Making the jump to topsoil, give me a pep talk

Cavedweller · May 3, 2015

Now that I'm setting up some larger enclosures for my growing Ts, it's no longer viable to use cocofiber exclusively, but I've always been scared of getting a bag of topsoil tainted by chemicals or pesticide or something. I talked to another bug keeper at the LPS about his substrate preferences. He said he had the exact same fears when he made the jump, and recommended to me a brand. Now I've got my big bag of dirt and several empty tanks. All I need is courage.

Any of you had trouble with topsoil as sub? Or am I just worrying about nothing?

wastedwoodsman · May 3, 2015

BECAUSE no one has posted yet, I am just stopping in to say 1. I know nothing of T's and 2. I wish you the best of luck and try not to stress yourself out by over thinking things! I have a feeling you are going to do very well with your T's as you seem to care for all your pets! I wish you the best of luck!

cold blood · May 3, 2015

Its more and more logical to make the switch as you increase your stock. Its not something you should worry a second about as long as its fertilizer/pesticide free and not organic, as that very often has dung or compost added instead, which is a different route to the same result.

It holds well, is easy to work with. It doesn't poof dust in your face when dry, (god I hate that), and when you wash it off, you don't have to pick out fiberous pieces from the sink and it tamps down more firmly, with less effort...and it holds moisture well, is great for burrowing, looks as good or better and the cost is not comparable...like comparing a Bugatti to a civic price wise...now imagine that civic being faster and better than the Bugatti at the same price point....no one would ever buy a Bugatti and civics would be sold out everywhere....hehe.

4 quart bag of jungle mix = $6.50. Good for just one decent size KK, you'd need a couple for a 15 gal.

vs.

40 POUND bag of topsoil = $1.37 at my Home depot. Poec pays about $4 at the home depot in Fla., so while prices vary a bit regionally, its always very, very cheap, especially compared to coco fiber/jungle mix/etc.

Cavedweller · May 3, 2015

Oh, the stuff I got is organic, thanks for the heads up! The guy who recommended it seems to have no problem using it for his snakes and centipedes. What problems can organic soil with dung/compost cause?

I guess I gotta haul this 80 lb bag back to the store XD

Poec54 · May 3, 2015

Actually topsoil down here is $1.50 for a 40 lb bag. That's all I use for my whole collection. Great stuff. Holds it's shape for burrows and tunnels. Besides being cheap, it's natural, what spiders live in, unlike cocofiber (few animals live under falling coconuts).

cold blood · May 3, 2015

Cavedweller said:
Oh, the stuff I got is organic, thanks for the heads up! The guy who recommended it seems to have no problem using it for his snakes and centipedes. What problems can organic soil with dung/compost cause?

I guess I gotta haul this 80 lb bag back to the store XD

Both dung and compost are additions that both break down and attract pests. Not to mention it often just smells bad.

miss moxie · May 3, 2015

cold blood said:
Both dung and compost are additions that both break down and attract pests. Not to mention it often just smells bad.

Talk about a real.........crappy situation.

It makes sense though if you think about it. If you have a dog and go outside on a nice summer day when you haven't picked up the poo, or you've ever been around dog poo on a hot day-- you'll notice all the flies buzzing around it. You don't want that.

skar · May 3, 2015

I tried the top soil for a bit in the past, and it did not perform well for me.
Mold grows fantastic in it.
As I've posted before peat moss is the best in my experience.

Ellenantula · May 3, 2015

Never used topsoil only coco fibre -- but then, I don't have enough Ts that cost is an issue yet.
But not sure why mold would grow more in one substrate than another; I always view mold as a dampness issue.

One day I might wanna try topsoil because I believe the burrowing capabilities may be better (or at least, less reliant on heavy webbing to hold the soil together as coco-fibre requires)

truecreature · May 3, 2015

I bought the 40 pound bag a few months ago and have yet to use it; it's absolutely full of large and small clods that won't break apart and I have this thing about needing my sub to be smooth ;p Been meaning to try sifting it out, but once the clods are gone there's not going to be that much left of the smoother dirt.

cold blood · May 3, 2015

Ellenantula said:
Never used topsoil only coco fibre -- but then, I don't have enough Ts that cost is an issue yet.
But not sure why mold would grow more in one substrate than another; I always view mold as a dampness issue.

One day I might wanna try topsoil because I believe the burrowing capabilities may be better (or at least, less reliant on heavy webbing to hold the soil together as coco-fibre requires)

I've never had an issue with mold...like you said, if you're getting mold, there are other issues to contend with. Coco fiber molds too under the right (or wrong) conditions...I've seen it myself and in so many posts I couldn't count.

raisinjelly said:
I bought the 40 pound bag a few months ago and have yet to use it; it's absolutely full of large and small clods that won't break apart and I have this thing about needing my sub to be smooth ;p Been meaning to try sifting it out, but once the clods are gone there's not going to be that much left of the smoother dirt.

You can't be afraid to get your hands dirty...its dirt, it breaks up easily, you just have to wash your hands afterward

Roosterbomb · May 3, 2015

I mix coir with my soil as it gives me more control over moisture. It also changes the ph of the soil making it harder for mold to grow.

Ellenantula · May 3, 2015

cold blood said:
You can't be afraid to get your hands dirty...its dirt, it breaks up easily, you just have to wash your hands afterward

Oh no, I subscribe to that old belief that gardening and getting a little dirt under your nails is better than any other therapy in the world.
Something about getting your hands down in dirt is very relaxing, a return to the basics .... nature.

One day I will make the switch to topsoil.

Cavedweller · May 3, 2015

Thanks for the input, everyone!

miss moxie said:
Talk about a real.........crappy situation.

It makes sense though if you think about it. If you have a dog and go outside on a nice summer day when you haven't picked up the poo, or you've ever been around dog poo on a hot day-- you'll notice all the flies buzzing around it. You don't want that.

I guess I assumed compost was broken down enough to not attract flies. I've never had the opportunity in my life to do a lot of gardening so I'm not the most knowledgable hahaha

Roosterbomb said:
I mix coir with my soil as it gives me more control over moisture. It also changes the ph of the soil making it harder for mold to grow.

This is what I planned to do. Cocofiber is more acidic and that's why it inhibits mold, right?

viper69 · May 3, 2015

I'm always worried about mold so I stick with fibre for now

Cavedweller · May 3, 2015

viper69 said:
I'm always worried about mold so I stick with fibre for now

Mold would be dependent on how damp you keep your Ts, right? I could see it being a problem with Ts who like it humid, but probably not so much with desert Ts. I'm more scared of introducing mites or something than mold.

Alright, I returned my dirt and got a bag of regular topsoil (this particular one has peat mixed in). I gave just one T the topsoil for now, and if nothing goes wrong in the next few days I'll use it for the rest.

Poec54 · May 3, 2015

Cavedweller said:
Mold would be dependent on how damp you keep your Ts, right?

Ventilation is part of the formula.

DVirginiana · May 4, 2015

I've found that mold tends to be more dependent on what you leave in the cage than the humidity. I use eco-earth (for my frogs mostly) but I have yet to find something growing due to just the humidity. Every time I've found something growing in one of my frog or invert tanks it's been waste or leftover food that I've somehow missed. Like Poec said, proper ventilation will also greatly minimize the risk of mold.

klawfran3 · May 7, 2015

To The people who use topsoil already, what's a good brand? I'm about to make the jump myself but I would like to know if there are any specific brands I should look for instead. Tried and tested, right?

Poec54 · May 7, 2015

klawfran3 said:
To The people who use topsoil already, what's a good brand? I'm about to make the jump myself but I would like to know if there are any specific brands I should look for instead. Tried and tested, right?

They'll be local brands depending on where you are. I get Timberline from Home Depot ($1.50 bag), comes from Georgia. I doubt they're shipping that to all 48 states. That's a lot of freight cost for dirt.

Making the jump to topsoil, give me a pep talk

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