Venom Toxicity Table

Below is a table from:
Escoubas, Pierre & Lachlan Rash. "Tarantulas: eight legged pharmacists and combinatorial chemists." Toxicon 43 (2004): 555-574

The table is based on unpublished data. Escoubas et al. injected 0.1 microliter of venom in the intracerebroventricular (ICV) area (i.e. the top of the skull). For a sense of perspective a small drop of water is roughly 10 to 50 microliters. They then measured how long it took for the mouse to die. The caption has much more necessary info for reading the table. Thought I'd share.

http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pagesfromescoubasetal0fk.jpg

Practically speaking it probably has small relevance to effects felt by humans when bit but still cool info nonetheless.

Again the table is taken from:
Escoubas, Pierre & Lachlan Rash. "Tarantulas: eight legged pharmacists and combinatorial chemists." Toxicon 43 (2004): 555-574

Very interesting! thank you...

fascinating. who would have expected G. rosea to be in the same class as P. regalis and H. lividium?

I think it's safe to assume that, for people anyway, a G. rosea bite would be less problematic than P. regalis. Thoth, would you say that this is due to factors like the amount of venom injected or simply that some component of the venom is particularly toxic to mice but not so much to people?

Well one issue is that even though mice are used in many studies, what happens in mice does not correlate to what happens in people. Also there are very few papers I could find that deal with the characterization of Poecilotheria venom whereas the are many more dealing with the components of G.rosea (G.spatulata) venom. Though in the paper the table is from most t venom is very similiar species to species differing mainly in the relative amounts of the 30 some odd peptides that are the main constituents of the venom.

Also tarantula venom seems not to be as effective on humans as on other animal, for whatever reason. There was a paper (Ibister et al. Toxicon 41 (2003): 519–524) about the effect of Selenocosmia spp. and Phlogiellus spp. bites on 9 dogs and their owners and all the dogs died (a couple were in the 40 - 50 kg weight range so it was not a size/dosage issue) and most of the owners only suffer some pain from the bite.

Also I think part of it is the relative docility of rosies as compared to pokies far fewer people have been bitten by rosies than pokies, and possibly a higher chance of a dry bite with rosie, so there are fewer anectdotes of the effects of rosie bites. So a rosie bite might be actually be as bad as a pokie bite. Though this is all insomnia inspired guesswork on my part at this point.

It might be as you say it is the amount of venom or its relative make up of the venom, I just don't know.

That is a very interesting article. I was particularly iterested in a couple of things:
First, the variation within a genus. Compare (for example) Avicularia utricans with A. avicularia -- a huge difference.
Second, and particularly interesting to me, as I keep mostly NW terrestrials, was the potency of the venom of species such as Grammostola rosea and G. pulchra, which are generally considered our least threatening. I have noticed, however, that Grammostola species do not often use their venom. My roseas and aureostriatas tend to grab roaches, using their fangs like forceps, and hold them for quite some time, like that, until the prey stops squirming. Whether the prey ever receives any venom or not, I do not know. Obviously, a prey item like a mouse would be an entirely different scenario from even a large Blaberus discoidalis.
I'd be interested in seeing more about the biochemistry of tarantula venom and its effects on potential prey items and on humans. There are obviously, as Thoth has stated, a large number of variables to be taken into consideration, but this is absolutely fascinating stuff. Maybe I SHOULD go back and get my PhD. This would make for a very interesting thesis.

venom table

The table cannot be opened,could you repost the table?

sigabang said:

The table cannot be opened,could you repost the table?

Click to expand...

It looks like the OP hasn't posted in a couple of years so you're probably out of luck.

But on the bright side, this was one of the best episodes of The Walking Thread yet. Last season was disappointing with all the tired old dialogue about molting anxiety, the song of my people, ping pong balls, and mudblood tarantulas. Venom toxicity and the tantalizing promise of unpublished data are taking this season in an exciting new direction.

This is a old thread and the OP was last online 25/01/2013.. doubt that the link will be reposted..

Someone else could have downloaded it and be in a position to repost it though after seeing this. That's pretty much the only good reason to bring a thread back to life.

I would have liked to have seen this. I tried an image search but couldn't find it.

It figures. I put one picture on the internet 15 years ago of me in a compromising situation with a goat in a bikini and it never goes away, but this chart vanishes without a trace.

Tim Benzedrine said:

I would have liked to have seen this. I tried an image search but couldn't find it.

It figures. I put one picture on the internet 15 years ago of me in a compromising situation with a goat in a bikini and it never goes away, but this chart vanishes without a trace.

Click to expand...

So who was in the bikini, you or the goat?

Not the table from the article, but here is the data that is in it apparently...

http://www.tarantulas-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4577

paassatt said:

So who was in the bikini, you or the goat?

Click to expand...

You'll just have to pay using any major credit card to find out like everybody else!