Question for anyone who has ever sold a Tarantula

I've got a question to everyone out there. I sold a tarantula to someone about 2 months ago. I sold the tarantula (P. irminia) for $35...that included the shipping charges [I thought that was a GREAT deal]. I sold the tarantula as UNSEXED! I never tried to pass the tarantula off as anything else but unsexed.

Well, two months later the person is contacting me saying that they want some of their money back. They told me that the tarantula molted into a male and that the legs are messed up after the molt. Needless to say I cannot be held accountable for the bad molt. I can say that I have NEVER had a tarantula in my care have a "Bad Molt" (i.e. death or deformed legs).

My question to everybody is when do you think the responsibility of a seller or dealer ends? Are we as sellers, dealers, or traders liable for bad molts? Are we liable to a person when we sell them an "unsexed" tarantula when the tarantula comes out a different sex from what they wanted?

What I plan on doing is to refund the $35 dollars for the tarantula. The stipulation is that they have to ship the tarantula back to me. I don't really feel that it is my responsibility to refund their money...To me it is kinda like getting a surrogate mother to have your baby and when the baby is born you decide that you want to return the child because the child wasn't the sex that you wanted and feel that you should have gotten what you paid for.

i dont think it is your fault. If you sold it as unsexed and it turned out to be a male, u should not give a refund since that is a risk that the buyer must be aware of (not that being a male is a bad or anything ) Also, the bad molt may have some from not being hydrated or some other error of this person. If it had molted two hours or days after receiving it, things might be different, but this is 2 MONTHS. In order to avoid conflict and the annoyances of this person, i am for u refunding the $ with the condition that the buyer pay shipping. Hopefully the legs are not bleeding and he can make the journey. I do not hold you responsible and i think it is ridiculous that this person is demanding a refund. You are not liable for the sex of an unsexed tarantula and it is a risk. In fairness you should not refund, but for the sake of the tarantula, you should get it back and sell it to someone who can mate him or give him a better home.

if you shipped out the T in good condition than your conscious showed be clear in terms of refund. He had 2 months to do whatever he did, maybe he used gravek substrate and that affected the molt who knowes. As soon as the T is in his posession its his life to continue or destroy....dont pay for his mistakes.

Definitely not your responsibility. If it was labeled as unsexed the buyer got a good deal (hell, they got a good deal even if the spider had been sold as confirmed male). After two months you can't be held responsible for a bad molt either. Stuff like that just happens (bad genetics, bad husbandry, etc.).

The only problem is maybe the buyer thought, since it was big enough to be sexed, you knowingly sold a male spider as unsexed but I still see that as a personal problem. If someone's going to buy a spider big enough to be sexed they should probably look into the deal more (i.e. ask to have it sexed, request photos, etc.) instead of just seeing the price tag and, eventually, as in this case, trying to make a bad name for someone. If it were me, I'd try to work something out with the buyer but I don't think that would include a refund.

if someone wants guarantees on sex and live arrival they should buy (and pay well!!) for a guaranteed female incl shipping with a professional dealer. whenever someone wants a nice deal, a cheap UNSEXED spider and take a little risk, then order from a private person.
imho no refund, no nothing!

Eddy

Hi,

i totally agree with Eddy. You sold the spider 2 month ago as unsexed. Where is the problem of the buyer now ? If he had bougth the spider 2 days ago - this would be something different. But you are not liable for any bad moults that are after 2 month of care in other hands!

Tell him, that he should give the male (if the male is good enough for mating) for breeding project and he will get several small spiderlings (if all went well) and those he can sell and wil earn more money than "only" $35.

BTW: Bad moults are not nice, but such things happen.

It's absolutely his problem. He knew the deal beforehand and payed for it. You can't be held accountable for any of it. It's not as if you sold him a brand new toaster that burned up after 2 months.

Selling as unsexed is a good thing if you're not 100% sure of the sex (via moult check).

If you have sold Ts to other people too you can use them as future references in case that person want's to diss you publicly. If not you can always sell T's on the board I guess

Edit:
You weren't out to srew him, so don't let him screw you because he doesn't take responsibility for his side of the deal and possibly can't take care of his T either.

So much time has passed since the deal that it doesn't make a big difference wether 2 months or 1 year have passed and I guess after a year you wouldn't have refunded him either and not even started this thread.

If You need a russian lawyer as an legal advice where should be several points to be counted.
First one - the conditions of purchasing as per Your words above doesn't mean that You has been obligate to send him sexed female.
If so He do not have any right for replacement or refund of money.
Other point is that according the international trade law all reclaimes must be given during the period stated at the contract or if not - in possibly "reasonable time".
2 months if it is concern the living creature obviousely do not anything with ?"reasonable time".
And the third thing is that the molting process of tarantulas as all we know do not depends of the reasons which has can be considering Your fault but mostly of the keeping conditions provided by the new owner as well as a some non-legal term the owner's "luck" which means something like the term analogous in the current situation to "commercial risk"...
So as above noted you do not have legal obligations for the replacement of the tarantula or refund of the money. But Your good will is also Your presonal deal.
Hope this helps..

Sounds like you held up your end of things. I'd tell the buyer that I had never agreed to provide them with a female and there was no way that I was responsable for a bad molt 2 months after shippng the animal. I would also make sure that they understood that there was never any guarantee as to the sex or the future longevity of the animal once in their care. If you're gonna do anything with a refund, I suggest that you take one for the spider and refund the money on the condition that the spider is shippped back to you alive before the refund is mailed. Also keep in mind that you can't be sure that this person isn't just trying to rip you off. They could be hoping that you will just send them their money back if they play the crybaby, while they keep a perfectly healthy spider.
Watch your back and make sure at the end of it all you either have the money or the spider. Just my opinion. Take it how you will. Good luck!

The first tarantula I received was missing a leg...I never complained about that as she was looking healty and the seller was a nice guy, I hope the leg will regrow in a few molts...
If it is everything like you said I don't see any reason why you should refound money...

Coming from the reptile world, I agree with most of what was said here. Unfortunately, there are a lot of "snakes" in the spider world as well! There are many people out there who will take advantage of you. They look for "nice" people. Stand your ground,,, if it was sold as Unsexed, that's just what it was. They had a 50/50 chance that "they" took. Like others said, if they wanted a guaranteed female, they should have splurged and bought one. As for the bad molt,,, that's just something that happens, not to mention, you have no idea what conditions they kept this thing in for 2 months. A warning as well,,, if you take it back, I may have mites or who knows what. If you do (which I wouldn't), make sure you quarantine it "strictly".
I would have done just as you were thinking, with taking it back & refunding the money etc. when I was new to the reptile world but I started seeing patterns. Soooo many people will feel you out and take all they can get.
Be fair, but remember to be fair to yourself first! 2 months is a long time.

Good luck.
JoelR

Tell him to jump off a bridge.
You sold it as unsexed for $35 which included the shipping. It was a great deal no matter what. Also, his claims of a bad molt...first, there may be nothing wrong at all and he's just claiming that to get money out of you since he's upset about the sex. Second, the bad molt may have been caused by his stupidity by disturbing it or not having it in the right conditions. 2 months is way too long for you to take responsibility.

A P irmina for $35 including shipping? Whoever you sold it to seems to have little to no appreciation for T keeping nor knowledge of how "things are done". You are very kind to offer a refund...which is definitely not called for.
Joel R brings up a good point...if this person sends the spider back, there's a risk that its not healthy.
HA! good luck to this one trying to pack up a P irminia!!!
You owned up to ur responsibility...you sold the T as unsexed...you sent out a healthy T...healthy T received by purchaser. End of story.

Sometimes the breeder/seller must be held accountable for up to the first molt, after that - nothing. I say this only because during shipping the spider could have sustained internal injuries leading to a DIM (death in molt). If the creature is wild caught and dies before or during a molt, the breeder should be held accountable. However, this was not wild caught, I speculate, and it survived the first molt. It may be messed up, but that is not your fault. Messed up legs during a molt may be attributed to the environment in which it lived - which falls on the owner, not the seller. The best thing you can do is to tell him you'll take it back and credit him to another buy with you (exluding shipping) or pay back only half and tell him to keep it. Also, the current owner should pay the new shipping charges to send back to you. Above everything else, you are not responsible for anything.

There is always a way to handle people.

The Sickness

Now it's a mature male P. irminia?

Heh - tell him to send it right to me for a loan and *I'll* pay shipping.

I don't think you did anything wrong and I don't think that you should have to refund any money. You were upfront and honest the whole time - it's not your fault the spider had a bad molt or is male.

I've received a spider that died a few days later and (even though the seller refunded my money 100%) I didn't expect a refund.

Let me say, this person who purchased the tarantula was ME. I simply asked if a refund could be made, or have another animal sent in return. I came to my senses a day later and realized this was not the thing to do, as it was probably my fault he molted out deformed (not entirely deformed). This was my first P. irminia, and I have been extremely busy with my son's hospital delima's, so I misted occasionally, but obviously not enough. The P. irminia barely moved, never drank water that I could see. So obviously an upcoming molt was due, which I did not notice. I just found it lying on the bottom of the cage all of the time doing nothing, and decided I didnt want it afterall. Atleast until it molted. It's a good thing I didnt sell it atleast.

I sent you a PM saying that I didnt think you should send me money back, but you have not read it yet since you havent been online. I feel like such an arse now, and a bit ashamed. Though I will not hide and pretend it was not me.

Im fairly knowledgeable about the care of my tarantula's, though I have had some bad luck with a few, which is why I am slimming down on some.

I agree, you shouldnt have to refund my money OR send me another animal, as this was not your fault. I was simply hoping some arrangements could be made due to the fact that I couldnt afford to lose out. Though, as I said, I came to my senses. Yesterday was a bad day for me, and I kinda jumped the gun. But I did not send you a nasty PM, I simply stated the condition of the animal, and hoped to get some compensation for it, not once did I lash out at you for anything. I even asked for only $25 of that back.

So anyway, I apologize. This male will hopefully be sent out for breeding, as he is wandering around looking for a mate, and even drummed this morning. Im over what has happened to him, and im quite satisfied having a male that can possibly breed. If not, I will not be disappointed about that either.

Oh, and the T was purchased last month, approx around the time of my birthday, Sept 21st. Ill have to look for dates. Ok, found the date, 9/9/05 as can be seen here, so almost 1 month ago http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=44214

Also, let me say, Im not accusing you of anything, besides not talking more to me about this before posting. I made a mistake, I was embarrassed, and I attempted to fix the problem.

A P irmina for $35 including shipping? Whoever you sold it to seems to have little to no appreciation for T keeping nor knowledge of how "things are done". You are very kind to offer a refund...which is definitely not called for.

Click to expand...

No need to get rude about it, sheesh.

Here's the PM I sent first:

Old Yesterday, 09:29 AM
WhyTeDraGon
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P. irminia
The P. irminia you sent me turned out to be a male, it just matured. Is there anything else you can trade it for, as I dont need a mature male?

Thanks

~Crystal

2nd PM:

WhyTeDraGon
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P. irminia
Just noticed this male may not even be good for breeding. He seems to have deformed legs.
If you possibly could send me atleast $25 back from him, id appreciate it. I cant do anything with this spider.

Sorry
__________

Your reply:

maxamillian
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Re: P. irminia
Hello,

I didn't guarantee the sex of the P. irminia. I sold him as unsexed. As for the molt, it depends on how much liquid the Tarantula consummed before molting and what the humidity in the tank was. I cannot account for the deformed legs because I was not the one controlling the humidity or his diet. If he had trouble molting it was due to the humidity and temperature in the tank and probably a lack of liquid in his diet. I also didn't charge you for shipping the Tarantula. If anything, I am resolved of any responsibility in this matter.

I have no use for the P. irminia...but with that said, I can be fair. I will refund to you the price of the Tarantula ($35). I just need you to overnight him back to me. I'll go ahead and get a Cashier's Check ready for you in the Amount of $35.

Thank You,

William

My reply that you havent gotten a chance to read yet:

WhyTeDraGon
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nah, that wont be necessary, im gonna see if I cant loan him out. You are right, you didnt guarantee the sex, so you cannot account for it. And I may have had some humidity problems, so next time ill know to keep them up more.
Thanks for the reply. Dont worry about the money, ill be alright

WhyTeDraGon said:

So anyway, my apologize. This male will hopefully be sent out for breeding, as he is wandering around looking for a mate, and even drummed this morning.

Click to expand...

*coughs*

Freshly molted female here...

Yeah two months is kind of long for a refund. I'd say if it dies within the first couple of days or is DOA then you could possibly be at fault, but all of that stuff should be disclosed. I've gotten one spider from a private seller and I knew it was unsexed, and that if it died during shipping then I'd pretty much be out of luck. That's just the risk you take when you buy a live animal out of someones personal collection. It could live five years, or five days. Also if it had a bad molt that's probably due to low humidity or a stressed spider, and has nothing at all to do with you.

Also - I'm not sure it was very tactful to post this in a public forum when the other person involved is an active member. I mean, ask a few people privately for their opinion, but public posting probably isn't the best idea.

Thanks Becca. To everyone else that posted, you dont need to say anything further about it, I KNOW that I was wrong for asking for a refund.

I just dont think it was very fair to post this hours after you found out about it, and barely spoke to me about it. Atleast give me the respect to redeem myself.
I realized I was wrong, but obviously it was too late on your end. And why even ask this question here? When you knew what you should do about it. Was it simply out of anger?

Im totally ashamed now, simply because I said something wrong, and didnt get a chance to fix the problem, though I tried. You can look at my reviews to see that im NOT out to screw anyone. There's even a certain person on this forum whom was willing to replace a T. blondi for me, but I asked him not to, because it was not his fault I was gone all weekend at the hospital with my son.

I just hope no one will see me as the "bad guy" here, because im not, I just simply said the wrong thing.

Let me add this: If it were me who sent someone a spider, even unsexed, and it turned out to be male, I would definitely refund or replace the animal, but that's just me. And yes, I suppose it goes against the official "rules" of the business.