Aphonopelma Chalcodes Seems Distressed

FireSpider

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I have a 3.5" or so Aphonopelma Chalcodes, confirmed female, purchased from a highly reputable dealer. I've had her for a month now, but she doesn't seem to have ever"settled in" like my others. She'll run circles around the cage and scrabble wildly at the glass trying to climb for hours (she never makes it more than a few inches up before sliding back down, but this doesn't seem to discourage her). She's also kicked hairs to the point her butt is completely bare. She has eaten a few times, but not nearly as aggressively as my other Ts. I know tarantulas can be weird, but this doesn't seem right.

She's in a 10 gallon cage with about 5" of bone-dry Eco-earth bedding, an appropriately-sized half log hide (which she'll sit on top of but never under), and a large water bowl. The temps are 70-76 degrees or so. Her set-up is identical in every way to those of my rose hairs, all of which are fat, calm, and generally seem content in every way. I thought the husbandry for all desert species was pretty much the same, but maybe there's something special A. Chalcodes needs? I'm thinking of adding more bedding since she can't climb over the edge like my rose hairs, and maybe some different choices of hides, but really don't know what else I could try. Any ideas would be appreciated.

By the way, there's no pattern to when she freaks out running and scrabbling either.
 

Poec54

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She doesn't feel secure in her cage. I have some AF chalcodes and they're calm, and on dry bagged top soil. 'Reputable dealer' has nothing to do with it. It's not like shady guys are selling high-strung spiders out of the truck of their car.

She may not like the cocofiber (I don't like it myself). Is the water bowl sunk in the substrate?
 

Anubis77

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Can she burrow or does the dry coconut fiber collapse? She may be feeling exposed. A. chalcodes are burrowers. Try a smaller hide or let her burrow by soaking the substrate enough for it to hold together. They don't particularly appreciate constant bone-dry conditions from my experience; in the wild, they dig far enough to reach damp soil. You'll never find them in completely dry conditions. They seal themselves in to keep the microclimate up when it gets too hot.

Soak the substrate, let her make a web-reinforced burrow and let it dry out. Periodically moisten it, but even if you don't, the burrow should hold together and provide a proper retreat for her.
 

DVMT

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She may not like the cocofiber (I don't like it myself).
Yeah, Poec tried some cocofiber and was crawling all over the walls until he finally changed his living room back to top soil. I'm just glad you are feeling better with your top soil carpet now, Poec! ;)
 

cold blood

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I once read that something is worth 1000 words, but I can't seem to recall what it was...neither can the op:laugh:

Could be any number of small issues, like previously mentioned....could be as simple as its pre-molt.

Poec asked if the water dish was sunk into the substrate...I'll ask the same question, but with regards to the hide. A common mistake people make with their hides is to just set them on the sub...they are much more desirable to the t if they are sunk down in the sub, this makes the space beneath it tighter, and more desirable for the t to hide in/under...it will also help encourage burrowing beneath it.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

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The issue of what I'm reading is, the size of the enclosure for a 3.5" inch spider. There is no need to give a 3.5" inch spider that much space.
 

FireSpider

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'Reputable dealer' has nothing to do with it. It's not like shady guys are selling high-strung spiders out of the truck of their car.
Lol! I mostly meant that I know she was sexed correctly and properly cared for.

She may not like the cocofiber (I don't like it myself). Is the water bowl sunk in the substrate?
Yes, her water bowl is sunk so it's only about half an inch above the substrate. (See below about the cocofiber)

Can she burrow or does the dry coconut fiber collapse? She may be feeling exposed. A. chalcodes are burrowers. Try a smaller hide or let her burrow by soaking the substrate enough for it to hold together. They don't particularly appreciate constant bone-dry conditions from my experience; in the wild, they dig far enough to reach damp soil. You'll never find them in completely dry conditions. They seal themselves in to keep the microclimate up when it gets too hot.
Well, my B. Vagans had no trouble building herself a burrow in fairly dry Eco-earth. I've never seen the A. Chalcodes even try to dig, but I will definitely try soaking the bedding on one side of the cage and see if that helps (since she can't climb, I don't want her to have nowhere to escape the moisture if she hates it). The curly hairs have amazingly elaborate burrows, but of course their bedding is kept moist. What you say about microclimates makes perfect sense, though I would've thought the same for rose hairs and they made it abundantly clear they disagreed (I found Arachnoboards looking for an answer to why my rose hair was living on his lid).

The reason I'm using the Eco-earth is because the potting/top soil they sell around here is extremely wet and with our ridiculous humidity levels it would take weeks and weeks to dry out enough for a rose hair, assuming it ever even did. I also worry that with how it holds moisture, it would cause serious mold problems. I already had to clean mold out of my curly hair's cage once just because she knocked her water bowl over a couple of times, but since nothing ever dries in our summer humidity, that was all it took to grow mold.

If moistening the Eco-earth and adding a smaller hide still doesn't work, I will try soil, though.

Thanks for all the great advice! I'll make sure to update with what works.

---------- Post added 07-09-2015 at 06:38 PM ----------

Sorry for the double-post. I missed replying to a post.

I once read that something is worth 1000 words, but I can't seem to recall what it was...neither can the op:laugh:

Could be any number of small issues, like previously mentioned....could be as simple as its pre-molt.
Pretty sure she's not in pre-molt as she ate just 5 days ago and her abdomen isn't very fat. Not much point in posting a picture now, as I'm about to cup her and rearrange her cage as soon as I finish dinner, but I'll post one after I'm done.

Poec asked if the water dish was sunk into the substrate...I'll ask the same question, but with regards to the hide. A common mistake people make with their hides is to just set them on the sub...they are much more desirable to the t if they are sunk down in the sub, this makes the space beneath it tighter, and more desirable for the t to hide in/under...it will also help encourage burrowing beneath it.
Yes, the hide is sunk pretty low in the bedding.

The issue of what I'm reading is, the size of the enclosure for a 3.5" inch spider. There is no need to give a 3.5" inch spider that much space.
I know she doesn't need that much space, but the 10 gallons were on special sale and she'll need it when she's full grown anyway. I have several other tarantulas of similar size in 10 gallon cages and they don't seem to mind.
 

Roosterbomb

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My a chalcodes is happy in her enclosure and seemed to be since day one. I used excavator substrate,started a burrow, and never looked back. 10 gallons is a massive tank add some hides and stuff.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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Lol! I mostly meant that I know she was sexed correctly and properly cared for.


Yes, her water bowl is sunk so it's only about half an inch above the substrate. (See below about the cocofiber)


Well, my B. Vagans had no trouble building herself a burrow in fairly dry Eco-earth. I've never seen the A. Chalcodes even try to dig, but I will definitely try soaking the bedding on one side of the cage and see if that helps (since she can't climb, I don't want her to have nowhere to escape the moisture if she hates it). The curly hairs have amazingly elaborate burrows, but of course their bedding is kept moist. What you say about microclimates makes perfect sense, though I would've thought the same for rose hairs and they made it abundantly clear they disagreed (I found Arachnoboards looking for an answer to why my rose hair was living on his lid).

The reason I'm using the Eco-earth is because the potting/top soil they sell around here is extremely wet and with our ridiculous humidity levels it would take weeks and weeks to dry out enough for a rose hair, assuming it ever even did. I also worry that with how it holds moisture, it would cause serious mold problems. I already had to clean mold out of my curly hair's cage once just because she knocked her water bowl over a couple of times, but since nothing ever dries in our summer humidity, that was all it took to grow mold.

If moistening the Eco-earth and adding a smaller hide still doesn't work, I will try soil, though.

Thanks for all the great advice! I'll make sure to update with what works.

---------- Post added 07-09-2015 at 06:38 PM ----------

Sorry for the double-post. I missed replying to a post.


Pretty sure she's not in pre-molt as she ate just 5 days ago and her abdomen isn't very fat. Not much point in posting a picture now, as I'm about to cup her and rearrange her cage as soon as I finish dinner, but I'll post one after I'm done.


Yes, the hide is sunk pretty low in the bedding.


I know she doesn't need that much space, but the 10 gallons were on special sale and she'll need it when she's full grown anyway. I have several other tarantulas of similar size in 10 gallon cages and they don't seem to mind.
I'm just telling you from experience my friend. If you think the size of the enclosure is not an issue, than don't change anything at all.
 

mmfh

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I've had tarantulas settle in right out of the shipping box and then I've had others who take months. The one adult female I bought took forever, not eating readily and hiding all scrunched up... I'd say for almost 4 months. Now she is starting to build one heck of a neat looking burrow. I attribute it to her having been very used to the way her other owners kept her and then having to get used to the way I kept her. Personnally; I'd make sure she couldn't hurt herself, put her in a smaller enclosure (as suggested above), and give her time.
 

Poec54

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If bagged top soil is too moist, like for my east/south Africans, I either pour some in a cardboard box or spread some out on newspapers on the floor for a few days. Using a fan hastens the drying process.

This is not an insurmountable problem.
 

FireSpider

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I'm just telling you from experience my friend. If you think the size of the enclosure is not an issue, than don't change anything at all.
I know you have a lot of experience, so I won't discount the idea that she'll be happier in a smaller cage. If all the changes I made in her cage don't make her happy, then the next thing I'll try is putting her over into the extra critter keeper I have.

I've had tarantulas settle in right out of the shipping box and then I've had others who take months. The one adult female I bought took forever, not eating readily and hiding all scrunched up... I'd say for almost 4 months. Now she is starting to build one heck of a neat looking burrow. I attribute it to her having been very used to the way her other owners kept her and then having to get used to the way I kept her. Personnally; I'd make sure she couldn't hurt herself, put her in a smaller enclosure (as suggested above), and give her time.
Maybe some Ts just have a difficult time settling in then. All my others were happily settled in within days of getting them, so this seems very worrying to me, but I don't have that many. She definitely can't hurt herself. She's no good at climbing and I don't put a bunch of decorative crap in my cages that she could break a leg on in her scrabbling (just hides with terrarium moss over them to cushion against falls and a water dish).

For now the spider has deep, moist bedding, two different sized hides, and the cage was moved from my noisy, bright apartment to my mother's quiet bedroom in the main house, so they'll be less activity around her (don't worry, Mom has Ts of her own and wanted it, lol). I'll post back if anything changes, or if she settles in and calms down, since I hate it when people post about a problem and never come back to say whether/how it was resolved.
 

mmfh

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I only have 2 aphonopelma sp.'s , so I may be wrong here but my A. sp new river rust rump is kept on dry substrate. Maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in but I'm wondering about the moist substrate. I see in your first post your substrate was dry so I guess you wet it down to allow her to burrow.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

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Good to hear that you won't discount the idea. At the size that your spider is at I have kept my Aphonopelma sp. in deli cups with a little water dish and some moister.
 

FireSpider

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So, an update, but not a promising one. About 2 weeks ago I tried Jose's suggestion, and the spider is now in a small round critter keeper which is basically like an extra-wide deli cup with a better lid. She doesn't run around as much as she used to, but I think that's just because she no longer has space to do so. I waited the better part of a week to let her settle in, then started offering her food, but she has refused to eat since around the time I posted this thread and continues to do so. Her abdomen has now shrunk alarmingly and she's starting to look dehydrated, despite having a bowl of fresh water she can get to with no effort at all. She freaks out and kicks hairs (or tries--I'm not sure she has any left) every time I open the cage to offer food or refill the water.

The cage is in a dim, quiet place. It's left alone except for necessary care.

I'm seriously at a loss for what else to do with this tarantula. I have 13 other Ts, some of them delicate tiny slings, and every single one is happy, plump, and healthy. I must not be *that* awful a tarantula keeper if the rest are doing so well. I'm really starting to think there is something wrong with this tarantula.
 

Austin S.

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Can you please post a picture of its enclosure? I as well, am at a loss on what you could do.
 

Nicolas C

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May I ask if your "confirmed female" is really a confirmed female?


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FireSpider

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Here's a pic of the enclosure:
Chaco1.jpg

I know the water is dirty, but she knocks bedding in it with all her running around, so even cleaning it every day it ends up like that again within a few hours. Her abdomen actually doesn't look shriveled on top today, though, so maybe she at least decided to drink overnight. The top-down angle makes the hide look lower than it really is. Trust me, the opening is plenty big enough for her to go under it if she wanted.

As for her sex, she was sold as a confirmed female by Anastasia from NetBug, someone I would have to think knows how to sex a tarantula. I agree that her behavior sounds like that of a mature male, but, while I'm not sure of my ability to visually sex juveniles, she definitely doesn't have hooks or flared palps. I wanted to get a close-up pic of her, but of course she wouldn't hold still.
 

Nicolas C

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Fair enough. It has to be something else than a MM question, you're right.


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cold blood

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The top-down angle makes the hide look lower than it really is. Trust me, the opening is plenty big enough for her to go under it if she wanted.
The biggest mistake people make with hides is too much room beneath it. Tight places are more attractive, and also encourage digging it out to their liking....you're just fine there...and hey, almost all of us can relate to t's messing with the water dish....at least it still has water in it...so often I go look and 20 are covered in substrate.

What I would like is a closer view of the t.
 
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