How many in a 76 gallon tank?

magneto

Arachnoknight
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How many in a 71 gallon tank?

(The title should say 71 gallon tank, not 76)

Hi.
I have a empty 71 gallon tank due to my Theraposa Stirmi not surviving the trip in the mail. So I was thinking of maybe getting some Heterometrus spinnifer to put in there instead. I'm told these can live together in small groups and was hoping that this tank was large enough to keep a few in. I have only had experience with tarantulas so I don't know how much space each scorpion needs in order to live together.

The tank is 31 x 23 x 23 inches and is currently holding 10 inches of substrate. I would think this is large enough to keep more than one? If yes, how many can live safely live together in there? Two? Three? If you need to see pictures I recently uploaded a few in the picture thread in the "Vivariums and Terrariums" sub forum.

Any and all answers is appreciated. :)
 
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Khagra

Arachnosquire
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I looked up your picture and you said it's holding 10 inches of substrate? Is the tank set into a hollowspace on the stand? if so that's pretty interesting.

You could probably safely keep 2... maybe 3 in there, as long as you ensured there were plenty of hides, and they each have room for their OWN burrow.
My only concern with a tank that big would be ensuring that all the scorpions were getting fed equally, I'd also suggest feeders that are less likely to burrow, you'd never see them again in a tank that big lol.
I used to keep 2 in a 40 gallon tank, and even though they were living 'communally' they HATED it when they bumped into eachother on the rare chance.
And from personal experience, I can say that with heterometrus species, you're probably not going to see them at all if the tank is set in like i asked about above.
Mine come out of their burrows maybe once every two weeks, and usually only at unholy hours of the morning for maybe an hour. :p
 

magneto

Arachnoknight
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I looked up your picture and you said it's holding 10 inches of substrate? Is the tank set into a hollowspace on the stand? if so that's pretty interesting.

You could probably safely keep 2... maybe 3 in there, as long as you ensured there were plenty of hides, and they each have room for their OWN burrow.
My only concern with a tank that big would be ensuring that all the scorpions were getting fed equally, I'd also suggest feeders that are less likely to burrow, you'd never see them again in a tank that big lol.
I used to keep 2 in a 40 gallon tank, and even though they were living 'communally' they HATED it when they bumped into eachother on the rare chance.
And from personal experience, I can say that with heterometrus species, you're probably not going to see them at all if the tank is set in like i asked about above.
Mine come out of their burrows maybe once every two weeks, and usually only at unholy hours of the morning for maybe an hour. :p
Thanks for answering. It is built into the stand yes. I figured that since it was far from certain that the Stirmi that was intended for this enclosure would make a burrow up against the glass where I could see it, I would rather build it like this cause 10 inches of visible substrate kind of ruins the look of the thing in my opinion.

And thanks for the tip about them not being very visible. As this is going to be my main display piece, I want something that sits on the surface once in a while.

Any sugestions on anything else that would do well in this tank? Scorpions, spiders, other inverts, I'm open for suggestions. :)
 

Khagra

Arachnosquire
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Thanks for answering. It is built into the stand yes. I figured that since it was far from certain that the Stirmi that was intended for this enclosure would make a burrow up against the glass where I could see it, I would rather build it like this cause 10 inches of visible substrate kind of ruins the look of the thing in my opinion.

And thanks for the tip about them not being very visible. As this is going to be my main display piece, I want something that sits on the surface once in a while.

Any sugestions on anything else that would do well in this tank? Scorpions, spiders, other inverts, I'm open for suggestions. :)
I recently started keeping Hadrurus arizonensis.
Shouldn't be kept kept communally, but there are things I like about them quite a bit.
- Extremely easy care
- I see mine at the surface frequently even though she has a burrow, very active.
- You can keep blue death feigning beetles in the terrarium as a clean up crew and they won't be bothered by scorpion and also entertaining to watch.


If you are interested in this, you can buy both H arizonensis and Blue death feigning beetles here: http://shop.bugsincyberspace.com/

Naturally this is all just personal opinion of what I'd stick in there, but I'm sure there's lots of other good options. :)
 

Galapoheros

ArachnoGod
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I'd consider H. swammerdami, they have gotten along very well over here. I'm trying to raise more of them and currently keep 4 adults per plastic tub that is only about 6 liters(?) with no problems. They were captive born here and have always lived together. They all stay under cut hardiboard that is about 8"x10" So you should be able to keep several there pretty safely.
 

magneto

Arachnoknight
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I'd consider H. swammerdami, they have gotten along very well over here. I'm trying to raise more of them and currently keep 4 adults per plastic tub that is only about 6 liters(?) with no problems. They were captive born here and have always lived together. They all stay under cut hardiboard that is about 8"x10" So you should be able to keep several there pretty safely.
Thanks, I'll look into those. How are they when it comes to visibility? Do they sit out on the surface a lot or are they mostly hidden?

---------- Post added 09-23-2015 at 09:47 AM ----------

I can only find Heterometrus swammerdami as medium sized unsexed specimens and with a tank this size I think adults would be best.

The ones I found readily available are these?
Pandinus cavimanus africanus
Euscorpius germanus
Euscorpius italicus

Would any of those be a good choice for a communal in this tank? A big thing for me is visibility. They don't need to be constantly sitting on the surface but I would like them to sit out a bit so I don't just have 3-4 pet holes.
 
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magneto

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I'm getting more and more partial for the Pandinus Cavimanus Africanus. If I went for that, would still three be okay? I was thinking it would be cool to have four, two males and two females, but the tank probably isn't big enough. What about one male and two females? Or would just a pair of one of each be best? And what about substrate The substrate currently in the tank was meant for the T. Stirmi so it is fairly moist. Not wet, but most. Will that do with this species? I really hope so as it will take weeks to dry all of it.

Sorry about the never ending questions here guys. I just want to soak up all info I can get before doing anything.
 

Khagra

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I'm getting more and more partial for the Pandinus Cavimanus Africanus. If I went for that, would still three be okay? I was thinking it would be cool to have four, two males and two females, but the tank probably isn't big enough. What about one male and two females? Or would just a pair of one of each be best? And what about substrate The substrate currently in the tank was meant for the T. Stirmi so it is fairly moist. Not wet, but most. Will that do with this species? I really hope so as it will take weeks to dry all of it.

Sorry about the never ending questions here guys. I just want to soak up all info I can get before doing anything.
I kept P. cavimanus for a while. Your enclosure is not big enough for four, in fact I think even three might be pushing it as P. cavimanus has been, in my experience, more aggressive than P. imperator despite being able to be kept communally. If both females fell gravid, I fear you'd only end up with one very angry mom in the end. On the bright side, I do recall seeing my P. cavimanus topside much more frequently than any of my asian forest scorpions, so there's that.

Regarding substrate, the same care should be taken as Heterometrus species, and this has a pretty good guide detailing all their needs, and should answer any questions you might have.
http://www.allscorpionarchives.com/t7-asa-forest-scorpions-caresheet
 

magneto

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I kept P. cavimanus for a while. Your enclosure is not big enough for four, in fact I think even three might be pushing it as P. cavimanus has been, in my experience, more aggressive than P. imperator despite being able to be kept communally. If both females fell gravid, I fear you'd only end up with one very angry mom in the end. On the bright side, I do recall seeing my P. cavimanus topside much more frequently than any of my asian forest scorpions, so there's that.

Regarding substrate, the same care should be taken as Heterometrus species, and this has a pretty good guide detailing all their needs, and should answer any questions you might have.
http://www.allscorpionarchives.com/t7-asa-forest-scorpions-caresheet
Thank you very much for a lot of helpful info. I think I'll go for a pair of P. cavimanus, one male, one female. Hopefully after a while I'll see some kids too :)

---------- Post added 09-23-2015 at 08:12 PM ----------

Regarding substrate, the same care should be taken as Heterometrus species, and this has a pretty good guide detailing all their needs, and should answer any questions you might have.
http://www.allscorpionarchives.com/t7-asa-forest-scorpions-caresheet
I skimmed through the guide and stopped at the info about breeding. As I plan to have a breeding pair in there, the female will quite possibly be gravid pretty soon. The guide states that I should then remove the male from the enclosure. How important is that? If it is it's a must it kind of defeats the point of a communal set up. I will certainly do it if it is absolutly neccesary, but then I need to build/get another enclosure for the male.
 
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Khagra

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Thank you very much for a lot of helpful info. I think I'll go for a pair of P. cavimanus, one male, one female. Hopefully after a while I'll see some kids too :)

---------- Post added 09-23-2015 at 08:12 PM ----------



I skimmed through the guide and stopped at the info about breeding. As I plan to have a breeding pair in there, the female will quite possibly be gravid pretty soon. The guide states that I should then remove the male from the enclosure. How important is that? If it is it's a must it kind of defeats the point of a communal set up. I will certainly do it if it is absolutly neccesary, but then I need to build/get another enclosure for the male.

I've only ever had H. petersii slings. I removed the other scorpion in the enclosure for the sake of safety. I was probably overly paranoid, because the mother never left her burrow the entire time after the brood was born.. The gestation period of P. cavimanus varies, but is quite long. (7 to 9 months.. or possibly waits until 'conditions are right'... or so I've read) You'd have plenty of time to prepare something else for male. Also some other things to take into consideration, the slings dismount at about three to five weeks, what are you planning to do with them all then? :p

edit: Just to clarify, it's probably safe to keep a male with gravid female for quite a while. My asian forest scorpions showed no aggression until maybe a week before she had her brood. It could be different with P. cavimanus, I can only offer advice based on the knowledge of my H. petersii. haha
 

magneto

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edit: Just to clarify, it's probably safe to keep a male with gravid female for quite a while. My asian forest scorpions showed no aggression until maybe a week before she had her brood. It could be different with P. cavimanus, I can only offer advice based on the knowledge of my H. petersii. haha
Thank you again for great info.

Also some other things to take into consideration, the slings dismount at about three to five weeks, what are you planning to do with them all then? :p
Make a stew? :}

Kidding kidding...I really just want to try a breeding atempt as I have never tried it with any of my animals before. I will probably sell most of them and maybe keep a couple.
 

Galapoheros

ArachnoGod
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Thanks, I'll look into those. How are they when it comes to visibility? Do they sit out on the surface a lot or are they mostly hidden?

---------- Post added 09-23-2015 at 09:47 AM ----------

I can only find Heterometrus swammerdami as medium sized unsexed specimens and with a tank this size I think adults would be best.

The ones I found readily available are these?
Pandinus cavimanus africanus
Euscorpius germanus
Euscorpius italicus

Would any of those be a good choice for a communal in this tank? A big thing for me is visibility. They don't need to be constantly sitting on the surface but I would like them to sit out a bit so I don't just have 3-4 pet holes.
It’s just opinion but for me, I’ve learned that immature specimens fit best. When they aren’t adults, you get to watch them grow, you will have them longer if they stay healthy. When you buy adults, you don’t know how old they are, they could die of old age in a few weeks. So for me, medium sized to sub-adults are a plus. ime, swammerdami aren’t as skittish as Pandinus species. When I walk in the bug room and the emps are out, they run under anything as fast as they can. The swammerdamis feel the vibrations but if they are out, they tend to stay out, as if waiting to see what’s going on. But I really like Pandinus too.
 

magneto

Arachnoknight
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It’s just opinion but for me, I’ve learned that immature specimens fit best. When they aren’t adults, you get to watch them grow, you will have them longer if they stay healthy. When you buy adults, you don’t know how old they are, they could die of old age in a few weeks. So for me, medium sized to sub-adults are a plus. ime, swammerdami aren’t as skittish as Pandinus species. When I walk in the bug room and the emps are out, they run under anything as fast as they can. The swammerdamis feel the vibrations but if they are out, they tend to stay out, as if waiting to see what’s going on. But I really like Pandinus too.
I agree that juveniles to sub adults are the best. And normally I would build/buy an enclosure specifically for the animal I bought. But in this instance it was the other way around. I had a large enclusure and was shopping for something to put in it so I felt I needed to get larger specimens in order for them not to disappear completely in there.
 
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Galapoheros

ArachnoGod
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There are big, medium and small adults so I’ve seen several sub-adults that are bigger than adults. Are you going to order them or are you going to pet stores to pick them out? Sub-adults can be pretty big, people in fact often make the mistake of thinking their Pandinus or Heterometrus scorpion is adult when it’s not.
 

magneto

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There are big, medium and small adults so I’ve seen several sub-adults that are bigger than adults. Are you going to order them or are you going to pet stores to pick them out? Sub-adults can be pretty big, people in fact often make the mistake of thinking their Pandinus or Heterometrus scorpion is adult when it’s not.
I'm ordering them from a weĺl known online invertsite in the UK. You choose from several categories. Small, medium, large, unsexed adult, adult male, adult female. I chose the last two so I have to trust them to pick out the right ones. But I'll send them a request to pick out larger specimens if they have them.
 

Galapoheros

ArachnoGod
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What do you hope for, do you want to breed a species or have a display for a year or two and move to something else? Or is none of that a consideration, just casual ..whatever, see where it goes?
 

magneto

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What do you hope for, do you want to breed a species or have a display for a year or two and move to something else? Or is none of that a consideration, just casual ..whatever, see where it goes?
As I have never tried Scorpions before and as I said only have this large tank I just thought I'd try them and see how it goes. If they breed That would be great but that's not the main atraction to me. And I have to admit to leaning towards the (perhaps imature) bigger is better view with my inverts.
 

Galapoheros

ArachnoGod
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I see. I just hate to see people buy adult inverts and they die soon, it would be discouraging, many people just don’t consider that it’s not unlikely. Some people even say this when they buy an adult invert, “It died and it’s only 2 weeks old, I don’t understand what I did wrong.” They want to think it was born when the bought it!, it’s weird!
 

magneto

Arachnoknight
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I see. I just hate to see people buy adult inverts and they die soon, it would be discouraging, many people just don’t consider that it’s not unlikely. Some people even say this when they buy an adult invert, “It died and it’s only 2 weeks old, I don’t understand what I did wrong.” They want to think it was born when the bought it!, it’s weird!
No worries. I'm fully aware of the fact that they won't live as long. Frankly I'm amazed that some People don't understand this. But on the other hand, this is a store that breeds their own stock so chances are that they haven't been adults for all that long. But in any case I'm aware of the risks.
 
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