A.metallica

Dave Marschang · Mar 29, 2015

Well one of the A.metallica appears to have died yesterday.
she has looked rough for awhile, like she needed to molt.
for two days she was curled up on the floor of her tank but, everytime you looked she was curled up in a different spot, not really curled either but legs drawn in tight like a furry little ball. I checked on her yesterday morning and she was behind a plant in a deathcurl (belly down and legs actually curled underneath her this time. I prodded with a paintbrush and no reaction, so I gently moved her where the abdomen could be seen (her body was stiff)and left her alone.
24 hours later no change. still curled, still stiff, but her abdomen still looks tight and and feels firm to touch.
I don't know if shes actually dead or one of those tarantulas that look dead before a molt.
its a planted tank with lots of live plants and leaf litter so the humidity in the tank should be high enough to help speed along either a molt or decay of a dead body.
I honestly expected some sort of change already. we will see what happens.

cold blood · Mar 29, 2015

god61021 said:
Well one of the A.metallica appears to have died yesterday.
she has looked rough for awhile, like she needed to molt.
for two days she was curled up on the floor of her tank but, everytime you looked she was curled up in a different spot, not really curled either but legs drawn in tight like a furry little ball. I checked on her yesterday morning and she was behind a plant in a deathcurl (belly down and legs actually curled underneath her this time. I prodded with a paintbrush and no reaction, so I gently moved her where the abdomen could be seen (her body was stiff)and left her alone.
24 hours later no change. still curled, still stiff, but her abdomen still looks tight and and feels firm to touch.
I don't know if shes actually dead or one of those tarantulas that look dead before a molt.
its a planted tank with lots of live plants and leaf litter so the humidity in the tank should be high enough to help speed along either a molt or decay of a dead body.
I honestly expected some sort of change already. we will see what happens.

What's the level of cross ventilation? Do you have a water dish available? Pic?

Dave Marschang · Mar 29, 2015

exo terra tank so whatever cross ventilation the bottom front vent affords, large ish rock water bowl, moist substrate for the tropical plants. and let me see if I can pull off a pic but if you've seen my other attempts......

Dave Marschang · Mar 29, 2015

pics

and I apologize I forgot the wife added elevated water dishes to the avic enclosures

lalberts9310 · Mar 29, 2015

Yeah, screen top = bad. Avics likes dry substrate with a lot cross-ventilation (vents on the side, not the top)... they need humidity and the screen top prevented an adequate amount of humidity to be achieved since everything escapes through the top and no micro-climate forms within the enclosure, which your avic needed.. their substrate needs to be dry for avics with an occasional FEW droplets on the substrate, and misting against the webbing once a week for drinking purposes.. and a water dish. Screen tops are a bad thing for Ts. No micro climate, Ts chew through them and they might even get their claws and fangs stuck in it, may even lose a leg..

Dave Marschang · Mar 29, 2015

we are in process of figuring out the replacement of the screen with acrylic. that cannot be what killed the T though can it?

cold blood · Mar 29, 2015

A screen top will prevent any kind of a micro-climate from forming within.

The water dish should be at ground level as its your best humidity control. With a screen top the evaporating water just goes right out the top, and with it elevated, its not really helping anything below the dish...where the t was.

I certainly cannot say with any certainty it was the screen top of even the placement of the water dish though.

Its abdomen looks fine, so I don't think dehydration was the obvious problem.

Dave Marschang · Mar 29, 2015

I gotta mention the T was only in this enclosure for less than a week. and the Avic right next to it in an identical cage is showing no signs as of yet of not being comfortable. I will get two thirds of the screen replaced with plastic tomorrow. I cant let the substrate dry out completely because of the live plants. I will add a larger rock bowl to the bottom.

I'm also trying to get
acrylic enclosure of the same dimensions made now and can vent them however I need, but in the mean time will have to make these work for the avics. I do have smaller avic enclosures made up with no vents on top, vents on both sides and drop away bottoms,that are like 4.5x4.5x11 but I would hate to stuff an adult avic in one of those.

DVMT · Mar 29, 2015

Was this a wild caught avic or did you raise it from sling/juvie?

lalberts9310 · Mar 29, 2015

god61021 said:
we are in process of figuring out the replacement of the screen with acrylic. that cannot be what killed the T though can it?

It possibly could be a factor, I wouldn't dismiss it..

---------- Post added 03-29-2015 at 08:57 PM ----------

god61021 said:
I gotta mention the T was only in this enclosure for less than a week. and the Avic right next to it in an identical cage is showing no signs as of yet of not being comfortable. I will get two thirds of the screen replaced with plastic tomorrow. I cant let the substrate dry out completely because of the live plants. I will add a larger rock bowl to the bottom.

I'm also trying to get
acrylic enclosure of the same dimensions made now and can vent them however I need, but in the mean time will have to make these work for the avics. I do have smaller avic enclosures made up with no vents on top, vents on both sides and drop away bottoms,that are like 4.5x4.5x11 but I would hate to stuff an adult avic in one of those.

Well I don't know what possibly went wrong if it only was in there for a week.. best idea to replace those tops, and put in cross ventilation, they need airflow from the sides without humidity escaping..

Chemicals, fumes, smoke etc can also be a controbuting factor. I also make my own enclosures with acrylic cast sheets, it's way better to adjust the enclosure to the needs of the T.

Dave Marschang · Mar 29, 2015

don't know if it was wild caught but I suspect it was. we bought it at the NARBC in tinley park 2 weeks ago. as far as fumes go there is no smoking/chemicals allowed in the tarantula room.

this T ate a giant male dubia its first day home, we originally had it in one of those plastic gallon jars with the screw top lid you buy from Walmart. the lid was mostly screen and no other vents. figured the exo tera with the bottom front vent and more room was better.

cold blood · Mar 29, 2015

That previous gallon jar could be to blame....those aren't too good for avics, without cross venting they're bad, add moist sub(not sure if that's how you had it) and its basically a big death trap.

I assume it was a glass jar :unsure:

Dave Marschang · Mar 29, 2015

plastic. but thought with the screen lid holes in the side would be too much ventilation. was I wrong?

cold blood · Mar 29, 2015

Wrong type of ventilation. Do it one way (top venting) and every bit of humidity gained by the water bowl or even damp sub just leaves right out the top and accomplished nothing, not to mention that airflow suffers, especially in the lower half. Vent from the sides and not only does it have better airflow throughout the enclosure, but the rising moisture (evaporation) doesn't escape as it rises.

It would have been an easy fix, just drill holes in the sides and block the top with saran wrap or something...done.

Ellenantula · Mar 29, 2015

cold blood said:
It would have been an easy fix, just drill holes in the sides and block the top with saran wrap or something...done.

Maybe he can try these ideas with the other one and it will fare better.

cold blood · Mar 29, 2015

Ellenantula said:
Maybe he can try these ideas with the other one and it will fare better.

My understanding from others that use them is that the enclosure he's currently using does have adequate cross venting, the screen top just needs to be mostly covered.

14pokies · Mar 30, 2015

Exo-terras have great cross ventilation but plugging up the vent holes with sub renders them useless... Take out about an inch of sub and the airflow will be much better!

I wouldn't completely cover the screen lid.. Leave about an inch uncovered... These guys need to breath fresh air and its not going to circulate properly if your relying on just those low vents..

I would almost guarantee you that your setup didn't kill your T.. I have used exos in the past and know tons of people that still use them and have no problems...

Did you rinse the plants off really well before you put them in there? They could of had pesticides on them..

Dave Marschang · Mar 30, 2015

the substrate is below the vents, but I can remove more to be sure and we did rinse the plants BUT, I'm sure they could of been rinsed better.
its one of them jobs you make sure you do but you do half ass cuz its never been a problem. maybe this time it was?

Dave Marschang · Mar 30, 2015

shes gone, legs curled tightly under, abdomen was soft. I've covered all but two inches of the top screen but left it open in the back opposite of the floor vents. will add a big water bowl on bottom to increase humidity.

CEC · Mar 30, 2015

14pokies said:
Exo-terras have great cross ventilation but plugging up the vent holes with sub renders them useless... Take out about an inch of sub and the airflow will be much better!

I wouldn't completely cover the screen lid.. Leave about an inch uncovered... These guys need to breath fresh air and its not going to circulate properly if your relying on just those low vents..

I would almost guarantee you that your setup didn't kill your T.. I have used exos in the past and know tons of people that still use them and have no problems...

Did you rinse the plants off really well before you put them in there? They could of had pesticides on them..

I agree, your exoterra didn't kill your metallica. Avic collectors I know and I have a bunch of Avics in exoterras, absolutely no problems. Adult Avics are hardy, the slings and juvies are a different story. As far as screen tops go, IME I have never had a problem with any Avic. As long as you have a water bowl for drinking and good ventilation (like an exoterra provides), Avics are more likely to survive.

Was your metallica CB or WC?

P.S. even in the best setup known to man, your Avic (or any T) can kick the bucket. Sorry for your loss.

A.metallica

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