Not a great moult.

Tim Benzedrine

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Of all the tarantulas, it had to be my A. genic. Can't tell how bad it is yet, don't want to disturb her right after a moult. The stuck carapace is probably not a big deal, though it kind of looks like it might obstruct some movement but i think her abdomen looks pretty funky. Anybody want to offer anything in the way of a prognosis?
 

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Hobo

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Doesn't look like anything too serious, looks like the top of the old abdomen is just barely stuck on there.
I bet if you'd just grab that carapace with tweezers, you would be able to peel it off; I've had similar happen many times, it's always done the trick.
 

Tim Benzedrine

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Thanks for the advice and positive prognosis. I hope it isn't too bad. Do you think I should give it at least 24 hours to recuperate, or would that just make matters worse? I want all of my tarantulas to be healthy, but this one had been on my most-wanted list for a long time, so naturally I'm extra concerned.

Edit: I did remove the carapace, bit it was all that came free. I went ahead with that because it seemed like it could possibly impede with her leg. She wasn't too happy about being disturbed and took a swing at the forceps. and that pulled the carapace free. I'm hoping she did not hit the forceps with her fangs. In any case, the abdomen still has a layer on it, but i'm not going to bother her any more. I figure it the unshed skin will either A)fall off (best case, but I'm unsure of the likelihood) B) She will rub it off (again not sure of the chances) C) It will come of with the next moult or D) I can assist if it seems to become loosely attached (Least desirable step).
 
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Hobo

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If I wasn't sure how hard it's stuck on (it's hard to tell without being there in person) I'd give a few days for her to harden, and try gently grabbing that carapace and seeing if I could just peel it back.
If it's stuck on good, I'd increase humidity to soften it up a bit and try again.
From the pics though, it looks like it should be no problem, even in the unlikely event it had to stay that way.

...It's like looking at an old elbow scab, I just wanna pull it out.
 

Londoner

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I've also had this happen now and then over the years. I just used tweezers like Hobo has suggested and gently pulled at the stuck portion. With regards to the timeframe, I came home from a two week trip to find one of my B. smiths had molted while I was away and had some of the old exo still stuck just like yours. The T had fully hardened and the fangs were black but the remnants still came off easily with a gentle tug from the tweezers.

Good luck Tim.

Edit: just noticed your edit. As long as the old abdomen skin is not interfering with the spinnerets or silk production then I'd leave it till the next molt. It may be a bit scruffy looking but shouldn't cause any issues.
 
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milky

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Everything will be fine, just be careful while removing the old molt.
 

Tim Benzedrine

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Thanks, Hobo, Lomdoner and Milky!

The spinnerets seem to have been cleared upon a cursory exam, but I'll want to look mor closely when she has recuperated, of course. I am going to raise the humididty a little, which may have precipitted the problem in the first place. I thought it was probably sufficient, however, I may have over-ventilated a bit when I was preparing the new housing,
I soaked the substate on one side and intend on blocking a few of the vent holes, at least temporarily. I'm not planning on turning it into a sauna or a swamp, of course. I want to see if her movement is natural as well. And then, when I am reasonably sure I will not exacerbate the problem, and if she will allow it, I will gently grab a piece of the stuck shed and see if it will peel of when SHE moves, I will not pull. My only concern is that since she is a bit skittish.

Unfortunately, after finishing that last sentence, I went to take a closer look at her, and she had turned around where i could get a different view. And I think it may be much worse than it appeared last night. This could be very bad. I have no experience with a bad moult, but it looks to me like she lost a layer of the new exuvium. Naturally, I am heart-sick.
 

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Londoner

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I'm not gonna lie Tim, that looks worrying. I'm assuming there's no leakage from the affected area?
 

Tim Benzedrine

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Well, see the wet looking area to the left of the raw-looking area? I presume that is hemoglyph. I fear the worst.
 

Londoner

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If it is leaking haemolymph, your first priority is to stop it. Do you have any cornstarch you could apply to the area? Even if you're not sure that it's losing fluid the cornstarch won't hurt . The only thing to do then is monitor the T closely to make sure the abdomen is not starting to deflate or shrivel and maybe have an ICU set up in case it continues to leak. It's not ideal to mess with them this soon after a molt but it looks like the lesser of two evils right now.

Good luck mate, fingers crossed for you.
 

Angel Minkov

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ICUs are just out of the question. Increase temps and humidity, in my opinion, and dont overfeed her to limit the chance of future ruptures from falls and such. There was a guy whose P. rufilata had something similar and it had no problems.

Good luck, Tim.
 

Tfisher

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that looks bad tim :( I rescued a p cancerides from a LPS today ( free of charge). They said it was dying... and it was because they thought it was a good idea not to supply a water dish. Extreme dehydration. I have the adult female in ICU as we speak dripping water in her mouth. Im worried for your tarantula tho. I agree with cornstarch, super glue on the abdomen is just asking for trouble with the next molt. But its better to live today to fight again another day. ( or however that phrase goes). lol

Good luck.

-Thomas
 

Hobo

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That angle does reveal something more worrying than I thought.
Good news is she doesn't appear curly or anything.
I would make sure she has water readily available, but would refrain from applying anything to the wound (unless it's visibly dripping/leaking). I've found their blood to clot just fine on it's own, even abdomen wounds.
The most important thing would be water, so make sure she can get to it easily.
Other than that, feed sparingly as mentioned until the next molt (you don't want to add undue physical stress that can make things worse), which will hopefully correct (or at least improve) this problem.
 

Felidae

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Ouch :(
Once I saw a Brachy who survived with skin-grafting. A piece was cut from the old exu and super-glued in the missing patch. The glued part wasn't inside but around the hole and covered the missing part. In the next molt she's regenerated.
 

Tim Benzedrine

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Thanks. It is still alive, and seems to be doing the post-moult stretches. Since there was no advice not to do so at the time, I did attempt to apply some corn starch. I've just now on preview seen the recommendation not to try it. It was difficult and i wasn't able to get much on target. A big concern was getting the stuff on her eyes. However, it does look a little less raw now, from what i can see. i still am not going to hold too much hope, but it hasn't entered a death-curl yet, if in fact it will even bother to do that, and it must be mobile as it turns around. So, i suppose there is a slight chance that if the leakage has ceased and it is able to harden, it may mend. But that is not the outcome I expect. A graft would be of course way out of my skill range, i can't even apply corn starch efficiently

I wonder what the time-span could be where I could think "Wow, he may be coming out of the woods? If it is still alive in a week? Two weeks? I want to hold hope, but that is difficult to do. When a tarantula loses fluids, how long can they cling to life? I carefully took another picture. The corn starch was a bit of a fail, every time I'd start to sprinkle it she would shift plus the damned stuff wanted to stick together rather than lightly dust because it is so fine. I'm embarrassed by my attempt at care, so try to keep the criticism constructive, I'm already in a pretty deep depression over this. It could drive me straight out of the hobby. Having said this, I don't think it looks as moist. Do you folks think it looks any better (excluding the cornstarch) than it does in the other picture? Is it even possible that it will be able to regenerate the lost tissue? Man, it was such a pretty spider. :(
 

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Londoner

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Tim, it's been 24 hours and there are no signs of curling so there's been no significant leakage which is good. Don't fret over the cornstarch, it's never a neat and tidy procedure. If you couldn't discount the possibility that the T was loosing fluid then it was worth trying, and like I said it won't harm the T at all (even the eyes). The main thing is that the T appears mobile and is performing it's post-molt yoga which are encouraging signs.

Your T isn't done yet ….not by a long way so take heart and try to keep your chin up. You already mentioned that you've taken steps to increase humidity which is good. Stay positive Tim

Good luck.
 

Tfisher

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It makes me happy to hear (s)he is stretching. I think their is a good amount of life in that genic. Keep us posted. Where can I send get well soon cards? Or maybe an assortment of crickets and roaches. :) your spider is in good hands.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

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Thanks, Hobo, Lomdoner and Milky!

The spinnerets seem to have been cleared upon a cursory exam, but I'll want to look mor closely when she has recuperated, of course. I am going to raise the humididty a little, which may have precipitted the problem in the first place. I thought it was probably sufficient, however, I may have over-ventilated a bit when I was preparing the new housing,
I soaked the substate on one side and intend on blocking a few of the vent holes, at least temporarily. I'm not planning on turning it into a sauna or a swamp, of course. I want to see if her movement is natural as well. And then, when I am reasonably sure I will not exacerbate the problem, and if she will allow it, I will gently grab a piece of the stuck shed and see if it will peel of when SHE moves, I will not pull. My only concern is that since she is a bit skittish.

Unfortunately, after finishing that last sentence, I went to take a closer look at her, and she had turned around where i could get a different view. And I think it may be much worse than it appeared last night. This could be very bad. I have no experience with a bad moult, but it looks to me like she lost a layer of the new exuvium. Naturally, I am heart-sick.
Oh man sorry to hear about your spider. Hope he/she pulls thru this rough time. Keep us updated.



Jose

---------- Post added 04-29-2015 at 07:35 AM ----------

Thanks. It is still alive, and seems to be doing the post-moult stretches. Since there was no advice not to do so at the time, I did attempt to apply some corn starch. I've just now on preview seen the recommendation not to try it. It was difficult and i wasn't able to get much on target. A big concern was getting the stuff on her eyes. However, it does look a little less raw now, from what i can see. i still am not going to hold too much hope, but it hasn't entered a death-curl yet, if in fact it will even bother to do that, and it must be mobile as it turns around. So, i suppose there is a slight chance that if the leakage has ceased and it is able to harden, it may mend. But that is not the outcome I expect. A graft would be of course way out of my skill range, i can't even apply corn starch efficiently

I wonder what the time-span could be where I could think "Wow, he may be coming out of the woods? If it is still alive in a week? Two weeks? I want to hold hope, but that is difficult to do. When a tarantula loses fluids, how long can they cling to life? I carefully took another picture. The corn starch was a bit of a fail, every time I'd start to sprinkle it she would shift plus the damned stuff wanted to stick together rather than lightly dust because it is so fine. I'm embarrassed by my attempt at care, so try to keep the criticism constructive, I'm already in a pretty deep depression over this. It could drive me straight out of the hobby. Having said this, I don't think it looks as moist. Do you folks think it looks any better (excluding the cornstarch) than it does in the other picture? Is it even possible that it will be able to regenerate the lost tissue? Man, it was such a pretty spider. :(
The best thing to do just leave it alone don't put any of that stuff that you put on it. Hope for the best Tim don't let it get you down.



Jose
 

Tim Benzedrine

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Thanks for the encouragement, everybody. She is still alive. Not stretched today, but not curled. I do still see some glistening on the bare spot. I guess time will tell. Of course, food would not be offered for at least a couple weeks under normal circumstances, so withholding it won't be a big issue.

She strolled across the enclosure, and sat for a bit on the substrate I had dampened. I don't know of she stopped by her water dish or not.Currently she is sort of hall-perched on her hide with her front legs holding on the top edge and her hind-most legs on the substrate. Er- scratch that, I just looked, she is on top of it! There is very little danger of a fall, but I sort of wish she'd forgo the gymnastics, but I suppose she knows what she is doing and I should be glad she just doesn't huddle up, or worse, curl up. And that doesn't really strike me as the behaviour of a spider that is at death's door. She seems to be trying to live life as usual. She is not crippled, obviously. Really, she is acting pretty much like she did on a daily basis. Now, animals are famous for hiding the extent of their afflictions in order not to appear vulnerable, but I'm going to try to look at all of this as a positive sign. In a couple weeks, assuming she is still with me, I will attempt a light feeding. I'm a little concerned about any secondary infection, but I guess I can't have much control over that.
I'm chronicling all of this in case somebody finds themselves in the same predicament. If it turns out well, it may give them hope, and if not, well, at least they might know what to expect, for better or for worse.

Jose, since we puzzled out her "lineage" I had been thinking, "Man, I hate for Jose to see this happening!" I was very excited about all of that, which adds to the sting of the disaster. Maybe she will pull through, though. Like I've said, she was my "dream" tarantula, the only real goal I had ever set as far as a specific acquisition. So I am trying to be cautiously optimistic.
 
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