Brachypelma smithi leaking hemolymph from joints

Thistles · Sep 17, 2015

I picked up some spiders last Friday (1 week ago as of tomorrow) including a 3-4" B. smithi female. I picked the beasties up locally and they were given to me in their original enclosures rather than being packed in vials. Tonight I was feeding part of the collection and I noticed the B. smithi in question holding her legs in an unusual way. Upon closer examination, she appears to have scabs under several of her knees, some of which have been torn away. I don't know the cause of the original injury, nor do I know how she managed to reopen the wounds. I guess maybe she just hyperextended her legs and tore the backs open?

I tried to take some pictures, but I used an iPad and have very poor lighting. There isn't a lot of bleeding, but her first two sets of legs and her pedipalps each have at least one joint with a drop of clear fluid oozing from where the scabs were. I can see it clearly, but couldn't get clear pictures. I don't plan to glue them because they apparently healed up the first time without issue and I don't want to immobilize half of her legs. I'm just keeping her hydrated and leaving her alone and I'll check on her periodically. I mostly am making this thread because the whole thing is very odd, but if anyone has advice or knows how this might have happened, I'd love to hear it.

Beary Strange · Sep 18, 2015

Perhaps she suffered a fall or two, hurting her legs in the process and just walking around reopened the wounds. You could flour the wounds? It doesn't cause the same mobility issues.

8Legs8Eyes · Sep 18, 2015

Bizarre! Sorry you have to deal with that on one of your new tarantulas. I bet she'll be good after her next molt, but hope she gets better before then!

Thistles · Sep 18, 2015

Belle Fury said:
Perhaps she suffered a fall or two...

Oh, right, she was probably handled. I'm here thinking, "maybe she got stuck between the cork bark and the cage and her legs got pushed up too far?" The enclosure is only 4" tall, so any fall would have been due to handling.

Last night she was walking around with her first legs and palps in the air in a sort of crunched down threat pose. They were up, but not straight. This morning she's hugging the substrate, which I dampened instead of moving her to an ICU. She appears to be drinking from the dirt instead of her water dish. We'll see how it goes.

I have and have had a fair few tarantulas, but this is my first smithi along with the .5" sling I got with her. It's certainly a memorable introduction full of firsts.

cold blood · Sep 18, 2015

Thistles said:
Oh, right, she was probably handled. I'm here thinking, "maybe she got stuck between the cork bark and the cage and her legs got pushed up too far?"

I just don't see how that enclosure is 4" tall. Take a pic of the whole thing with a ruler. It appears to be practically an arboreal set-up.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just how it appears in the picture. The wood alone looks high enough to fall from.

So it WAS handled? Or was that sarcasm??:?

Blueandbluer · Sep 18, 2015

cold blood said:
I just don't see how that enclosure is 4" tall. Take a pic of the whole thing with a ruler. It appears to be practically an arboreal set-up.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just how it appears in the picture. The wood alone looks high enough to fall from.

So it WAS handled? Or was that sarcasm??:?

I am thinking the poster means handled by the previous owners. You'll note in the post they say the enclosures came from the original owners as well.

cold blood · Sep 18, 2015

Blueandbluer said:
I am thinking the poster means handled by the previous owners. You'll note in the post they say the enclosures came from the original owners as well.

Gotcha....could have easily been bounced because it was transported IN the enclosure as opposed to the safety of a vial or properly packed deli cup. Travelling with a t in an enclosure without preventative measures to ensure the t doesn't get shifted or bounced always carries a certain degree of risk.

Who knows, maybe there were selling because it had been dropped or incurred an injury.

Thistles · Sep 18, 2015

The enclosure is 4" high, 4" wide and 8" long. It looks arboreal? Hahahaha... The T itself is like 3.5" DLS or something. Yeah, I mentioned the way she was transported because I thought it might be a factor in the original injury which I never noticed. I always pack my Ts like I do for shipping when I'm moving. I don't know how she managed to reopen the scabs though.

I do not handle in general and have not handled her, but she has only been in my care for a week so it is possible she was injured in a fall during handling before. The guy I bought her from seemed to legitimately care about his animals and she was part of a group package. I really doubt that he would have sold her knowingly. He had a few that were mislabeled and he was extremely apologetic for that. Even if she dies I still got a great deal, but obviously I hope that does not happen for her sake!

Again, I mostly just posted this because I thought it was weird and people might find it interesting. All but one of the wounds has scabbed over again. The one that is still open just has a single drop of hemolymph attached. I think she'll be alright. She's not in a curl but she's still waving with one of her palps. I'll post another picture for you guys with the enclosure (I removed the cork since she's hobbling) in a few minutes.

Thistles · Sep 18, 2015

4" tall.

cold blood · Sep 18, 2015

That's why I said appears...photos from certain angles can be very misleading, as the one was..and I said "practically" arboreal...not straight up arboreal.:wink:

I wasn't accusing you of handling, dropping or anything, I was merely speculating based on the limited known facts shared.

I'd still add more sub and a small hide and a bit more ventilation.

Thistles · Sep 18, 2015

I'm not going to do anything right now although I had planned to rehouse her tomorrow. She's in no shape for a move. I'm pretty sure I can handle basic Brachy tank set up, but thanks for the input. My enclosures are all adequately ventilated and I usually have at least a few inches of substrate even for terrestrials. She had a hide, but I removed it since she has mobility issues right now and doesn't need another obstacle. You don't seem to have much confidence in my husbandry. I'd appreciate the advice if I hadn't made it clear that I wasn't the one who set her up this way...

The previous owner also gave me her last molt, but I hadn't looked at it until just now. Both of her Legs IV on the molt were tiny. She must have lost them and just finished regenerating them this molt. Poor kid has had a rough go.

horanjp · Sep 19, 2015

I once had an older female 'C. fasciatum' begin to leak the lymph from her joints, which was following an extremely long fast. I had her for 2 years and never molted once. When the leaking began, it started at the leg joints and spread to other 'creases' in the carapace, for wont of an anatomical term here. I eventually felt like I was in a very sad bugs bunny cartoon and I was patching holes in a sinking ship....eventually she looked like it was freezer time, and so it was. Mine didn't fare well in the days to come after she had her first signs, but hopefully you will have a more sunny outcome. My advice to you is to keep it dry in there....humidity only made things worse, and this much....I know. Praying for a speedy molt!

Thistles · Sep 19, 2015

Sorry to hear about your girl, horanjp. I'm hoping whatever is wrong with my little one is just injuries rather than... melting. This little smithi is still a juvenile and the leaking has stopped, fortunately. She is clearly uncomfortable and still holding her torn up legs in an awkward way, but I'm optimistic. Now that the bleeding has stopped I'm going to rehouse her and go back to dry substrate. I just wanted her to have access to moisture from the substrate as if she were in an ICU while she was losing fluid.

Cold blood, sorry if I was nasty. I know you were just trying to help. This is just the second thread of mine in which you have replied without reading/retaining what I had already said and it irritated me.

Biollantefan54 · Sep 19, 2015

Don't tarantulas sometimes 'leak' from their joints when in heavy premolt? I believe I witnessed it with my G. porteri and T. stirmi.

cold blood · Sep 19, 2015

Thistles said:
Cold blood, sorry if I was nasty. I know you were just trying to help. This is just the second thread of mine in which you have replied without reading/retaining what I had already said and it irritated me.

No issue here, its a pet peeve of mine (as well) that I, on rare occasions, even commit myself :wall:...to have done it twice in separate responses to you is almost laughable and something I will pay even closer attention to in the future.:smile:

Thistles · Sep 19, 2015

Well, it looks like she has bigger problems now. Put her in a proper ICU and moved her to a separate room.

Biollantefan54 · Sep 19, 2015

An ICU won't do anything a water dish can't do, except cause more stress. I would have just put it's chelicerae in a water dish IF I had to do anything.

Thistles · Sep 19, 2015

Biollantefan54 said:
An ICU won't do anything a water dish can't do, except cause more stress. I would have just put it's chelicerae in a water dish IF I had to do anything.

Yes, that was my reasoning earlier on when I elected to keep her in her original tank and just moisten the substrate. Given the new developments, I wanted to get her out of that old enclosure but not put her in a new one. I noticed the lump and the dirty chelicerae when I picked her up to transfer her to a new enclosure I had prepared. She's now in a deli that's just big enough for her to fully stretch her legs.

Edit: I realize I didn't explain the reason behind the change. The lump and discharge have me concerned. I don't know the cause of any of these conditions. I can see anything more clearly on white paper towel than I can on dark substrate, I don't know what nasties are lurking in her old, dirty substrate and I don't want to contaminate a new enclosure if she has something contagious. I know hating on Stan and the TKG and ICUs is in vogue now, but an ICU is was definitely the best choice of my three options.

Thistles · Sep 20, 2015

I have an unfortunate update. The B. smithi is still alive and all bleeding has stopped, but another of the new tarantulas is now leaking from the joints as well. The new spider is a B. boehmei female about the same size as the original gimp. I know this one wasn't injured to begin with because she molted the day I got her. The bleeding is much more extreme on this new girl and her opisthosoma is already shriveled and dehydrated-looking. I'm now no longer wondering how the first was injured but rather wondering if this is some sort of infection. Any ideas?

Psyrocke · Sep 20, 2015

I mean I have little experience but could it have something to do with what the previous owner were feeding them maybe? Could something have been in their food supply be causing it, hence why it took a bit longer for it show up in the B. boehmei if the smithi had molted recently prior to your having it?

If the smithi healed up with what you did, I would do the same with this new one, and maybe all the new ones, if you havent already removed them from their old enclosures that is.

Brachypelma smithi leaking hemolymph from joints

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