a New T, with lessons learned, hopefully!

I think the only thing that is discouraging here, is that while this was my first tarantula, I've kept other insects and spiders before, and generally with success. With this thing, every turn has been a mystery and there are no clear cut answers as to why it was having problems.

---------- Post added 02-26-2015 at 11:12 AM ----------

Indeed I was hasty. Its still moving a little bit, but its definitely in the death curl phase.

The laboratory I work at has a freeze dryer and so I might be able to preserve it.

I know that this spider is gone, but I hope people can help me identify the problem. I am having difficulty uploading the video of the tremors the spider had. Might need to make it a youtube video.


This was the basic set up. Behind the central most broad leaf, well hidden, was a silken lair. It wasn't very thick, but it was there. However, when it was healthy, its favorite place to be was on top of the log. When I first noticed it sick, it was near the very bottom of the log, and clinging to it near the ground.





I covered about 2/3 of the top with cellophane to help trap the moisture a little, but even this wasn't enough. The water dishes would dry out fast! That said, the substrate was damp even to the day I started getting rid of it.




In an effort to keep things somewhat humid, I layered the bottom of the cage with Hydroballs, with coconut choir over that. I would pour water into it until is 2/3 of the way full, so that the water didn't directly contact the coconut choir. This would also dry out shockingly quickly, but the substrate remained damp for a long time after the lower levels dried. There was no water in there cage when the tarantula died apart from what was in the water bowls, which I refilled regularly. That said, the coconut choir substrate was damp. Its possible that the tarantula was dehydrated, but then I imagine its condition would have improved if it got water, which I gave it.

In the photo, you can see roughly where the water level was, as there is still some condensation on the sides of the tank. there was no puddle of water however.





Any Advice would be appreciated.

That seems like a lot of moisture for an avic to me. Even though they are from a very humid region, anything living above the ground gets breezes and water dries faster. In captivity avics seem to do best with lower humidity than is recommended by most care sheets and good cross ventilation. If condensation is forming than it's likely too moist for an avic without sufficient ventilation. Avicularia is considered an intermediate genus based on the significantly narrower range of acceptable conditions for a favorable outcome.

although I'm hardly an Avic expert, I have learned from reading the advice given to other people about their avics they tend to not need so much humidity in their enclosures. The clay balls and water in the bottom like this is likely what killed your Avic. Whenever possible, simple is best. My Avics, per the information I've learned on the boards here, have about 1/2 inch of dry substrate on the bottom of their enclosures, lots of cross ventilation and access to a full bowl of fresh water. If you're bowl is drying out so fast, get it a bigger one. Also, the bowl you are using is one I've had problems with my enclosures. After a couple of months they seem to leach the water out of the bottom. I don't know why. I've heard this problem several times with other keepers as well. I now use mayonnaise or peanut butter lids as water bowls and this seems to be much more successful.

Don't beat yourself up though, you clearly were trying to do the best for your spider. Try again with another Avic, just as mentioned, DRY sub, lots of cross ventilation, (the enclosure you have is perfect for this), cover about half of the top screen to help create the micro climate.

Good luck.

Sana said:

That seems like a lot of moisture for an avic to me. Even though they are from a very humid region, anything living above the ground gets breezes and water dries faster. In captivity avics seem to do best with lower humidity than is recommended by most care sheets and good cross ventilation. If condensation is forming than it's likely too moist for an avic without sufficient ventilation. Avicularia is considered an intermediate genus based on the significantly narrower range of acceptable conditions for a favorable outcome.

Click to expand...

ratluvr76 said:

although I'm hardly an Avic expert, I have learned from reading the advice given to other people about their avics they tend to not need so much humidity in their enclosures. The clay balls and water in the bottom like this is likely what killed your Avic. Whenever possible, simple is best. My Avics, per the information I've learned on the boards here, have about 1/2 inch of dry substrate on the bottom of their enclosures, lots of cross ventilation and access to a full bowl of fresh water. If you're bowl is drying out so fast, get it a bigger one. Also, the bowl you are using is one I've had problems with my enclosures. After a couple of months they seem to leach the water out of the bottom. I don't know why. I've heard this problem several times with other keepers as well. I now use mayonnaise or peanut butter lids as water bowls and this seems to be much more successful.

Don't beat yourself up though, you clearly were trying to do the best for your spider. Try again with another Avic, just as mentioned, DRY sub, lots of cross ventilation, (the enclosure you have is perfect for this), cover about half of the top screen to help create the micro climate.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

I suppose that moisture part is what through me off. It seemed like that tank dried out almost too much, but when combined with the ventilation issue, I can see how stagnant conditions might have turned that moisture toxic for the tarantula.


I'm definitely willing to start again with another Avicularia! If only I could find another one! I'd love to try a slightly different species, but I haven't had any luck. I'd love to try an A. versicolor if I can get one.

In the meantime, I picked up a G. rosea as my second tarantula last saturday, and it seems to be off to a good start (its tank is of course, bone-dry apart from its water dish). I waited a few days then through in two crickets, which it ate pretty much immeadiately (the second cricket never touched the ground alive). I'll take this as a good sign! This one behaves more like the wolf spiders I am used to.

I have no plans to give up on this hobby!