Moths

Geography Guy

Arachnobaron
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I would like to start keeping types of moths. But I have no experience with them. I would like to start with Luna and Atlas Moths. Where would I get the Caterpilars from? How long do moths live for? So could someone help me out?
 

PINK1081

Arachnosquire
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Bill Oehlke sells eggs from Prince Edward Island and has a great web site on moths. I bought some from him several years ago, really great to deal with.
Jim
 
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Peter_Parker

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Geography Guy said:
I would like to start keeping types of moths. But I have no experience with them. I would like to start with Luna and Atlas Moths. Where would I get the Caterpilars from? How long do moths live for? So could someone help me out?
Since most of the large saturniid moths don't possess mouth parts as adults they only live from 1-2 weeks as adults usually. I hear that for all their size and beauty Atlas moths in particular rarely make it over a week, only living long enough to mate. Plus I'm told the caterpillars only feed on certain types of citrus leaves, so I don't know how easy they would be to keep in captivity for a beginner (assuming you can find some). Won't be an interesting challenge though, cause If you get a female they can reproduce via parthenogenesis so you could end up with a ton of eggs (they'd all be male, though :D ).

Try this site though, they can probably help you get native North American moth species: http://www.birdsnbs.com/page16/page16.html
 

Geography Guy

Arachnobaron
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Peter_Parker said:
Since most of the large saturniid moths don't possess mouth parts as adults they only live from 1-2 weeks as adults usually. I hear that for all their size and beauty Atlas moths in particular rarely make it over a week, only living long enough to mate. Plus I'm told the caterpillars only feed on certain types of citrus leaves, so I don't know how easy they would be to keep in captivity for a beginner (assuming you can find some). Won't be an interesting challenge though, cause If you get a female they can reproduce via parthenogenesis so you could end up with a ton of eggs (they'd all be male, though :D ).

Try this site though, they can probably help you get native North American moth species: http://www.birdsnbs.com/page16/page16.html

If Luna Moths lived as long as Ts. That would awsome. Why would they all me males? Is there any real difference between females and males like Ts where there is a major colouration difference?
 
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Peter_Parker

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Geography Guy said:
If Luna Moths lived as long as Ts. That would awsome. Why would they all me males? Is there any real difference between females and males like Ts where there is a major colouration difference?
Yeah I wish they lived as long as T's or even some butterflies! The problem is since the giant silk moths don't have a functional proboscis like butterflies, they can only rely on the fat stores they saved up as a caterpillar. A lot of moths are highly sexually dimorphic, Io moth males have bright yellow forewings but the females have this burnt orange colored wings. I'm pretty sure the Promethea moth has males that are a really dark mahogany color, but the females are more reddish. As for the rest, usually females are larger than males with a fat abdomen and rounder wings while the males have slim wings, slim abdomens, and big feathery antennae. Hope that helps :)
 

PINK1081

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The males have a highly developed antennae that can pick up the females pheromone or scent. They are wide and feathery. The females antennae are narrow. Other wise most males and females look the same in color.
Jim
 

Peter_Parker

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Geography Guy said:
Is there any moth that lives for at least a year? How long to Butterflys live?
I don't think any of the saturniid moths (or much any moth for that matter) lives for more than a week or two at best, even the ones capable of eating. Not sure if butterflies are much better, but I doubt any of them would live as long as a year, except maybe a monarch which probably has one of the longest lives since it has to migrate down south. I guess the best way is to get them as eggs and grow them until adulthood. Depending on the species it could be a year or longer until the mature.
 

Farom

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Peter_Parker said:
If you get a female they can reproduce via parthenogenesis so you could end up with a ton of eggs (they'd all be male, though :D ).
Where did you hear/read this? Female moths will sometimes lay eggs without mating, but that doesnt mean they will hatch. And if they did, they would be females, not males.

Atlas moths are probably not the best species to start with. They need more specific conditions than most other moths.
However, luna moths are said to be one of the easiest to rear of the saturniids.

Thanks,
Andrew
 

ErikH

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When I was a kid I raised a luna moth, and also a polyphemus moth. Both were caterpillars I caught in the wild. The caterpillars were easy to keep, I just kept them in a gallon tupperware type container with air holes and I provided fresh leaves for them to eat daily. I had no means for keeping an adult moth, however, so I let them go when the wings were hard enough for them to fly.
 

Peter_Parker

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Andrew P. said:
Where did you hear/read this? Female moths will sometimes lay eggs without mating, but that doesnt mean they will hatch. And if they did, they would be females, not males.

Atlas moths are probably not the best species to start with. They need more specific conditions than most other moths.
However, luna moths are said to be one of the easiest to rear of the saturniids.

Thanks,
Andrew
as soon as I find the article I read that I will post it (I thought it was strange too, but hey ;)
 

Peter_Parker

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Oh yeah and before I forget, many species of social hymenopterans have females which lay unfertilized eggs that become males and the fertilized ones become females, so it's not unheard of in the insect world. It may not be true parthenogenesis, but it would make sense otherwise. Just fyi :D
 

Jesse607

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Peter_Parker said:
Oh yeah and before I forget, many species of social hymenopterans have females which lay unfertilized eggs that become males and the fertilized ones become females, so it's not unheard of in the insect world. It may not be true parthenogenesis, but it would make sense otherwise. Just fyi :D
That is because of the haploid/diploid phenomenon (which I don't feel like explaining), in which I believe only hymenoptera and some coleopteran families are capable of, but hey there are always exceptions in the insect world?
 

Galapoheros

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I've bought cocoons from Bill Oehlke (?). One Spring I bought Luna, Cecropia and Polyphemus cocoons. From the adults I got eggs and raised about 10 caterpillars of each of the species all in the same spring and summer. Man that was well worth it! I'm going to do it again. I put a female Polyphemus moth out in a cage one night and males came by and landed on her cage. The caterpillars where the most interesting part of it for me. He has a list of host plants for each caterpillar on his site. I fed the Luna cats hickory and the Poly Live oak. Poly's also like Elm. I don't remember about the Cecropia cat. I don't remember citrus being a favorite of any North American silkworm moth(?).
 
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Peter_Parker

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Galapoheros said:
I've bought cocoons from Bill Oehlke (?). One Spring I bought Luna, Cecropia and Polyphemus cocoons. From the adults I got eggs and raised about 10 caterpillars of each of the species all in the same spring and summer. Man that was well worth it! I'm going to do it again. I put a female Polyphemus moth out in a cage one night and males came by and landed on her cage. The caterpillars where the most interesting part of it for me. He has a list of host plants for each caterpillar on his site. I fed the Luna cats hickory and the Poly Live oak. Poly's also like Elm. I don't remember about the Cecropia cat. I don't remember citrus being a favorite of any North American silkworm moth(?).
Which species of moth in north america is the earliest to eclose from it's cocoon?
 

Galapoheros

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Peter_Parker said:
Which species of moth in north america is the earliest to eclose from it's cocoon?
Of all the N. American moths? I don't know. A good time to Google if you haven't already. I didn't buy any of the species of moths I raised that year at the same time. In fact, I bought the Polyphemus cocoons in the Fall, so I put them in the fridge until around March.
 

Peter_Parker

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It said that lunas are the earliest to appear, then polyphemus and cecropia. I plan on buying cocoons or eggs of all the species common to my state in an attempt to re-introduce them into my area. I'll probably do it around early/mid march, and I want to do the cage thing with all the females to see if there are even any males in my area at all :?
 

BurrowDweller

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Lunas seem to appear fairly early here in KY. The area I am in also seems to have more large moths than many places I have been. Lunas are VERY common.
 

Peter_Parker

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BurrowDweller said:
Lunas seem to appear fairly early here in KY. The area I am in also seems to have more large moths than many places I have been. Lunas are VERY common.
Wow, I love Kentucky! First place I ever saw a saturniid in the wild! {D We were there for a family reunion and we went to a cemetary where a lot of my ancestors were burried (which happened to now be inside some deep woods, lol) and there was a newly emerged female luna sitting on a twig which I still have pictures of to this day! It sux that we don't have them in the suburban areas around here (as far as I can tell):mad: Then again we could have them and I just never see them, but I put light traps out and everything with no success, so I hope the pheromone thing will work.
 

PINK1081

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I think you will be suprised when the males come in at 2 am to visit your females ( they only fly late at night ). It is really something to see.

A few years ago I had a female that did not attract a mate, so after several days I released her early one morning. It was just gettng light when she flew up and over the neighbors house. As she reached the top of the roof a bat came around the house and took her right out of the air:eek:.

Birds will learn real quick the they can take the male right off the outside of the cage and pull the female through the wire. When my son and I first raised luna's an gentleman from Germany ( he lived in New York State and had a Butterfly Museum there ) showed us how to tie the virgins in a loop of light string and put them in a tree over night for mating, it worked GREAT, untill we got up late one morning after putting 2 virgins out the night before. We found 2 empty loops and the wings on the ground. That's Nature....
Jim


Jim
 
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