Poecilotheria sexing question

pokie99 · May 26, 2015

Hello,
Sorry if this has been discussed already and if it's a stupid question, but I wanted to ask if there can be differences in spermatheca development between a smaller species from this genus (ex. metallica) and a larger (ex. regalis)? I'm asking because I have a female metallica and an unsexed regalis at the same size (about 5"; L8). I could see a small spermatheca on the last molt of the metallica, but nothing on the one of the regalis. At first, I thought it was male, but then I showed it to a breeder and he said it might be female. Can the spermatheca of the larger species develop slower than the smaller one's? I've attached pictures of the regalis. Thank you in advance.

lalberts9310 · May 26, 2015

Looks extremely female IMO, especially when looking at the vent, not sure about spermethecae development, hopefully someone more experienced can chime in. but I've heard with smaller Ts sometimes spermethecae can be hard to locate with the naked eye, I also think it has something to do with when the specimen is going through the maturing stages.. since spermethecae will be darker on mature females and lighter on immature females.. and since p. metallica matures at a smaller size than regalis if I'm not mistaken? But again, this is my two cents, and I'm no expert.. so am curious as to what the more experienced members have to say

pokie99 · May 26, 2015

Thanks for the reply! I really hope it's a female. I don't have any other experience with regalis, so I don't know the size at which the spermatheca of this species is visible. It does look female on the ventral side. We'll see what the others have to say.

Poec54 · May 26, 2015

That regalis is female. You don't see the spermatheca (which are internal), but do see the prominent shiny white lips at the vent, with nothing above them (a dark or light spot, either round or U shaped). When an adult female Poec is on the side of it's cage, you can see the white slit from across the room. I'm not 100% on vent sexing on young Poecs, but I'm 70-80% depending on the species and size. I usually vent sex mine at around 2". Poecs are usually accommodating by resting vertically on the cage sides. I keep a flashlight handy and make a label.

In addition, although this is secondary and sometimes misleading, the folium is fading from black to grey, while simultaneously the carapace colors are vivid and distinct. Best to rely on the vent, and use the dorsal colors to reinforce your guess. Using dorsal colors alone with most Poecs can get you into trouble. Ornata males fade a couple molts before maturity, and a few others also fade, but to a lesser extent.

lalberts9310 · May 26, 2015

Rick, I think OP was talking about not seeing spermathecae on the exuvium and was wondering when spermathecae will be visible on an exuvium (by naked eye)

And +1

pokie99 · May 26, 2015

Thanks for the reply. I've had this tarantula since it was L5 - 6. I thought that I would be able to see the spermatheca on this molt and was surprised when I didn't see anything. Yes, I have also looked at the vent and the furrow is more opened. So, the other question: is it normal for a larger poec species the spermatheca to develop later compared to smaller species?

---------- Post added 05-26-2015 at 03:42 PM ----------

lalberts9310 said:
Rick, I think OP was talking about not seeing spermathecae on the exuvium and was wondering when spermathecae will be visible on an exuvium (by naked eye)

And +1

Sorry, I hadn't reloaded the page and didn't see your post. Off topic: what does OP mean?

lalberts9310 · May 26, 2015

pokie99 said:
Sorry, I hadn't reloaded the page and didn't see your post. Off topic: what does OP mean?

"Original post" or "original poster" as far as I know

---------- Post added 05-26-2015 at 11:17 PM ----------

pokie99 said:
Thanks for the reply. I've had this tarantula since it was L5 - 6. I thought that I would be able to see the spermatheca on this molt and was surprised when I didn't see anything. Yes, I have also looked at the vent and the furrow is more opened. So, the other question: is it normal for a larger poec species the spermatheca to develop later compared to smaller species?

IMO I think it's normal.. since I think Ts with a larger known maximum leg span will enter their maturing stages later than a T that has a smaller known maximum leg span.. again, just my two cents, and I'm no expert

Poec54 · May 26, 2015

pokie99 said:
is it normal for a larger poec species the spermatheca to develop later compared to smaller species?

You can vent sex any specie of Poec at around 2 or 2 1/2".

lalberts9310 · May 26, 2015

+1 Rick, also remember at that size when sexing via exuvium that spermathecae will be invisible to the naked eye, so you'll need a microscope..

Sana · May 26, 2015

Definitely a female. I generally vent sex as soon as I can see clearly, which I agree on most species across the majority of genera (I think that is the appropriate plural but I'm not so good at terminology please correct me if I'm wrong so I can learn) is somewhere around 2-3". I will confirm by exuvium around 3-4" as I don't think that I will ever be 100% accurate with every tarantula I come across.

Pokie Master · May 26, 2015

Yet again that is without any doubt a female. It's possible it was stuck flat and you didn't see a spermathica. Metallica are the worst to sex especially at smaller sizes.

Angel Minkov · May 27, 2015

Lets not forget Pokies have relatively small spermathecae.

lalberts9310 · May 27, 2015

Pokie Master said:
Yet again that is without any doubt a female. It's possible it was stuck flat and you didn't see a spermathica. Metallica are the worst to sex especially at smaller sizes.

Yes, but his metallica is confirmed female

it's his regalis he's struggling with

pokie99 · May 27, 2015

Thanks for all the replies! I don't think the spermatheca was stuck because I would have seen it when I put the molt in front of a lamp. Maybe it's too early. But all of you said it's female and it really looks female on the ventral side. And, yes, the metallica is a female. Actually, from what I have seen, metallicas are easy to sex...

Pokie Master · May 27, 2015

lalberts9310 said:
Yes, but his metallica is confirmed female it's his regalis he's struggling with

I guess I should have specified that I was just stating I knew his Metallica was female and that the regalis is also female. I was just stating the fact that most pokies throw people off when it comes to molt sexing due to small and sometimes very transparent spermathica.

Storm76 · May 29, 2015

Granted my personal experience with Poecies is very small so far (only raised one subfusca from sling to MM so far and currently raising a couple mirandas and a fasciata), but in comparison to being correct with sexing my other T's, my Poecs seemingly trick me somehow. The best example is my fasciata - the molt before the newest one it didn't show any spermathecae, which was reinforced by the look of the T leading me to assume male. The newest molt now go munched and sadly exactly the part I would've needed, is lost somewhere in "her" cage. I'm saying her, because ventrally when the T is sitting on the side on the enclosure I can easily see the lips mentioned now. In addition, at around 6" now (measured from outside while she was sitting on the side) she looks very vividly colored, lost dorsally the black into a nearly completely faded grey. I'm at loss and actually surprised that I couldn't find any spermathacae the molt before this, but now the T looks very female. I'm confused, lol.

Poec54 · May 29, 2015

Storm76 said:
Granted my personal experience with Poecies is very small so far (only raised one subfusca from sling to MM so far and currently raising a couple mirandas and a fasciata), but in comparison to being correct with sexing my other T's, my Poecs seemingly trick me somehow.

I learned vent sexing on Poecs, as I have a bunch of them and they're usually on the sides of their cages. I keep a flashlight handy and check them.

Angel Minkov · May 29, 2015

I sex my Pokies at 2''. They're on the sides of their cages most of the time and a flashlight, like Rick stated, really helps a lot. Ever since I started studying my Ts with a flashlight I started seeing them in a different light (pun intended). Terrestrials are harder to sex for me, especially those like G. pulchra, N. chromatus and so forth.

Storm76 · May 29, 2015

Poec54 said:
I learned vent sexing on Poecs, as I have a bunch of them and they're usually on the sides of their cages. I keep a flashlight handy and check them.

The funny thing is with most of my other T's, I was usually right sexing them before I checked the molt even. But with Poecies...I dunno. Probably just not used to them enough yet

Pociemon · May 31, 2015

Storm76 said:
The funny thing is with most of my other T's, I was usually right sexing them before I checked the molt even. But with Poecies...I dunno. Probably just not used to them enough yet

It is more easy to sex the ones you are used to. I have 90% tree living T´s right now, 10% being avics and the rest poecs. I rarely make mistakes ventral sexing those, but that is not the same good statistic with other T´s....

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