Hybrid?

lalberts9310 · Oct 12, 2015

So as some of you may know, I obtained a adult female November last year from my husband who bought it at a local pet store, this girl was labelled as a Psalmopoeus irminia. after owning her for a few weeks I started to have some doubts on her identification. I had a lot of debate whether she was a P. Cambridgei, or a P. irminia in desperate need of a molt. Fast forward a year later she finally molted. When I received her she looked exactly like she does now freshly molted, which indicates she was freshly molted the day I got her meaning she was not a P. Irminia deep into her molt cycle. as the months went by she started to look more and more like a P. cambridgei, until today.

These pictures were all taken with the same camera, under the same lighting conditions.

Here she is in pre-molt:

http://s621.photobucket.com/user/lalberts9310/media/IMG_0801_zpsdmt8bew8.jpg.html?sort=3&o=38

http://s621.photobucket.com/user/lalberts9310/media/IMG_0790_zpsjekufjti.jpg.html?sort=3&o=39

Here she is post-molt:

http://s621.photobucket.com/user/lalberts9310/media/IMG_2227_zpsnuskuv6a.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

http://s621.photobucket.com/user/lalberts9310/media/IMG_2224_zps1uqsbhdo.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

http://s621.photobucket.com/user/lalberts9310/media/IMG_2223_zps0distnhr.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

http://s621.photobucket.com/user/lalberts9310/media/IMG_2222_zpsjtpflscj.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

for comparison:

freshly molted 4" P. cambridgei
http://s621.photobucket.com/user/lalberts9310/media/IMG_2178_zpslfxtxlko.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9

P. Irminia 5" female a few weeks after molt:
http://s621.photobucket.com/user/la...nia female14_zps2zqp3grs.jpg.html?sort=3&o=76

What do you guys think? Unfortunately I can't provide a picture of the spermathecae, as my camera is good, but not THAT good. Also, this thread is not for a debate on whether I should own a hybrid or not, so please stick to the original topic.

fuzzyavics72 · Oct 12, 2015

She's definitely a cambridgei/irminia hybrid. She's way more irminia than cambridgei. Very nice looking spider though!

sdsnybny · Oct 12, 2015

Doesn't look like a hybrid to me.
Michael Jacobi's pic thread has a good pic as well as Google image search of the hybrids.
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?254691-The-new-Michael-Jacobi-image-thread&

cold blood · Oct 12, 2015

Looking at the post-molt pics, it looks like irminia to me.

lalberts9310 · Oct 12, 2015

This is extremely confusing....

Storm76 · Oct 13, 2015

Post-molt looks like a very pretty P. irminia to me, too. Not a hybrid in my opinion. I'd steal her

(kidding)

lalberts9310 · Oct 13, 2015

Storm76 said:
Post-molt looks like a very pretty P. irminia to me, too. Not a hybrid in my opinion. I'd steal her (kidding)

No, you may never have her :biggrin:

Storm76 · Oct 13, 2015

lalberts9310 said:
No, you may never have her :biggrin:

But...but...:cry:

lalberts9310 · Oct 13, 2015

Another picture. now I want you guys to look closely, as most of you seem to think this is a P. Irminia... I'm still doubting and still scratching my head. Here she is next to my 5" female P. Irminia. Note the difference in colouration, especially on the abdomen. Also note the difference between the patterns on the abdomen. My P. Irminia is black, this girl is a dark grey. She's also huge, measuring 6" fully stretched out, and I know P. irminia rarely gets over the 5.5" mark. The noticeable difference in colouration is what throws me for a loop and makes her ID questionable.

http://s621.photobucket.com/user/lalberts9310/media/IMG_2238_zpsvq6cndu6.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

and here are links to other hybrid specimens that looks exactly like mine (some of these pics were taken in better lighting than mine)...

http://www.urizoo.com/Bilder/Psalmopoeus_cmbridgei_irminia_01.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/coolaidekid/master5-21435.jpg

http://s132.photobucket.com/user/mitchnast/media/011-3.jpg.html

If you think this is P. irminia please state on why you think so, I'm still scratching my head about it....:?:?

---------- Post added 10-13-2015 at 08:22 PM ----------

Storm76 said:
But...but...:cry:

Nope..... hehehe;P

Angel Minkov · Oct 13, 2015

Picture IDing can never be accurate. I'd try finding a taxonomist who is willing to examine an exuviae and give you a definitive answer

Thistles · Oct 13, 2015

Just put her on the "do not breed - pet only" shelf and enjoy the pretty spider. She does look hybrid to me and better safe than sorry.

Storm76 · Oct 13, 2015

lalberts9310 said:
Another picture. now I want you guys to look closely, as most of you seem to think this is a P. Irminia... I'm still doubting and still scratching my head. Here she is next to my 5" female P. Irminia. Note the difference in colouration, especially on the abdomen. Also note the difference between the patterns on the abdomen. My P. Irminia is black, this girl is a dark grey. She's also huge, measuring 6" fully stretched out, and I know P. irminia rarely gets over the 5.5" mark. The noticeable difference in colouration is what throws me for a loop and makes her ID questionable.

http://s621.photobucket.com/user/lalberts9310/media/IMG_2238_zpsvq6cndu6.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

and here are links to other hybrid specimens that looks exactly like mine (some of these pics were taken in better lighting than mine)...

http://www.urizoo.com/Bilder/Psalmopoeus_cmbridgei_irminia_01.jpg

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/coolaidekid/master5-21435.jpg

http://s132.photobucket.com/user/mitchnast/media/011-3.jpg.html

If you think this is P. irminia please state on why you think so, I'm still scratching my head about it....:?:?

---------- Post added 10-13-2015 at 08:22 PM ----------

Nope..... hehehe;P

Weeeelll....now I see what you mean when you put them in comparison. Although I'm unsure, I'd not breed her under those circumstances. Freshly molted looking like that in comparison to your other female? Both my girls look like the one on the left and that big girl on the right does remind me of hybrids somewhat...I'd play it safe, keep but no breed.

PS: Now you can keep her!

lalberts9310 · Oct 13, 2015

Angel Minkov said:
Picture IDing can never be accurate. I'd try finding a taxonomist who is willing to examine an exuviae and give you a definitive answer

If ever I could find one in SA. I managed to get a intact exo, but my camera is not good enough to take pictures of the spermathecae *sobs*

---------- Post added 10-13-2015 at 08:37 PM ----------

Thistles said:
Just put her on the "do not breed - pet only" shelf and enjoy the pretty spider. She does look hybrid to me and better safe than sorry.

Yes, she's a "pet" only, she'll never be bred or sold off.

---------- Post added 10-13-2015 at 08:40 PM ----------

Storm76 said:
Weeeelll....now I see what you mean when you put them in comparison. Although I'm unsure, I'd not breed her under those circumstances. Freshly molted looking like that in comparison to your other female? Both my girls look like the one on the left and that big girl on the right does remind me of hybrids somewhat...I'd play it safe, keep but no breed.

PS: Now you can keep her!

She looks like a P. Irminia with a P. cambridgei butt... and thanks Jan for not wanting to spidernap my girl :biggrin:

Philth · Oct 13, 2015

If you use the IMG tag instead, your photos will be visible rather then links to another page like this, just makes things easier to view

Later, Tom

cold blood · Oct 13, 2015

Yeah Lolla, you put those pics side by side and I'm now in agreement with fuzzyavics, it sure does appear to be a hybrid....I can say the one on the left is definitely an irminia...lol.

lalberts9310 · Oct 14, 2015

Thanks guys for all the input, I really appreciate it.

I'm now more confident in her ID, and my mind has been put to rest somewhat. If I can find someone willing to examine her molt I'll send it to them. But I don't have any doubts now... she's still 'n pretty girl, even if she's a hybrid, I love her anyway

klawfran3 · Oct 14, 2015

Look at the tibia on the back legs. Irminia seems to have orange streaks on them while cambridgei doesn't. Your questionable girl doesn't have the streaks that the irminias seem to have. Your girl looks very irminia but her larger size, the lack of the streaks, and her opisthosoma looks a bit light and has a less defined pattern. I'm going with hybrid like everyone else.

Beary Strange · Oct 14, 2015

With them side by side, it's a lot easier to see what you're talking about. She's larger and there are noticeable coloration differences now, she has a grayness to her that is clearly not just the photo washing her out. You can clearly see the lack of orange stripes on her tibia. I'd agree with others to keep her as pet only, no breeding. It's a shame she'll never get the chance to breed because someone was careless. :c

lalberts9310 · Oct 14, 2015

klawfran3 said:
Look at the tibia on the back legs. Irminia seems to have orange streaks on them while cambridgei doesn't. Your questionable girl doesn't have the streaks that the irminias seem to have. Your girl looks very irminia but her larger size, the lack of the streaks, and her opisthosoma looks a bit light and has a less defined pattern. I'm going with hybrid like everyone else.

she does have orange streaks on all her legs, guess it's just not that visible in the photos but they are there.

---------- Post added 10-14-2015 at 04:17 PM ----------

Belle Fury said:
With them side by side, it's a lot easier to see what you're talking about. She's larger and there are noticeable coloration differences now, she has a grayness to her that is clearly not just the photo washing her out. You can clearly see the lack of orange stripes on her tibia. I'd agree with others to keep her as pet only, no breeding. It's a shame she'll never get the chance to breed because someone was careless. :c

Yeah, I don't approve hybridisation. I have no idea who owned her before me, the lps couldn't tell us either. If we knew she was hybrid we probably wouldn't have bought her, but she was a birthday gift from my husband and we had no idea idea it was a hybrid until I started to grow suspicious a few weeks after owning her. But she's mine now, and she's special (hybrid or not), and she'll stay with me for life. Even if something happened that forced me to sell off my collection, she'll be the only one that stays. She does have the orange stripes on the tibia on all of her legs though, not that visible in the pictures I provided but they are there.

Beary Strange · Oct 14, 2015

lalberts9310 said:
Yeah, I don't approve hybridisation. I have no idea who owned her before me, the lps couldn't tell us either. If we knew she was hybrid we probably wouldn't have bought her, but she was a birthday gift from my husband and we had no idea idea it was a hybrid until I started to grow suspicious a few weeks after owning her. But she's mine now, and she's special (hybrid or not), and she'll stay with me for life. Even if something happened that forced me to sell off my collection, she'll be the only one that stays. She does have the orange stripes on the tibia on all of her legs though, not that visible in the pictures I provided but they are there.

I think it's a good thing you were the one that bought her. You're a responsible hobbyist and know better than to breed her; someone else might not have recognized or cared that anything was off and bred her, creating even further hybridized specimens.

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