is cross breeding possible?

herp_house · Mar 8, 2005

im kinda new to breeding T's amd i want to know if it is possible to breed a giant zebra stripe male with a proven hation brown birdeater? please get back to me with any info you may have.

Darwinsdad · Mar 8, 2005

only if you want your male to be eaten by the female. The DNA between the two species is different so it wont work.

Blasphemy · Mar 8, 2005

That's interesting. But what about specimens in the same genus? say a B. smithi with a B. boehmi?

Darwinsdad · Mar 8, 2005

some suggest that many common species are in actually cross breeds them selfs but I am not sure this has been proven. I have not heard on the boards if any one has actually managed to interbreed two specimens of the same genuse or not but it is discouraged for many reasons.The search function could tell you much more in less time than me typing it to you.

Blasphemy · Mar 8, 2005

After a quick search I found a thread started (and then later closed) earlier this month on the same subject. Has much of the same questions, and some answers I suppose.

Link to post

There was also a link to a picture in that thread which shows a hybrid of the genus Brachypelma here

Sheri · Mar 8, 2005

Blasphemy said:
After a quick search I found a thread started (and then later closed) earlier this month on the same subject. Has much of the same questions, and some answers I suppose.

Link to post

There was also a link to a picture in that thread which shows a hybrid of the genus Brachypelma here

Excellent use of the search function!

M

is

for

more!

TheDarkFinder · Mar 8, 2005

If you do

It is possible but not probable. Do us one favor. Take pictures of the male and female. If you are going to take on this task DO NOT SELL THEM. The market is not ready for hybrids. I'm completely for hybrids but they need to be started right. Doing it right will need a center log, full taximony of both the parents and offspring, and a lot of time. Any time we start crossing species, we need to understand what we are doing. If you are doing this for a what if ich, please do not. If you are intersted in creating beautful tarantulas and have thousands of dollars to spend on the process, get it a shot. You will need to lie to sell the slings, no one will buy a hybrids right now. I would not and I support it. Publish, full pictures and taxmony, your results but do not sell.

thedarkfinder

David Burns · Mar 8, 2005

I've said it before and here we go again.

HYBRIDS ARE STERILE!!!

So they are a dead end! If they are not sterile then they are not hybrids and you will have proved that the parental species need to be reclassified.

TheDarkFinder · Mar 8, 2005

David Burns said:
I've said it before and here we go again.

HYBRIDS ARE STERILE!!!

So they are a dead end! If they are not sterile then they are not hybrids and you will have proved that the parental species need to be reclassified.

WHAT????? I have read the past post, searched.
House cats with bobcats, had one during my youth.
Lyger, part tiger, part lion, completely possible and exist in several zoos around the world.
100,000 different types of orchid hybirds, out of 30,000 species. It is almost impossible to get a species orchid anymore, with outsearching for breeders on the web. Almost all of the hybrids of orchids are not only fertitle but grow and bloom better. Not knocking species orchids, being collecting them for a while, but I have a hybrid Phal. blooming from 4 spikes for the last 4 months and my Phal. bellina produces four flowers once every other year.
Hybrids are stronger, better, and tougher then species. Almost any plant you buy at the store is a hybrid. Corn, wheat, soybeans, and tomatoes are hybrids. In fact I could not point out one species plant that is used in any commerical production. Hydrids are not twisted, just better.

Tarantulas are really young in the cross breeding lines. Please do it right. Look at the first orchid crosses, it was like a bus hiting a baby carriage. (Lot of baby considering how much bus there was.)
thedarkfinder
PS you can breed almost any orchid to any other. You will need to step to other species to get there.

David Burns · Mar 8, 2005

HYBRIDS ARE STERILE!!! is the basis for determining species based on the Biological Species Concept of MAYR/HENNING. For more elaboration on this topic Check the links on Sheri post. Particularly "M"

Cats and bobcats are subspecies, as are lions and tigers.

<edit> Link was already posted>

CedrikG · Mar 8, 2005

there been tons and tons of tread about it already ........ the breed fail in 90% and if that work the sac are many tiem infertile. .. this said its not impossible

Scorpiove · Mar 9, 2005

David Burns said:
HYBRIDS ARE STERILE!!! is the basis for determining species based on the Biological Species Concept of MAYR/HENNING. For more elaboration on this topic;
www/arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=34646&page=1&pp=15

Cats and bobcats are subspecies, as are lions and tigers.

<edit> for some reason the link wont post>

Tigers are "Panthera tigris"
Lions are "Panthera leo"

They are not subspecies of one another. They have many physical characteristics separating them. Besides physical differences there are behavioral differences such as the Tiger's love of water and a lion dispises it.
Besides most Ligers are infertile. A Liger is a cross between a male lion and a female tiger. The problem with that is that the growth inhibiting genes are carried on by only female lions and male tigers.

So Ligers continue to grow ever bigger throughout their lives becoming very large and eventually dying due to there body not being able to support the weight. A tigon however will reach a final mature size that is smaller than the average lion or tiger because it has the groth inhibiting genes from the female lion and the male tiger. Keep in mind most of these animals are infertile.... but not all.... there have been some fertile ligers and tigons.

Another thing is that biology doesn't have to conform to taxonomy. At what point do mutations become a new species? You think biology cares? At what point was a chimp a different species from a human? They both have a common ancestor as do all life. Also at one point human ancestors were probably still able to interbreed with the chimpanzee ancestors.... talking after the initial split of the two different species.

David Burns · Mar 9, 2005

You're right Ligers and Tigons are hybrids But I haven't found any info on them being fertile. If they were, Lions and tigers would both have to be reclassified. It is the inability to breed or the infertility of hybrids that determines if two species are separate. If you breed two seperate species of tarantula and get fertile offspring to two or more generations. Then you should write and publish a scientific paper. If it stands up to scrutiny from the scientific community then the original species will be reclassified and your name will go after the new classification. You might notice that there is still alot of reclassification going on.

David_F · Mar 9, 2005

David Burns said:
It is the inability to breed or the infertility of hybrids that determines if two species are separate.

I don't know for sure, just looking for clarification, but, doesn't the "inability" to breed also take geographic separation into account? Example, lions and tigers (I know tarantulas are not lions and tigers

) are different species but, if it's true that there have been fertile offspring produced (again, I don't know. I'll have to do some searching) between the two, what does that say? They should be reclassified as the same species or subspecies? I think their geographic isolation from one another has a role to play in the separation of the two species as well as other, maybe more obvious, factors.

Scorpiove · Mar 9, 2005

http://www.forevertigers.com/evolution.htm

There is a picture on that link of a Tigon and her son a Ti-Tigon (son's father was a siberian tiger.)

http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/ligers2.html

"Sterility:
No fertile male ligers have yet been found and it is assumed all are sterile. This is not the case with females and a 15-year-old ligeress at Munich Zoo produced a li-liger after mating with a lion."

Raqua · Mar 9, 2005

There was a report of Psalmopoeus cambridgei and irminia crosbreeding, including pictures by respected arachnologist here in a local herp/invert magazine. He wasn't selling them, he just wanted to give it a try. They were used as a feeders later and I have to say thay I agree. I'm not into hybrids. We might end up like dog keepers - vet visits, lots of medicine for our pets and T's with ponnytails ...

:?

FryLock · Mar 9, 2005

If you read thought the threads linked to here (and a few more) you will see that captive hybrids don’t really count at the end of the day even if there physical able to do it and even if there so genetically so close the offspring can produce offspring not only with there parents (which some "true" hybrids can do) but also with there siblings it still does not automatically mean the parents have to be the same species in fact Ernst Mayr acknowledged this fact in 96 I cannot find the quote but it pertained to this subject (no doubt from what has been learned from wild animals bred as pets).

In the wild inhibiting mechanisms that stop related species mating can take many forms but many of them can be lost under captive conditions (range/scent/seasonal patterns ect) we all know many snakes with produce fertile offspring from both inter species and even inter genus mating’s there are also cases of both from fish in the pet trade (many cichlids iirc) but these are in many cases unknown in the wild so again they still hold up (for time being) as species.

8leggedrobot · Mar 9, 2005

The biggest problem I can personally see with hybrid Ts in the trade is how it effects the bloodlines of species. If I pay 200$ for a T, I want it to be 100% of what I paid for. Hybrids will dilute the purity of the stock when unscrupulous sellers try to pass off a T as something it's only 1/2 of.

But really I'm for hybrids myself, if it can be done responsibly. But there's the rub.

TheDarkFinder · Mar 9, 2005

David Burns said:
HYBRIDS ARE STERILE!!! is the basis for determining species based on the Biological Species Concept of MAYR/HENNING. For more elaboration on this topic Check the links on Sheri post. Particularly "M"

Cats and bobcats are subspecies, as are lions and tigers.

<edit> Link was already posted>

bobcat=Lynx rufus
housecat=Felis domesticus
Thousands of orchids can not be wrong.
purity is overrated.
Some of the most beautiful people are mixes of different cultures.
thedarkfinder

Raqua · Mar 9, 2005

TheDarkFinder said:
Some of the most beautiful people are mixes of different cultures.

But not the species ...

is cross breeding possible?

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