Scary Red Trapdoor Spider experience.

CoinJar · Oct 1, 2015

So I recently rehoused my Red Trapdoor Spider after it was recommended that she begin her own burrow (since the one I premade last time she just sat in and never made a door). After three days, she was still just sitting on the new substrate on a small mat of webbing. So, I opened her enclosure to attempt to feed her, and I was shocked to find her totally motionless and seemingly stiff (the superworm just crawled over her without her moving). I nudged her with a pair of tongs, still no movement. At this point, I was sure she had either died or was in the process of dying, so I made an ICU (something I've learned from Tarantula care) and reached in to gently pick her up with the tongs, at which point she aggressively struck at the tongs several times and ran at me (falling from her enclosure onto the carpet). It took quite a bit of effort and coaxing to get her back into her enclosure, with her putting up one heck of a fight the whole time. Was she "sleeping"?

I made a kind of starter burrow in one corner of her new enclosure to hopefully get her started, but to top off her evil spirit she promptly went to the opposite corner and finally (after three days) began digging her own.

Beary Strange · Oct 1, 2015

1. Tongs are not for "picking up" spiders.
2. They don't react to everything we do. Sometimes something has to really push them to get a reaction.
3. If you tried picking her up with tongs, of course she's going to defend herself.
4. She's not evil, she's defensive and rightly so.

The Snark · Oct 1, 2015

Belle Fury said:
1. Tongs are not for "picking up" spiders.
2. They don't react to everything we do. Sometimes something has to really push them to get a reaction.
3. If you tried picking her up with tongs, of course she's going to defend herself.
4. She's not evil, she's defensive and rightly so.

Belle F, I think it only right and fair that you explain a little about trapdoor spiders. Outside of the borrow their 'fish out of water' freezing in place, along with some of their interesting traits and habits. :cute:

MarkmD · Oct 1, 2015

Well I'm glad you didn't get tagged lol, I've had a few Trapdoor's and they usually don't like being outside except food or occasionally water, they are fast and react different from T's or most other spiders.

Chris LXXIX · Oct 1, 2015

I don't get one thing. To re-house trapdoors too much. Those are probably the only that (except for very tiny slings, of course) can be put as semi juveniles/juveniles in somewhat permanent enclosures. Basically a 32 oz enclosure full of substrate (moist... a bit moist... this factor depends by the trapdoor in question) and you're done with those folks.
Had an acquaintance who loved those. I never had one, because, while some of those are cool "per se", i found them very annoying

BobGrill · Oct 1, 2015

Wow... you seriously tried picking up your spider with a pair of tongs?

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Beary Strange · Oct 1, 2015

The Snark said:
Belle F, I think it only right and fair that you explain a little about trapdoor spiders. Outside of the borrow their 'fish out of water' freezing in place, along with some of their interesting traits and habits. :cute:

I saw red at the picking up a spider with tongs and choosing to blame the spider for it's predictable actions thereafter, and that's what I chose to focus on. There are people here who know loads more about trapdoors than I do that can give more advice on that account.

CoinJar · Oct 1, 2015

I never use my tongs to pick up my tarantulas, but when it comes to my trapdoor I am not putting any part of my body near her. I have never read a report from someone firsthand being bitten, but I have been warned that a bite may easily land someone in the ER. So therefor, I always use extreme caution when "handling" my trapdoor. Keep in mind that these are 12" soft rubber tipped tongs, so I had no concern that lifting her with them could harm her in any way.

I understand that these are not animals to be handled, the only time her enclosure is ever opened is for feeding or cleaning up debris from feeding. As I explained, I was rehousing her into a more suitable enclosure.

Biollantefan54 · Oct 1, 2015

A much safer way to pick something up is to use a delicup with a lid instead of tongs.

BobGrill · Oct 2, 2015

CoinJar said:
I never use my tongs to pick up my tarantulas, but when it comes to my trapdoor I am not putting any part of my body near her. I have never read a report from someone firsthand being bitten, but I have been warned that a bite may easily land someone in the ER. So therefor, I always use extreme caution when "handling" my trapdoor. Keep in mind that these are 12" soft rubber tipped tongs, so I had no concern that lifting her with them could harm her in any way.

I understand that these are not animals to be handled, the only time her enclosure is ever opened is for feeding or cleaning up debris from feeding. As I explained, I was rehousing her into a more suitable enclosure.

Okay so use a catch cup and a paintbrush or the tongs to guide it in... how do you think other people who keep these deal with them? They're still delicate animals and your tongs could still damage it, regardless of how soft they are.

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Ambly · Oct 5, 2015

I have to agree, there is a higher risk of injury with tongs than other methods - even if used carefully.

We mostly learned the way you are now: try shit, post, get flamed, learn from it. We are quick to flame others while we justify digging it out of it's hole, keeping it in a plastic tub and in possibly the worst and most unnatural substrate for trapdoors: peatmoss. Keeping pets is our pleasure>their well-being, so don't get too insulted.

From my experience (that is the experience of someone who has kept a few trappies, not an expert):
1. rehoming a trapdoor, especially an older one, is asking for a few weeks to months of surface-spider
2. substrate is everything and your spider should dig fairly readily - research genera/species, their habitat and climate, and their biology. Some may thrive on wet, clay slopes and wither in flat peatmoss.
3. trapdoors are second class here, thrown in peatmoss and expected to do their thing. Best advice is found in literature and asking specific people who have a wealth of experience.

Thanks for posting an honest account of what happened and how it was handled.

BobGrill · Oct 5, 2015

Defending stupid behavior is just well stupid. I didn't see any of the responses as flaming, but I do think that someone who does something like this and then posts about it on a public forum should expect these types of responses.

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Ambly · Oct 6, 2015

I consider defending very unconstructive criticism to be defending stupid behavior.

I've spent a life time adoring misunderstood and abused creatures (snakes and spiders for example), and from my experience being harsh without constructive criticism isn't helpful for anything...

Being corrective and critical can be good, but "why the hell would you use tongs" or "thats a salamander, not a lizard - its obvious" is more likely to illicit a poor response than a positive one. Things like "try using a delicup, it is safer for your spider" or "that's a salamander, not a lizard, here are the differences" is much more likely to illicit a positive response for the person receiving criticism and for the spider. It's like how in schools signs now say "please walk" versus "don't run." Positive behavioral support. Science.

I'd think if we cared enough about a spider to say "don't use tongs," then we should do it right and provide "how to do it right" along side of "you're doing it wrong"

---------- Post added 10-06-2015 at 03:14 PM ----------

it can also be helpful to ask yourself "do I want to help this guy and his spider, or do I simply want to correct him." I'm not trying to dig at anyone, I have to ask myself this all the time... sometimes it is hard not to want to be corrective and easy to forget the other half.

The Snark · Oct 6, 2015

Ambly said:
I consider defending very unconstructive criticism to be defending stupid behavior.

I've spent a life time adoring misunderstood and abused creatures (snakes and spiders for example), and from my experience being harsh without constructive criticism isn't helpful for anything...

Being corrective and critical can be good, but "why the hell would you use tongs" or "thats a salamander, not a lizard - its obvious" is more likely to illicit a poor response than a positive one. Things like "try using a delicup, it is safer for your spider" or "that's a salamander, not a lizard, here are the differences" is much more likely to illicit a positive response for the person receiving criticism and for the spider. It's like how in schools signs now say "please walk" versus "don't run." Positive behavioral support. Science.

I'd think if we cared enough about a spider to say "don't use tongs," then we should do it right and provide "how to do it right" along side of "you're doing it wrong"

---------- Post added 10-06-2015 at 03:14 PM ----------

it can also be helpful to ask yourself "do I want to help this guy and his spider, or do I simply want to correct him." I'm not trying to dig at anyone, I have to ask myself this all the time... sometimes it is hard not to want to be corrective and easy to forget the other half.

That sums it up pretty good.
The general idea is to find that thin line between harshly critical and condescending. Dr. Theodore Stephanides, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Stephanides, a polymath and heralded as one of the best instructors in history, used a mixture of mildly belittling himself with impartial third person observations. He imparted information like he was reminding himself and included the student in on it. Extraordinarily effective.

Scary Red Trapdoor Spider experience.

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