Most "efficient" feeder insect???

CIRE · Oct 14, 2004

I was just thinking about what type of feeder insect would leave the smallest leftover (bolus)...I noticed that softer insects (such as silkworms and waxworms) don't have as much of an exoskeleton as say a superworm...would that translate into fewer leftovers???

I know it might also depend on how hungry a T is, but it would be interesting to see if there is a link between amount/extent of exoskeleton and amount and size of food bolus...and consequently, what might be termed the "efficiency" of a feeder insect...

Out of curiosity though, are there times when T's don't leave any remains?

Brian S · Oct 14, 2004

I have noticed that a grasshopper definitely leaves a bigger bolus than a cricket.

WayneT · Oct 14, 2004

cire007 said:
I was just thinking about what type of feeder insect would leave the smallest leftover (bolus)...I noticed that softer insects (such as silkworms and waxworms) don't have as much of an exoskeleton as say a superworm...would that translate into fewer leftovers???

Out of curiosity though, are there times when T's don't leave any remains?

To answer your last question, I've fed my T. blondi's earthworms, nightcrawlers, and there is absolutely nothing leftover. Same holds true of the silkworms I've fed on occasion.

JohnxII · Oct 14, 2004

Freshly molted soft white mealworm pupae hands down! However, a freshly molted superworm on the dinner plate also results in very few leftovers.

Code Monkey · Oct 14, 2004

"Leftovers" are largely determined by the amount of chitin, and particularly sclerotized (hardened or otherwise toughened) chitn, in the exoskeleton of what you feed them. The digestive enzymes of spiders are incapable of breaking down this part of the exoskeleton. This is why the soft bodied prey mentioned throughout this thread leaves relatively little bolus and something like a thick skinned hisser leaves quite the mess.

TroyMcClureOG82 · Oct 15, 2004

What about gut size? The bigger the gut the bigger the potential for gut loading leading to higher "efficiency". Nothing to do with left overs though

Code Monkey · Oct 15, 2004

TroyMcClureOG82 said:
What about gut size? The bigger the gut the bigger the potential for gut loading leading to higher "efficiency". Nothing to do with left overs though

Gutloading in my opinion is about as useful for feeding inverts as singing to them. It's a practice carried over from the herp hobby where it is necessary because the feeder insects routinely fed do not contain sufficient minerals to prevent metabolic bone disease. There is no basis to assume that any sort of gutloading with feeders for invert predators is doing anything beneficial.

tkn0spdr · Oct 15, 2004

I feed my pinheads carrot since it makes them orange and therefore easier to see.

TroyMcClureOG82 · Oct 15, 2004

"It's a practice carried over from the herp hobby where it is necessary because the feeder insects routinely fed do not contain sufficient minerals to prevent metabolic bone disease"

I disagree with this point. I've been keeping herps for years and I personally do not have any desire to keep crickets in order to gutload them (they smell) and have never gutloaded. I have never had an animal with metabolic bone disease. There is nothing in the diet of a cricket that would prevent metabolic bone disease. A cricket with a fuller stomach isn't going to have a higher concentration of calcium or D3 in it's body. Also for feading carnivorous lizards gutloading isn't quite as beneficial as it is for feeding omnivores and I would assume the same to be true for Ts. The only purpose I see to gutloading is having bigger plumper feeders which in turn makes them more "efficient".

Code Monkey · Oct 15, 2004

TroyMcClureOG82 said:
"It's a practice carried over from the herp hobby where it is necessary because the feeder insects routinely fed do not contain sufficient minerals to prevent metabolic bone disease"

I disagree with this point. I've been keeping herps for years and I personally do not have any desire to keep crickets in order to gutload them (they smell) and have never gutloaded. I have never had an animal with metabolic bone disease. There is nothing in the diet of a cricket that would prevent metabolic bone disease. A cricket with a fuller stomach isn't going to have a higher concentration of calcium or D3 in it's body. Also for feading carnivorous lizards gutloading isn't quite as beneficial as it is for feeding omnivores and I would assume the same to be true for Ts. The only purpose I see to gutloading is having bigger plumper feeders which in turn makes them more "efficient".

And although you disagree you are apparently unaware of what gutloading actually is. Gutloading is the practice of "loading" the feeder insects with a food high in minerals, particularly calcium, and vit D - compounds the insect will simply crap out in short order but when fed to the animal while the gutload is loaded in the guts of the feeder gets in the animal. What you're describing would be called "feeding".

gothmog · Oct 15, 2004

tkn0spdr said:
I feed my pinheads carrot since it makes them orange and therefore easier to see.

I did this once when I didn't have any potatoes left, my T's ate the crix and pooped bright purple for a month or so

-- Jon

TroyMcClureOG82 · Oct 15, 2004

I've been told the reason for what I described (heavy feeding of feeders prior to feeding) is because many pet shops do a poor job of keeping feeders and they are often starving and dehydrated lowering their nutritional value. I don't know why anybody would waste money on "gutload" when they can always dust their feeders...

Nerri1029 · Oct 15, 2004

TroyMcClureOG82 said:
"It's a practice carried over from the herp hobby where it is necessary because the feeder insects routinely fed do not contain sufficient minerals to prevent metabolic bone disease"

I disagree with this point. I've been keeping herps for years and I personally do not have any desire to keep crickets in order to gutload them (they smell) and have never gutloaded. I have never had an animal with metabolic bone disease. There is nothing in the diet of a cricket that would prevent metabolic bone disease. A cricket with a fuller stomach isn't going to have a higher concentration of calcium or D3 in it's body. Also for feading carnivorous lizards gutloading isn't quite as beneficial as it is for feeding omnivores and I would assume the same to be true for Ts. The only purpose I see to gutloading is having bigger plumper feeders which in turn makes them more "efficient".

I used to raise and breed Herps..
I never gut loaded.. I dusted them with suppliments.. MUCH more effective..

When herps lay eggs they need A REALLY good diet. lots of Calcium..

Is this the same with T's??

Code Monkey · Oct 16, 2004

Nerri1029 said:
When herps lay eggs they need A REALLY good diet. lots of Calcium..

Is this the same with T's??

No, calcium is a very unneeded mineral with inverts. It is used in small amounts as a cation within their nervous system but there is no structural component such as their exoskeleton and egg casings that incorporate significant calcium. The most likely effect of increasing minerals (by dusting or gutloading

) with inverts is increasing their need for water to eliminate the excess minerals and increasing the amount of tarantula crap in your tank - it's not going to be beneficial.

CIRE · Oct 16, 2004

Wow....I wasn't planning on having this post go into the ever-present debate of "to gut, or not to gut"

.....I was simply curious as to which feeder insect is consumed more thorougly, with the least amount of leftovers...and consequently, if an enclosure if kept moist, then fewer remains that can potentially cause mold growth...

willywonka · Oct 16, 2004

Code Monkey said:
Gutloading in my opinion is about as useful for feeding inverts as singing to them. It's a practice carried over from the herp hobby where it is necessary because the feeder insects routinely fed do not contain sufficient minerals to prevent metabolic bone disease. There is no basis to assume that any sort of gutloading with feeders for invert predators is doing anything beneficial.

I agree with you that gutloading is for the herp hobby but what about making sure that your prey is well hydrated before feeding to your inverts? Wouldn't your inverts benefit from the higher water content in their prey?

Code Monkey · Oct 16, 2004

willywonka said:
I agree with you that gutloading is for the herp hobby but what about making sure that your prey is well hydrated before feeding to your inverts? Wouldn't your inverts benefit from the higher water content in their prey?

To followup on my comment earlier: this is called "watering"

Of course you should be feeding and watering your feeder insects, however that's not "gutloading" per se. I'd pretty much call it common sense: a well fed and watered roach or cricket will be providing more water and more flesh than a scrawny one.

Rounder · Oct 16, 2004

Code Monkey said:
To followup on my comment earlier: this is called "watering"

Of course you should be feeding and watering your feeder insects, however that's not "gutloading" per se. I'd pretty much call it common sense: a well fed and watered roach or cricket will be providing more water and more flesh than a scrawny one.

A few weeks ago I read someone made a sort of "paste" with cereal and water, for the crix to eat, so they would be hydrated come feeding time. Haven't tried it myself, but it sounds good.

Most "efficient" feeder insect???

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