Damage From Molt [Cause&Effect]

Reese

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
9
Ok Just to begin Ill start of with the tarantula:
Rose Hair, Chilean Rose Hair, Chilean Rose [However you may call its nickname]
Binomial Nomenclature: Grammostola, Rosea
Age:8 yrs,3-4 months old now.
Gender: Male
Incident: Deformities from being stuck in the molt, had to put him in homemade icu and manually pull each and every part off.
Descriptive/Description: Typically its been almost a month now but a month ago he turned upside down and began to molt.
Before he molts during the months he was preparing the hairs all over his legs [excluding urticating] fell off as well as majority of the pink fur on his carapace with little minor patches of pink.
Maybe of old age or simply just a part of molting. Aside from that he got stuck. We waited and provided him humidity. He must of predicted the molt too late because on day two he pulled
himself off of his bottom carapace with all his legs locked in the old molted legs as well as pushing himself too much and damaging his right fang in the old molts chelicerae. His fang turned red.
I cannot tell whether it was blood or not but I assumed it was blood even though their blood is pretty much non-colored and is somewhat "white" or transparent.We took action a little late
due to family disagreeing that he was perfectly fine.... Aside from that we took his entire molt off successfully. Bad news was the fact his legs were twisted within the molt so he had
3 deformities. 2 minor and 2 major. The major one is on his left side first leg next to the pedipalp. That leg was twisted upside down at the femur and later on was considerably dead. Halfway of that
leg day or two later chipped off at a point where it became brittle or it looked strained of liquid like a rag wrapped and squeezed of water. so he has been walking around with half a ripped off leg.
I keep trying to look at it from inside to get a better look of how exactly that leg never bled. The major two was his right fang turned from bright red to a dark red. Seemingly from
my observation of it as well its not in the chelicerae of the armor correctly. Because hes able to push it around and pull it all the way beyond the chelicerae's armor. I cannot tell whether
its not working correctly too because when he uses his left fang which was undamaged and got its armor on that one coordinates correctly like when he bites into something. The other
one moves everywhere, uncoordinated movement. The right one seems like to me that due to the trauma and damage to it, it caused the armor to never form on the fang. Multiple
instances I have confirmed it was not solid and more rubbery, able to bend. One of the times I see this is when he cleans his legs as he would press the fang against his leg and it bends
from being pushed up against it.

If you may ask "What exactly is the problem then?" Well:

1. He has a front leg he cant barely move and it pushes against him when he tries to move forward. It is either pushed forward, pushing substrate and causing the substrate to keep him to continue
moving or he dozes it. Another positions it is in is pushed all the way to the side again pulling substrate with him or the leg is curl downwards under him. We plan on amputating his legs but
I disagree. From getting a split second to look on the inside of the leg that was ripped I saw a tip a little behind the ripped point :eek:oh::idea: He grew a new leg inside that leg which is either a dead leg or a
part of the molt that was unnoticed.

2. Because his right fang is damaged and uncoordinative in difference to the left it causes him with the difficulty of biting prey. I watched him trying to pull the prey under his chelicerae
and bites more than 6 times before he ends up biting it with the left fang and eating. A week after that he then couldn't bite those crickets so I had to pull the crickets with the tongs on
their behinds and put the prey up to his chelicerae. He luckily didn't get scared of the tongs and bit the cricket after several attempts. Another couple of weeks later now he cant bite
them at all. He constantly grabs the crickets and holds em under him biting so much. I can tell from seeing him opening and closing his chelicerae constantly and pushing them a little
down. Hes acting desperate now. Pouncing anything far from his feet and running towards it. When I hold pray items to him he feels the tongs and gets defensive hitting them with all
his front feet. He is very angry. So I cant hold the prey item up to him. When I let it go he has the same problem again, biting the cricket like crazy, getting tired and not moving for
minutes and the cricket escapes. I have even ripped the hind legs off of the crickets keeping them from jumping [I feel so terrible for doing so but his disability and his current conditions
seem severe where he cant be independent so I have to do whats necessary.] or even ripping all the 3 legs off so they only have 1 leg to move (only did this to one cricket). He did not
even eat that cricket nor did I see what happened. He probably bit it a lot and gave up. As for the cricket I woke up to find it dead from traumatizing its body by doing all I did to it.

So I ask... How can I feed him. He acts overly defensive and hits the straw or tongs with his front legs and pedipalps but does not act defensive with small prey and attempts to bite them.
How can I feed him. He is starting to try and crawl up the walls so I know hes hungry for sure. I can't think of a idea of what I can do to feed him if he cant bite the prey or hold it to his
mouth.

As for His leg im worried about my action I have in mind but if I can get him to calm down ill try and see if I can crack that twisted leg (hoping its not alive and not causing him to bleed)
and hopefully see his new tiny front leg that is growing (or which of such I am taking a large guess but it seems mere impossible if that leg cracked off and never bled. So it has to be a
new growing leg in the dead leg).

Ill try and see if I can post pictures (if needed).
 

Blue Jaye

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 16, 2013
Messages
342
The best thing you can do to feed him is make cricket soup . Kill the crickets smash them up and serve it in a flat lid so it doesn't soak into the sub . You can also try wax worms , they are very soft and you can squish it up and he should be able to eat it. If he's having trouble moving around in the dirt get him on paper towels . Humidity could help get the rest of the molt off . I recently had a mm molt and get stuck in a few places so I placed a few layers of moist paper towels over the sub in his enclosure and gave him a large shallow water dish . This seemed to help him get the rest of his molt off and what he didn't get off I helped with and he did have one pedipalp that shriveled and I removed it . He is doing very well . As for the fangs they usually turn red after a molt while they are still soft and usually harden and turn black within a few days to a week for larger Ts . If it has been a month and it is still red it sounds like it never hardened for some reason . Hopefully someone else will chime in with more info . You stated that it was a 8 years old is this a molt after its ultimate molt ? And pictures would be most helpful . Hope that helped a bit .
 

awiec

Arachnoprince
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
1,325
This is a bit of a mouthful of a post but I'll try to see if I can help.

1. How do you know if it's a male? Is it mature with hooks and emboli? If so then that's probably why the molt turned out disastrous, mature males don't do well when they try to molt again.

2. Chelicerae go from white to red to black after a spider molts, when it's white and red the fang is still hardening and if you messed with it you probably caused some muscle damage to that fang.

3. If the legs bothered the animal that much then it should pop them off itself, I only amputate if the legs are stuck in molts but it seems like all of his legs are pretty mangled so you might want to leave it to the spider to decide. I'm hesitant to tell you how to remove a leg as I really don't feel it's necessary at this stage as the spider is out of the molt.

4. It's possible that "he" is not hungry at this moment of time but if you want to feed him then you can make a "cricket smoothie" and then drop the liquid mush on the mouth. I don't want to sound heartless but if the spider was a mature male I don't see it worth saving as it will be highly un-likely it will survive much longer anyway. If "he" is not then if you can keep on feeding him, it's possible he may be able to make it to molt properly. The thing is though is that those mangled limbs may get stuck again while he's trying to molt so then you're still going to have trouble.

5. Pictures would be nice as well but I think I can picture the animal clearly in my head but perhaps someone with more knowledge than myself could help you. You have to think long and hard if the animal is worth all this effort, as there is a good chance it won't survive to the next molt (if it's immature).
 

Reese

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
9
To Both: Blue Jaye/awiec

That is a great idea thanks ill try it :) As for him yes. This is the molt after his final molt into man hood (lol) and at first the store we got him from were terrible people.... Did not
take care of the tarantulas well enough as well as stress em more over and barely knew how to sex the tarantulas. I got him when he was about to do the final molt. About 3-5
weeks later he molted after we got him but hooks appeared after his molt so I assumed he was a male. As for checking his molts under side well I never had the intention at that
time other than to throw it away... As well his appearance and how he looks matches a more male look. Very skinny and nimble long legs, hooks on the front legs, and not to mention
quite smaller to my other mature female. Also after he lost all his hair on top when he molted his entire carapace went from a bright pink color to straight black. I have no clue whether
this is due to old age. I also would agree that too as well it probably doesn't bother him all too much since he can pull himself all the way up the log and get around. But the leg I feel
like there is a piece of molt on it still and I would rather not go for amputating the leg just like that if part of his molt is still stuck and also we may have to amputate his leg anyways
because the femur of the leg is twisted entirely. So it seem somewhat possible the leg formed that way as well. Either way I will figure it out. Another thing I see is before this molt
his pedipalps were thick. After the molt they are alive and functionable but they are shriveled in size. Also Yes its been almost a month now. When he molted and got stuck the
right one was bright blood red while the left one was white/clear see through. After a couple of days the right one hardened and turned black but the right one only changed to a
darker red over the period of time to now. It is still red but the color has darkened greatly. It still seems though as if its rubbery But I haven't seen it in action to see if it bends still
since it has not touched any solid objects in a while because of the the rapid uncoordinated movement. As well yes it would make sense to be disastrous. When he did his final molt
he got out in less than 4 hours. This molt he did recently took 2 1/2 days until we decided to chip the molt off.

Well ok then I will proceed to try and see if I can do so. Ill try making a cricket soup/smoothie for him to see how it tops off. As for the leg that is twisted a full 180 degrees I will in
the next couple of days (until he eats) ill try to moisten up his environment and hour or two later attempt to see if I can lightly crunch the outer shell of the leg unless it really is not dead. Ill get a picture up when I can.
 

awiec

Arachnoprince
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
1,325
That makes a lot of sense then as males put a lot of energy into growing and thus this accelerated growth greatly shortens their life span. He is living on borrowed time right now so when he dies don't feel bad as you got him to adulthood, males aren't supposed to make it past their ultimate molt. On the bright side you will get some practice helping mangled tarantulas eat so in case you ever have a female/young male in the same situation, you'll know what to do.
 

Reese

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
9
Well yea he didn't live long..... He died today at 2:30 pm.... Felt foolish for not taking what my family members said seriously saying he curled all his legs up around him.... Thanks for trying to help though.
 

cold blood

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,259
There was nothing you could have possibly done....this was his normal course of life.
 

awiec

Arachnoprince
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
1,325
While I don't want to say your family is ignorant, the average lay person knows next to nothing about spiders, they are very different from a dog or cat so questions are best answered by specialty boards like these. Though don't feel bad, he was at the end of his life and was well taken care of prior to that.
 

Reese

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
9
Well yeah and the fact that tarantulas aren't a major concern in medical studies at all since tarantulas aren't your common household pet there isn't very much detail or knowledge either towards arachnids and tarantulas alike. Although im new to the hobby as well I look forward in the future of having taking more tarantulas in whether they are tarantulas people don't want to take care of anymore or ones I buy as well as gaining more knowledge for situations concerning health of them especially. Like I have said thank you for at least helping me with a temporary solve to that problem :)
 

awiec

Arachnoprince
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
1,325
Well yeah and the fact that tarantulas aren't a major concern in medical studies at all since tarantulas aren't your common household pet there isn't very much detail or knowledge either towards arachnids and tarantulas alike. Although im new to the hobby as well I look forward in the future of having taking more tarantulas in whether they are tarantulas people don't want to take care of anymore or ones I buy as well as gaining more knowledge for situations concerning health of them especially. Like I have said thank you for at least helping me with a temporary solve to that problem :)
I mean there are probably dozens of rosea on craigs list who need a home.
 
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