Newbie Question!

Freakish · Apr 9, 2015

I've had my tarantulas for a couple of weeks now. It started out with an N. Chromatus and turned into an additional G. Pulchripes and a L. Parahybana. All have been upgraded to 4"x3" deli cups. The shop I got them from has me offering food daily and they are all taking food daily. The L. Parahybana had a pretty thin abdomen and is finally fattening up a bit but the G. Pulchripes is starting to look a bit chunky (he's the biggest, about the size of a silver dollar). The N. Chromatus looks to be at a healthy weight, though I am saying all of this with an untrained eye. I keep a small pvc "t-valve" in each of their cups for hiding and the G. Pulchripes has burrowed under it. He is by far the most food-driven of the bunch. My question to you all is how often should I be feeding them/what should I be feeding? I'm in Florida so the only roaches I have access to are discoids and I've had no luck with those. Everyone is currently on appropriate sized crickets.

Thank you in advance for your advice and I apologize for the newbie question, hopefully I gave enough information for a thorough answer and advice.

ETA - I'm sure this is one of your favorite questions from newcomers but at what size is sexing reasonable?

cold blood · Apr 9, 2015

Welcome to a fascinating hobby.

You picked decent ones to start with, better than a lot of newbies.

I'll start this out with the #1 rule of t's: Never rely on an LPS for advice on t's, very, very few offer sound advice, even the better ones. My LPS is pretty good, but I still wouldn't tell you to go there for t advice. Not only are they not typically well schooled, they also tend to sell you a lot of things that are not needed, or even detrimental to the animal (like heating pads/rocks/lamps).

Feeding every day is a bit much, although if they are kept warm and the prey items are very small, it s just fine. I like to give them a couple days to digest and I keep them warm. The bigger the prey and the lower the temps, the less frequently you will need to feed them. Feeding them daily, if they are indeed eating every time, will only really cause them to fast for a longer time before molting, but molts will come quickly, but probably not much quicker than say, an every 3 day schedule. I say this because I typically get molts at a 25-35 day rate for my faster growing slings and I really don't see how much faster it could really get....I mean, it takes a certain amount of time to grow a whole new exoskeleton, and it doesn't start right after it molts, as it needs time to harden.

As they plump up, like your pulchripes, slow down the feeding, eventually it will surprise you and refuse food as it begins to prepare for a molt. And the thin abdomen is simply a sign that it had recently molted, t's always come out of molts with smaller abdomens, sometimes really small....its all part of the process, there's no emergency to fatten them up as fast as you can.

Basically any prey item that the t can quickly subdue is appropriately sized

All 3 of your species are very food motivated, you'll see that as they grow. Lp's are garbage disposals, N. chromatus are ALWAYS hungry (and both grow fast), and while G. pulchripes is the slowest growing, most "predictable" of the group, they are also the most prone to fasting for long periods prior to molting. But between molts, and especially just after, they are quite enthusiastic eaters. Mine used to come flying across the enclosure and tackle prey, doing barrel rolls...often eating while still upside down or in odd positions. Good burrowers, too....especially when smaller.

All 3 will get to 7" (if female), with the LP having the possibility of 8 and in rare cases a bit bigger.

Don't worry about sexing them yet

Freakish · Apr 9, 2015

cold blood said:
Welcome to a fascinating hobby.

You picked decent ones to start with, better than a lot of newbies.

I'll start this out with the #1 rule of t's: Never rely on an LPS for advice on t's, very, very few offer sound advice, even the better ones. My LPS is pretty good, but I still wouldn't tell you to go there for t advice. Not only are they not typically well schooled, they also tend to sell you a lot of things that are not needed, or even detrimental to the animal (like heating pads/rocks/lamps).

Feeding every day is a bit much, although if they are kept warm and the prey items are very small, it s just fine. I like to give them a couple days to digest and I keep them warm. The bigger the prey and the lower the temps, the less frequently you will need to feed them. Feeding them daily, if they are indeed eating every time, will only really cause them to fast for a longer time before molting, but molts will come quickly, but probably not much quicker than say, an every 3 day schedule. I say this because I typically get molts at a 25-35 day rate for my faster growing slings and I really don't see how much faster it could really get....I mean, it takes a certain amount of time to grow a whole new exoskeleton, and it doesn't start right after it molts, as it needs time to harden.

As they plump up, like your pulchripes, slow down the feeding, eventually it will surprise you and refuse food as it begins to prepare for a molt. And the thin abdomen is simply a sign that it had recently molted, t's always come out of molts with smaller abdomens, sometimes really small....its all part of the process, there's no emergency to fatten them up as fast as you can.

Basically any prey item that the t can quickly subdue is appropriately sized

All 3 of your species are very food motivated, you'll see that as they grow. Lp's are garbage disposals, N. chromatus are ALWAYS hungry (and both grow fast), and while G. pulchripes is the slowest growing, most "predictable" of the group, they are also the most prone to fasting for long periods prior to molting. But between molts, and especially just after, they are quite enthusiastic eaters. Mine used to come flying across the enclosure and tackle prey, doing barrel rolls...often eating while still upside down or in odd positions. Good burrowers, too....especially when smaller.

All 3 will get to 7" (if female), with the LP having the possibility of 8 and in rare cases a bit bigger.

Don't worry about sexing them yet

Thank you for the wonderfully informative reply! I dabbled in tarantulas a few years ago but never got past the research stage so these impulse purchases weren't a TOTAL blindside but I will say that I haven't the slightest clue as to what I'm doing!
They are sitting at about 78F (I have a reptile tank in the closet next to where they are and that's what the probe reads with no heat source). With that temperature, should I be feeding more often, even if not every day like I have been? Both my chromatus and my Lp were purchased with molts in their cup, my pulchripes was not and has not molted in my care.

I've read a lot about pre-molt, how can I recognize this? Is it purely fasting or is there more to identifying it? My chromatus seems to be very timid and curls in very quickly when disturbed. I've been worried that her sudden shyness is a sign of pre-molt but there is so much contradicting information online I try not to even "google" things anymore and would much rather just come here.

My boyfriend manages the shop and with both of us well-versed in reptiles, their reptile care is on-point but I will admit they do not know much about tarantulas. He keeps jumping spiders but that's the extent of it. I have been urged to handle their adult pulchripes but I don't like the idea of doing that with an adult T I don't observe on a regular basis. I have considered handling mine but he's such a voracious eater I'm afraid I'm just asking to be bitten.

While I'm thinking about it, when I was rehoming them all to the new, taller deli cups a couple days ago, I caught my Lp's leg (the very tip) in the lid as I was closing it. It did not fully snap shut but it was pinned to the point she couldn't move, is there a chance I harmed her? She was extremely interested in being on the side after I switched them, the little spitfire. She constantly drums at me and pulses her legs up in a threat pose when I am in her cup for maintenance or feeding. I just love their personalities!

Blueandbluer · Apr 9, 2015

Premolt will look different for different spiders, I'm afraid. But it can often involve one or more of the following: hiding, fasting, clumsiness, or darkening of color. With some spiders it's days, some can be in premolt for months.

You'll find most of us here are anti-handling. Those who handle do so for their own enjoyment, the spiders themselves will never really like it. And it's dangerous for them, as falls can be deadly.

It's unlikely that you seriously injured the spider whose leg you pinned. While of course I wouldn't recommend being careless, since they have 8 legs, a single leg isn't that important. Had you injured it badly, the spider would have pulled it off herself.

Sana · Apr 9, 2015

Freakish said:
They are sitting at about 78F (I have a reptile tank in the closet next to where they are and that's what the probe reads with no heat source). With that temperature, should I be feeding more often, even if not every day like I have been? Both my chromatus and my Lp were purchased with molts in their cup, my pulchripes was not and has not molted in my care.

I've read a lot about pre-molt, how can I recognize this? Is it purely fasting or is there more to identifying it? My chromatus seems to be very timid and curls in very quickly when disturbed. I've been worried that her sudden shyness is a sign of pre-molt but there is so much contradicting information online I try not to even "google" things anymore and would much rather just come here.

My boyfriend manages the shop and with both of us well-versed in reptiles, their reptile care is on-point but I will admit they do not know much about tarantulas. He keeps jumping spiders but that's the extent of it. I have been urged to handle their adult pulchripes but I don't like the idea of doing that with an adult T I don't observe on a regular basis. I have considered handling mine but he's such a voracious eater I'm afraid I'm just asking to be bitten.

In my experience with N. chromatus, they are mostly pretty shy, at least as slings. That tendency increased with all of mine in premolt, to the point of total disappearance for a couple weeks for most of them. All of their abdomens also got incredibly black and shiny. They have had the most pronounced premolt darkening of any species that I have experience with.

I keep my tarantulas at 74-80F and feed every 3-4 days for my slings and garbage disposals. My non garbage disposal (slower metabolism NW) adults eat every 7-10 days depending on the individual. I keep track of how much and how often each of my individuals accepts prey for the first month or so that I have them and that gives me a pretty good idea of each one's pattern. Here in Colorado I actually refill water dishes about twice as often as I feed any of them. I always worry more about access to water than I do food, as tarantulas can survive for an unexpectedly long time without food but not nearly so long without water.

As far as handling goes, I used to do so. These days though I don't intentionally handle any of my tarantulas. If my avic takes a stroll onto me when I open the container I don't flip out, but even the most consistently even tempered individuals have a bad day now and then. In my world something venomous with 1" fangs having a bad day is not what I want on my hand or anywhere else on my person.

I do love your choice in species. Very pretty and plenty of personality in that bunch. I happen to have a thing for larger, more voracious eaters. They can occasionally be a little challenging when you're doing maintenance but the diving, rolling tackle of prey is worth any amount of attitude that gets directed my way. Enjoy your new friends!

cold blood · Apr 9, 2015

Freakish said:
Thank you for the wonderfully informative reply! I dabbled in tarantulas a few years ago but never got past the research stage so these impulse purchases weren't a TOTAL blindside but I will say that I haven't the slightest clue as to what I'm doing!
They are sitting at about 78F (I have a reptile tank in the closet next to where they are and that's what the probe reads with no heat source). With that temperature, should I be feeding more often, even if not every day like I have been? Both my chromatus and my Lp were purchased with molts in their cup, my pulchripes was not and has not molted in my care.

I've read a lot about pre-molt, how can I recognize this? Is it purely fasting or is there more to identifying it? My chromatus seems to be very timid and curls in very quickly when disturbed. I've been worried that her sudden shyness is a sign of pre-molt but there is so much contradicting information online I try not to even "google" things anymore and would much rather just come here.

My boyfriend manages the shop and with both of us well-versed in reptiles, their reptile care is on-point but I will admit they do not know much about tarantulas. He keeps jumping spiders but that's the extent of it. I have been urged to handle their adult pulchripes but I don't like the idea of doing that with an adult T I don't observe on a regular basis. I have considered handling mine but he's such a voracious eater I'm afraid I'm just asking to be bitten.

While I'm thinking about it, when I was rehoming them all to the new, taller deli cups a couple days ago, I caught my Lp's leg (the very tip) in the lid as I was closing it. It did not fully snap shut but it was pinned to the point she couldn't move, is there a chance I harmed her? She was extremely interested in being on the side after I switched them, the little spitfire. She constantly drums at me and pulses her legs up in a threat pose when I am in her cup for maintenance or feeding. I just love their personalities!

Your reptile room is great, that's about what I keep my room at, you should see good growth. And no, you don't need to feed every day, as I illustrated, every 3 days with those temps gets amazingly fast molts, I have 16 little N. chromatus and they all molt inside 30 days and they're fed every 3 days.

Sana and blue are right, pre-molt is pretty obvious with chromatus slings, it doesn't always look exactly the same, but its always obvious...their abdomen almost looks like a bloated tick, then it darkens and gets shiny....actually they sometimes get shiny right away. With the other species you'll notice the skin on the abdomen darkening, they may also become more agitated and flick hairs leaving bald areas, which exposes the skin better for you to see. The femurs also blacken and they tend to either burrow or hide and often times block themselves in a bit either with substrate or webbing. If they are in a place you can observe, just prior you can often see them making a molting mat, which gives them a flat webbed area to molt on.

When they get dark, just leave them be and be patient, as said, it could take days or months, its really just a waiting game.

N. chromatus are indeed a very skittish species...as slings, as juvies and even often times as adults. They spook easily, even though they eat very well, and they are prone to hair flicking when disturbed....and they have some of the worse hairs out there :wink:

And yeah, best not to handle, they're not like reptiles in that fashion. You have nothing to gain and everything to lose by handling. Best to treat them like fish. Ultimately its your choice, but the more we learn (and have to lose, as bans can and do happen), and the greater number of fast, skittish, and/or highly venomous and defensive species increase in both popularity and availability the less popular handling has become within the hobby.

Don't feel you need to give in to the request of the reptile guys and handle...how often does peer pressure lead somewhere good....lol

And if they use the "so you're afraid" or anyone who doesn't handle is afraid, please recognize what they say as simple ignorance.

This is your chance to educate the reptile guys as to the significant differences and help them to keep them good and give the best advice possible.....a lot of people take their word as gold because they don't know and better than to ask the LPS.

You don't need to put any of them in a taller deli cup, all these species are terrestrial and require ground space, not height. 16oz deli cups, like you might get fried rice in from the Chinese restraint, are great for slings 2.5" and under. Over 2" and you can start to rehouse and if you use a kk, as many do, 2" is about the minimum size.

Freakish · Apr 10, 2015

First off, THANK YOU ALL for the wonderful advice and recommendations!

So far I have been lucky that none of them have kicked at me. The only one I think has even considered it was my pulchripes. He has raised a back leg like he was going to then, almost as if to play if off, put a bit of webbing on the substrate and used it to pin it down before walking away. When mentioning my chromatus burrowing or closing herself in somewhere, will she do that in her PVC? I think it's an inch wide so therefore much larger than her at about the size of a dime. I've never seen her burrow and she didn't in the cup at the shop, either.

I would like to experience handling my pulchripes but like I said, as voracious of an eater as he is, I am fairly confident I will be mistaken and bitten. Maybe he will calm down as he ages, maybe not, but until then, I am staying away from that. It's also what makes me hesitant to handle the shop pulcripes, having only seen what mine does and being nervous to handle him at his size, let alone one that can do real damage. I also have an extremely weak immune system and a one year old to think about. I can't really compare them to fish because I am also in the fish keeping hobby and I train my fish to tolerate handling for transport purposes. I have a betta and a goldfish, though, that isn't the case for all species. I also handle my reptiles (though I currently only have a crested gecko) and usually keep handle-able species. I fully understand that they gain nothing from it and it is purely for our enjoyment.

I will switch over to feeding them every three days so I don't end up harming them. The last thing I want are obese spiders. I'm not sure how many ounces their delis are but they are 4" wide and about 3" tall. I have them filled halfway with "hemit crab soil" which I believe is the same thing as the "tropical soil" you can buy. It was just a much smaller compressed disk as opposed to an entire brick. Their old delis were 4" wide as well but only about 1.5" tall and they couldn't even sit on the side sprawled out which was the reason for the move. I've considered moving my pulchripes to a small KK but I just wasn't sure and I like that they are all in the same-sized containers. It makes them easier to move for feeding and such.

Do I have other food options besides crickets? The crickets REAK and I cannot stand it. I have some meal worms but I had asked before and was told they wouldn't provide a complete diet for my creepy crawlies so I haven't offered them. They don't seem too interested in discoid nymphs, either.

All and all, I'm glad I chose nice, personable species. I almost bought an Oriental Baboon (not sure on scientific name) over my bird eater but I didn't even feel ready to open his deli and look at him, let alone own him. The chromatus is the first tarantula I ever wanted and I am thrilled I will get to watch her (please be a her) grow and thrive in my care. I am also ecstatic about my pulchripes but I haven't owned my LP long enough to get a good feel for her. So far they are all such a joy to keep and you all are a joy to talk to. I spend hours reading through threads on here. I'm really wanting a B. smithi but I don't want to overwhelm myself, either. I'm trying to keep adult enclosures in mind and not get too excited.

Thank you again.

los3r · Apr 10, 2015

Mealworms are fine to feed.

Poec54 · Apr 10, 2015

los3r said:
Mealworms are fine to feed.

Only if the spider grabs them immediately, before they can dig into the substrate and disappear.

cold blood · Apr 10, 2015

Freakish said:
I can't really compare them to fish because I am also in the fish keeping hobby and I train my fish to tolerate handling for transport purposes. I have a betta and a goldfish, though, that isn't the case for all species.

Do I have other food options besides crickets? The crickets REAK and I cannot stand it. I have some meal worms but I had asked before and was told they wouldn't provide a complete diet for my creepy crawlies so I haven't offered them. They don't seem too interested in discoid nymphs, either.

First off, thanks for the laugh with the "I train my fish to tolerate handling" line...that was a good one, I can only assume comedy was your main point there.

As for feeders, you are not limited, mealworms, waxworms (and they moths they become) and even superworms as they get larger, are all acceptable feeders and I utilize all of them. Worms are a bigger, fattier meal (which makes them great for feeding just after molting), so I tend to give a little more time between feedings if a worm was the last meal....Its likely best to change it up a bit, although there has not been much research into tarantula nutrition, so the benefits are actually more of an assumption than a scientific fact. Feed them whatever they will eat, some are picky and won't eat certain items, but the species you have all tend to not be picky at all, so you shouldn't have an issue with them accepting any food item you offer.

Click to expand...

Freakish · Apr 11, 2015

Actually, no. I was being serious. My betta is trained to be cupped rather than handled per se but is trained, none the less. He is also trained to come to the surface for food when I tap on the side of the tank (he is going blind - dragonscale). Netting a betta can damage their fins and being out of the water can cause issues with their labrynth organ - the one they utilize to breathe air. Goldfish are often trained to tolerate handling for both medicinal and transport purposes, among others. It is not an uncommon practice in the "serious" goldfish community. Some will not tolerate handling no matter how long you work with them but for the most part, it can become nothing more than a mere nuisance to the fish when it has to be done. Due to the genetic deformities that make fancy goldfish what they are, a lot of keepers feed based on weight and for that they must be transported to the scale without water. Again, with large fins, nets can be damaging leaving handling the only option.

I will definitely be switching them to mealworms, then. I cannot STAND these crickets and am happy to have them out of my life. What is the difference between mealworms and giant mealworms? Just the size or are they a different species? Not superworms, giant mealworms. I've been curious and haven't gotten around to asking. Also, will the T's starve themselves if I offer a prey item they don't want consistently?

cold blood · Apr 11, 2015

Trained and conditioned are different things not to be confused.:wink:

Chances are that your t's won't be that picky, I wouldn't worry about them starving themselves to death, as that's highly unlikely. Your species are all very good eaters.

I've never heard of giant mealworms, sounds like superworms, but as you differentiated between the two, I'm guessing they're something different. If the t can take em down, they can be fed.

Freakish · Apr 12, 2015

Hmm, I'll have to do some digging of my own and get back to you on the worms, then.

One last question (for now).... I've decided that getting a third spider (my LP) wasn't my best decision and have come to the conclusion that I am going to sell her. I can't return her to the store she came from as it's been too long. If I advertised her on here, what is a going price for them? I paid $25 for her and she's about the size of a quarter. What are the chances I'll get my money back on her?

ratluvr76 · Apr 12, 2015

Mealworms are sometimes treated with hormones that make them grow bigger hence, giant mealworm.. Not to be confused with super worms which are a different species the meal worms.

cold blood · Apr 12, 2015

Freakish said:
I've decided that getting a third spider (my LP) wasn't my best decision and have come to the conclusion that I am going to sell her. I can't return her to the store she came from as it's been too long. If I advertised her on here, what is a going price for them? I paid $25 for her and she's about the size of a quarter. What are the chances I'll get my money back on her?

Unfortunately getting your money back after paying LPS prices will be no easy task...you'd have to really take somebody. LP's are really abundant and cheap, I've seen 1"ers going for less than $10 fairly regularly....20 would be really on the high end IMO. If the store would return it, go that route....ya can always get store credit for stuff you already buy anyway...like those giant mealworm thingies:wink: Thanks for the description Ms. purplehair :wink:

Freakish · Apr 12, 2015

Yeah, that's what I thought. I need to see if I can find my receipt.. Or just talk to my boyfriend. They only do store credit returns anyways so that's my only option.

Ellenantula · Apr 12, 2015

ratluvr76 said:
Mealworms are sometimes treated with hormones that make them grow bigger hence, giant mealworm.. Not to be confused with super worms which are a different species the meal worms.

Yeah, I only recently learned mealworms and superworms were two different things. I had thought superworms were the mealworms treated so they would grow big big and not pupate.
Then after reading up on superworms, realized they do pupate, if contained individually.

I think this would be important information for people to know when ordering mealworms if they have breeding in mind.

Sana · Apr 12, 2015

All of my tarantulas seem to prefer wax worms over meal worms. I prefer them as well. They don't burrow nearly as fast as meal worms and super worms.

ratluvr76 · Apr 12, 2015

cold blood said:
Unfortunately getting your money back after paying LPS prices will be no easy task...you'd have to really take somebody. LP's are really abundant and cheap, I've seen 1"ers going for less than $10 fairly regularly....20 would be really on the high end IMO. If the store would return it, go that route....ya can always get store credit for stuff you already buy anyway...like those giant mealworm thingies:wink: Thanks for the description Ms. purplehair :wink:

hmph.. shows what you know. My hair is now Black Cherry.. ;P

gobey · Apr 12, 2015

Poor LP

But yeah I got a 4 inch one for $30 off the classifieds here.

Last pet store spider I bought was about $22 more than the online price for the same T. Probably smaller too.

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