Poecilotheria communal question

pokie99

Arachnosquire
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
82
Hello,
I want to ask if someone has experience with P. smithi or P. miranda communals. I want to buy several slings and was wondering what would be best. The smithi slings are about an inch big and live together while the mirandas are a bit bigger and are kept separately. I'm leaning towards the smithi but everyone wants a miranda so I'm afraid they will be sold out until I collect the money for both species. What do you think? If the smithis don't make good communals, I'll just buy severs mirandas and keep them separately.
 
Last edited:

Angel Minkov

Arachnobaron
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
595
Communals are a lousy term. By housing them together you risk cannibalism and also part of the slings will hog food and intimidate the others. As far as I know mirandas are one of the best species to keep together, but I think they need to be sacmates.
 

succinct

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
28
I know people have done it before. But that speices does not matter, it is how they are kept. If they temps, humidity, feeding, and care is spot on, you can do it, for a time. But if you miss with one of those, well as it has been said, in the end there can only be one.
 

Poec54

Arachnoemperor
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
4,745
Poecs are not communal or social. Some species tolerate each other for varying amounts of time. Ornata are the worst, cannibalizing at 2nd instar; some metallica are just as bad. In the wild, when they have disagreements, one can leave. In captivity they're stuck together, artificially. Little problems can escalate into deadly fights. The ultimate book on Poecilotheria (Ornament Vogelspinnen), recommends only keeping several species of Poecs together after they're a year old. Most are recommended only up to 6 months old. There have been many group cages that went well initially, but ended up in a slaughter after a few years.
 

Dave Marschang

Arachnoknight
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
171
the problem with communal tanks, even with the animals that live in groups and wont kill each other is that there is a pecking order and those at the bottom will be stressed, wont get as much access to food, water, good hidey holes, basking areas and wont get the chance to be all that they could be.

even if you don't see problems they are there and usually by time you do see them its too late for someone.
 

pokie99

Arachnosquire
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
82
Thanks for the reply. I bought 4 smithis and I'll risk and try to house them together. I know about the cannibalism and aggression but I'll see what happens.
 

ratluvr76

Arachnodemon
Active Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
759
Thanks for the reply. I bought 4 smithis and I'll risk and try to house them together. I know about the cannibalism and aggression but I'll see what happens.
Please don't. What will happen is your spiders will kill each other. I'm not sure why you. Need to "try it and see" in this case. The brachypelma genus are NEVER a communal spider. Why would you do this? Do fight dogs for sport too??
 

ratluvr76

Arachnodemon
Active Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
759
pretty sure he means P.smithi
You're right... I see that now, I still advise against this plan. Poec already stated that poecies don't do well communally either. My advice still stands.
 

pokie99

Arachnosquire
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
82
I know about all of the things you said. I am aware of the possibility everything to turn out bad but this is an experiment. I know that I can't be around them 24/7 and everything could happen in a split second but all of my tarantulas are in my room so I check each one of them about 20 times a day so if I see something is going wrong, I'll separate them immediately. I'm not expecting everything to be great and if something happens, I won't be surprised. Thanks for the replies. I'll decide what to do. I'll probably separate them after some time. I respect Poec54 very much so I think I'll listen to his advice.
P.S. Sorry for the previous comment but I hadn't reloaded the page and didn't see all the other replies.
 

pokie99

Arachnosquire
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
82
Actually... you're right. I wouldn't risk their lives (no matter what I said in the previous posts). Forum communication makes a person sound not in the way he really thinks and also say things he doesn't really mean. I'm sorry to the ones that wanted to help the tarantulas and I didn't listen to them and I thank them for the advice. I care for the animals I care for maybe a lot more than some of the people here. I'm just curious: poecilotherias are some kind of a communal species although this may not be a good idea for the captive ones. From what I have seen, the ones that live in a community stay in groups (if they were like the non - communal species, they would eat each other or just keep a distance from each other) and also what poec54 said that in the wild they also sometimes live in groups. So that means it is a part of their natural behavior to sometimes live in groups and they've evolved in such a way to tolerate each other and sometimes live together. My question is: imagine we could provide a lot of space for several pokies to live in - would this be better for them instead of living alone? There will be a few deaths and a few that won't be as strong, but maybe the others will be stronger and will breed more easily. Theoretically, do you think living alone all their lives is better than living in communities they can leave if they want to? Do you think there might be a difference in their development and do you think there will be a better breeding chance if you introduce a male to such a female group instead of introducing them one by one (of course, with pauses for the male to produce sperm or just more males)? I'll separate the slings so an accident doesn't occur.
 

Poec54

Arachnoemperor
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
4,745
You're going off on a tangent and making some big assumptions. In the wild they don't live in groups, they share retreats when there's not enough to go around. It's not a permanent living arrangement, it's a port in a storm. That's why many group cages eventually fail. We force it on them and disagreements arise without anyone being able to walk away and cool down.

Poecs don't need to live together. Even when they get along, they still compete and hog food. When you raise slings to juveniles in group cages you see huge differences in growth, in a matter of months the food hoggers will be 2 to 3 times the size of the ones that get intimidated and usually go hungry. These are not social or communal animals, nothing like social insects. Poecs are solitary animals that share a hole in a tree out of dire need; doesn't mean they like each other. Other spiders means less food available for them. Sometimes they can put aide their cannibalistic tendencies, sometimes they can't. What matters to a Poec is what's best for it, not what's best for the group.
 

King Sparta

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
77
Just dont. Not going to end well. As everyone has stated, very bad idea. Even if you are there 24/7, one sudden rush and BAM!!! an expensive gorgeous T just died or was
injured. If you REALLY want a communal, get h. Incei or the new species of Psalmopoeus. The benefits are just not worth the risk.
Ultimately tho, it is your decision.
You have been warned.
 

cold blood

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,223
I know about all of the things you said. I am aware of the possibility everything to turn out bad but this is an experiment.
An experiment? Don't take this the wrong way, but just to be clear, you will not be the first to attempt this, its not an original experiment with unknown results....others have already made the attempt to prove the theory and the results have been in for a while. Repeating the same process and expecting or looking for different results is Einstein's definition of insanity.:)

Best of luck 99.
 

pokie99

Arachnosquire
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
82
Thanks for the replies. No need to tell me to separate them any more because I said I would move them and I did. I was interested in the possibility poecs to live communally because I have had read a lot of people saying their poecs do better communally and wanted to see if they do better that way. Now, that I know that they don't even do so in the wild, I won't do it.
P.S. I have two adult females H. incei kept separately.
 

Poec54

Arachnoemperor
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
4,745
I have had read a lot of people saying their poecs do better communally.
I can't see them doing better as a group. There's dynamics and stress that comes with competition. I'd say you're doing good if they do as well in a shared cage as they do individually. Especially considering that many group cages don't end well in the long run.
 

pokie99

Arachnosquire
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
82
Thanks for all the advice! I separated them and read some of your other posts about poeclotherias. I'm starting to become more and more interested in this genus (but I won't make communals) so maybe very soon I'll buy some new species. Too bad I don't know German but I may start learning.
 

Angel Minkov

Arachnobaron
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
595
They're definitely fascinating animals. My favorite genus, hands down. Hope I can collect the whole genus and breed them. I currently have 7 species of it.
 

Poec54

Arachnoemperor
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
4,745
Thanks for all the advice! I separated them and read some of your other posts about poeclotherias. I'm starting to become more and more interested in this genus
My favorite genus. There's nothing else like Poecilotheria, which is why a number of people around the world are fascinated with them.
 
Top