1 Invert Left, but She's Hanging in There

I've taken a long absence from Arachnoboards, only recently returning to see what everyone has been up to, see what new information has been posted, and maybe even give out some advice to others. For those of you who don't know me or don't remember, I lost the majority of my collection - over 20 tarantulas, about 10 scorpions and various isopods, millipedes and others, due to my apartment's pesticide services. While they don't spray my unit and we were very careful to make our apartment as airtight as possible (turning off the AC, bagging our tarantulas and taping airholes the day of the spraying with the cages in the very center of our apartment and towels sealing the doors), it didn't seem to make a difference. We didn't even open the doors that day if we could avoid it. It didn't matter, we lost waves of invertebrates after every service, and I eventually gave up on the hobby, figuring I would stick to my more resilient animals - reptiles and mammals - until we move somewhere we can avoid pesticide exposure. I lost Elise, my black widow, a few months ago, but she lived a long and happy life. We captured her as an adult female, a hefty lady with stunning colors and an eggsac we left undisturbed, and she lived 3 long years in our care. More impressive, she had a successful post-ultimate molt and lived a year afterwards. I'm not sure why she was unaffected by the pesticides, but I'm glad she had a good life in our care.

We have one invertebrate left, ironically also my first ever invertebrate. Jasmine, my Grammostola rosea, seems completely unharmed by the pesticide exposure. She eats well and is as fiesty as ever. Right now she is standing on her tip toes, irritated with the new eco earth that is still just a bit too moist for her likings. I'll never understand how she's still with us, but I certainly appreciate the ugly, plain little tarantula more now than I ever did in the past. Sometimes disasters happen when you own pets, and I've certainly had more than my fair share of bad luck, admittedly extending far beyond invertebrates, but it's important to remain positive and appreciate the animals you have rather than getting hung up about the ones you've lost. As an animal rescuer and in some cases rehabilitator, I have lost more animals than I care to remember, but the animals I've saved and the chance to share my life with remarkable individuals of all species is worth the grief I have felt when things have gone wrong. If you are in a similar situation and mourning the loss of a beloved pet of any species, just remember that you are blessed to have shared your life with that animal, and that there are other animals out there in need of your care when you are ready.

Aviara said:

she had a successful post-ultimate molt and lived a year afterwards.

Click to expand...

Female spiders aren't like males, they continue molting throughout their entire lives, not mature then never molt again.

Either way, sorry to hear you lost most of your t's. I guess roseas bring a whole new meaning to the word hardy.

Sorry for the loss of your Ts
Ever thought of an OBT? aggressive but VERY hardy

My, that's really unfortunate. Throughout the years I've owned my fair share of invertebrates and have stopped for a reasonable amount of time as well after their passings. I can relate to you however, as I also have a female G. rosea who must be at least 10 years old at this point (I can't determine her true age since I've owned her for 7 years, but she's been adult size since I've obtained her back in 9th grade, but has molted 2 or 3 times since). She was the only invert pet to live past my angsty teen years and into my college years. I've grown to respect her and the species, for their hardiness and longevity extends longer than you realize until you actually own one. Nonetheless, she is also the reason why I decided to pursue the invertebrate collection hobby after a few years of being completely indifferent towards it. Right now in my college dorm I have a 5 inch juvenile vinegaroon and two S. polymorpha pedelings, which I would probably not have the audacity to acquire were it not for reconnecting with my G. rosea while decorating her enclosure. I also plan to get an S. alternans and an H. arizonensis soon. My rosea is at home with my other pets, and my mom actually likes her because she's not evil and actually seems to register when her water bowl gets changed (every two days).
I know my invert passings were not as sudden and upsetting as yours, but maybe they might inspire you to get more in the near future as they have for me. Here are just a few of them:
- Emperor scorpions - 3 males that lived for about 5 years under my care- each died within the same year as one another- all were mature and didn't molt when I acquired them- the largest one, Scorpio, I unintentionally bought on my birthday, which is in late October (Scorpio horoscope!), and he also was the last to die.... in late October
- Madagascan hissing roaches- started out as two females, one gravid, and became a colony of ~200 individuals within a year- died off within 2 years for some unknown reason- on the bright side, those 2 years were my bearded dragon's best years of his life, if you catch my drift
- B. vagans sling- raised it to a 4.5" juvenile before my ferrets knocked the enclosure over, allowing it to escape- the resilient little guy must have stayed alive for months afterward, as 4 months later I managed to find its intact body, still fresh, in the middle of my bedroom floor- I mounted it and its abdomen didn't look too shriveled, so I assume it succumbed to my floor cleaners and not desiccation or starvation.
- A. seemanni- my first tarantula ever which died from a wet post-ultimate molt- he lived for about a week afterward, but molted from a dull brownish coloration into a striking iridescent black
- Eurycantha calcarata- perhaps the most interesting and unique inverts I've owned (aside from the giant vinegaroon)- they were an adult breeding pair I got from an expo which lived for a good 6 months afterward- they indeed laid eggs, but about 4 months through the incubation process, I found them all to be infertile (insides all turned to dust)- I mounted the male (and buried the female) which still has his impressive femoral spines
- Chinese mantids- at least 3 wild caught specimens, all female, which laid multiple oothecae over the course of owning them, however being little and inexperienced, I wasn't able to effectively prevent the young from escaping and/or cannibalizing each other

I had quite a few others, but these were the most memorable ones, and I can't go on a long list, now can I lol. Anyways, I suggest you not let that unfortunate incident get you down, and perhaps whenever you feel the urge arising again, try taking more under your ownership in the future.

It sounds like it would be unsafe for you to get more ts at this point BUT true spiders are certainly an option as the wild spiders have become more tolerant of chemicals over time. It sucks that you can't control the spraying but large buildings usually have roach problems so they get sprayed regardless of health impacts on people and animals

Yes, female spiders of many species often have successful post-ultimate molts. Nevertheless, her longevity was outstanding and exceeded the longevity of widows kept captive by others in my area. My G. rosea has gone through 2 successful molts that were technically "post-ultimate", but for a female tarantula, these are much less remarkable.

I agree that true spiders may do better, especially wild caught specimens. I don't have a problem collecting native invertebrates, especially since I live in such an agriculturally active area and many wild spiders will not fare much better in terms of pesticide exposure out here in their local habitats. I've kept various wild-caught Centruroides scorpions, an Argiope aurantia that I later released - she left a beautiful, massive egg sac on our balcony before departing and it eventually hatched out, Rabidosa rabida and other wolf spiders, a solifugid, various mantids and phasmids, hellgrammites, etc. The wild-caught specimens never seem to succumb to insecticide exposure, but at the moment the only invertebrate in my care is my Grammostola rosea and I will be keeping it that way for awhile. Ironically, my building (which is rather small and segmented into many different, smaller buildings with a few units each) has a roach problem that my downstairs neighbors are struggling with (lucky for me they believe in holistic treatments and most of our newer neighbors don't use the pesticide services either) but with our huskies and our relative cleanliness we've never had a problem. We used to have an american cockroach or two pass through every month, since our building has very old plumbing, and a few of our neighbors even have problems with german cockroaches, but ever since adopting our second husky, Katara we never see insects in our unit. She's a fiend, she'll hunt and eat crickets, roaches, and she loves getting defrosted mice when one of my snakes decides not to eat. She does a better job of hunting than our cats did, yet she still gets along with our pet rats and other small animals.

EDIT: To add, I had an OBT, he reached about 1.5" before dying but was one of my first arachnids to have problems. Perhaps an adult would fare better, but I wouldn't want to risk endangering another tarantula regardless. Ironically my last two tarantulas to pass away were a 0.5" A. avicularia and a 0.75" L. parahybana. My first tarantula to die, and which exhibited the jerky movements I soon learned to expect shortly after insecticide treatments in my building, was a 4" native Aphonopelma.

Aviara said:

Yes, female spiders of many species often have successful post-ultimate molts. Nevertheless, her longevity was outstanding and exceeded the longevity of widows kept captive by others in my area. My G. rosea has gone through 2 successful molts that were technically "post-ultimate", but for a female tarantula, these are much less remarkable.

Click to expand...

Females DO NOT have "ultimate molts". This describes the molt in which a male matures. ALL females will continue to molt after they mature...they aren't even fully grown when they mature, unlike males. A female molting after maturity is not only "less remarkable", but its perfectly normal and every female that doesn't meet an untimely death will continue to molt repeatedly as it grows and ages....they just molt less frequently as they age.

People are taking things way out of perspective here and nitpicking. In males, the "ultimate molt" refers to the molt upon which the male reaches maturity. Thus, I was using the standard term of ultimate molt to refer to the molt upon which a female reaches maturity, not the last molt of a female's life. In black widows, it is very obvious when maturity is reached because they receive their black adult appearance at this point. We can argue semantics, but there is nothing wrong with referring to that as the "ultimate molt" as in the molt of maturity. All I was attempting to point out was that she had a successful post-MATURITY molt and had a remarkable lifespan - more than 3 years as a mature female in addition to her 6-9 months (estimating here of course) as a juvenile. Honestly, Elise wasn't a special snowflake, nor did she reach some absurdly old age, I was just sharing that at least one of my arachnids lived a long life and appeared to die of natural causes - not anything to do with a molt, just old age.

Of course it is important to be clear in our statements, but derailing a thread to point out that female spiders usually molt after reaching maturity - something most of us already know - is unnecessary.

Terminology is important and using incorrect terminology confuses people but OP is right, there are more important issues in this topic.

In my very humble opinion, it is extremely irresponsible, bordering on animal cruelty, to keep invertebrates in an apartment knowing that the building was going to be sprayed with pesticides. Obviously, you cannot make a unit airtight with towels and not relocating these animals to a safe place is just unacceptable.

I am glad what survived the ordeal has survived but I wholeheartedly support OPs decision to "give up on the hobby."

Najakeeper said:

Terminology is important and using incorrect terminology confuses people but OP is right, there are more important issues in this topic.

Click to expand...

I agree there are more important issues, but no, the op is not right and is indeed using terminology incorrectly and that correction is still important enough to mention, otherwise improper use of a term can spread quickly through the internet.

I wasn't trying to be a jerk by any stretch, I look at it this way, if I use a term incorrectly and no one ever says anything, how am I going to ever learn (or realize) how to use it correctly? Mentioning it is a quick easy way for someone to learn without going through years sounding a lot less informed than you probably are. If I were using a term incorrectly there is nothing more that I would want than to be corrected so that I didn't keep making the same mistake over and over, its just that simple in my mind. I believe in the adage do unto others as you would like them to do to you, and I certainly would want to be corrected and not just led to believe I was right so I could keep making the mistake, oblivious to the mistake.

Aviara said:

Of course it is important to be clear in our statements, but derailing a thread to point out that female spiders usually molt after reaching maturity - something most of us already know - is unnecessary.

Click to expand...

...no...what?! Female spiders don't "usually" molt after reaching maturity. They simply just keep molting until they die. All of them do. All female Ts molt until they die.

This is really messing with me because you're sitting there like- "Most of us already know this..." but you're 100% wrong. You sound so sure of yourself but you're really wrong.

cold blood said:

I agree there are more important issues, but no, the op is not right and is indeed using terminology incorrectly and that correction is still important enough to mention, otherwise improper use of a term can spread quickly through the internet.

Click to expand...

What I meant by "OP is right" was that there are more important issues in OP's post like letting her animals die! Was being sarcastic there. Of course the terminology is incorrect and you guys are doing the right thing correcting it.

miss moxie said:

...no...what?! Female spiders don't "usually" molt after reaching maturity. They simply just keep molting until they die. All of them do. All female Ts molt until they die.

This is really messing with me because you're sitting there like- "Most of us already know this..." but you're 100% wrong. You sound so sure of yourself but you're really wrong.

Click to expand...

I am not 100% wrong. I have never stated that female spiders die before molting again upon reaching maturity, nor did I ever state that they molt once upon reaching maturity and then die. As I pointed out, my G. rosea has already had two mature molts, and she likely has many years and many molts ahead of her. Female spiders DO usually molt after reaching maturity, some of them multiple times, others die before they molt. You're nitpicking even further. I'm not sure why you mentioned female tarantulas, since I was discussing a true spider - a Latrodectus mactans, not a female tarantula. Of course, the same applies to black widows - usually females molt after reaching maturity. I never pointed out how many times they usually molt, since that is varied and depends on the animal's longevity.

Anyway....to respond to what Najakeeper said, I fully agree. Honestly, we made many attempts to rehome our invertebrates but we live in a very small town and I only knew one person who shared my love of the hobby. It took us about 6 months to connect the deaths to insecticide spraying, previously we figured we were having bad luck with slings or our husbandry was somehow off. When we eventually connected the deaths with insecticide exposure, which took 6 months, or three treatment rounds of some of our neighbors' apartments, we made every effort to rehome the animals to a local enthusiast. The one person I knew in the hobby already had about 80 specimens and could not take in more, and no one else in the local area was interested or qualified to care for my collection. I did not consider shipping since we live in Texas and the temperature is rarely safe for shipment of any living creatures. Other users and others in the hobby have had similar issues - including living next to farms that spray their fields or neighbors that use pesticides and wipe out their collections. Our town even considered aerial spraying for mosquitoes the year Dallas did so, but luckily decided against it. I am extremely cautious with my animals' health and have always made sacrifices to ensure they are safe and exposed to as few toxins as possible. Unfortunately, in our society it is hard to avoid insecticides. It is a bit unfair to call something animal cruelty when we had our animals' best intentions at heart and believed the inverts would not be exposed to the insecticides when we picked out this apartment. We later learned that one of our downstairs neighbors had been independently treating for American cockroaches and had used "bug bombs" of their own initiative, and had even treated the yard underneath our air conditioner, and I believe this harmed our collection more than the routine spraying itself. We had neighbors who owned tarantulas that were not effected, so we had every reason to believe our tarantulas would be safe until they started dying. It wasn't until we realized the insecticides were to blame that we took further actions to try and protect our inverts on scheduled treatment days. I can honestly say I believe I gave it my best effort to save my collection, but no, I will not be bringing more invertebrates into this environment. I will not be rehoming my G. rosea, but only because she has done so well here for two years and I do not know of anyone who would be a suitable tarantula owner and who would be interested in her.

I hope this post ends this thread. Yes, I understand ultimate and post-ultimate molts. No, I would not have knowingly let my invertebrate collection get poisoned. Yes, I do love my animals and do everything possible to ensure they are healthy and content.