Internal Parasites - Ball Pythons

tripleG · Aug 16, 2006

My baby ball python died the other night of an internal parasitic infestation. I had not managed to get her to feed since i acquired her around April/May of this year. She never ate before i bought her to my knowledge and never shed while i had her. I tried everything I could to no avail and now I'm worried that the rest of my colloection could be at risk. I have quarantined them all in separate room and disinfected the place where they were kept. I am also re-housing all of the snakes that were in the same room as the Ball and cleaning their cages with a boiling water/light bleach mixture to be sure they are disinfected. If anyone could help me identify the type of parasite that did this I could research them and find out how contagious they are as well as how to better prevent this from happening to the rest of my pets as well as what to look for in the future. I have posted 2 pics to help identify the culprits, be warned they are graphic images but I know a professional will be able to stomach it and help me identify the parasites. I've included a description below in case the pics are not detailed enough for proper analysis. Thanks for all your help.

The parasites seem to have originated within the body of the animal, not from an external source. The speicmen wan lying in a pool of its own bile/bodily fluids. Body seems deflated and has been split open in several places on the belly where the parasites emerged. There are at least two dozen greyish-white wormlike creatures crawling in and out of the body. I cannot locate any organs it seems as though the parasites consumed them and completely filled the snake's little body. They are about 1" long and 1/4" in diameter and do not like the light. They crawl inside the body and hide beneath it when disturbed. Lower jaw of the specimen seems broken and there were some bones protruding near the head. It's eyes went a dirty greyish-yellow colour and the smell is putrid. (Not unlike any dead animal though) Any thoughts you have as to what these are and what risks are associated with them would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.

Mushroom Spore · Aug 16, 2006

oh what in the name of god is that

Stylopidae · Aug 17, 2006

They look like trachnid fly maggots...although those to my knowledge attack insects, so they're most likely some sort of botfly. Try to raise them to adults (this is the only reliable way to ID maggots to species) and then post good pics of the adults on the boards (if you send me a PM, I will be happy to photograph the adults for you with a high resolution camera, all you have to do is send them to me). Somebody here should be able to identify them.

This is the first time I've ever heard of flies killing snakes, although the fact that it can happen comes as no surprise to me.

If you decide to raise them, do NOT let the flies escape for obvious reasons.

tripleG · Aug 17, 2006

i'll try and raise some of them in a separate room if i can do it securely.. then take some pics and send them to you. Thanks a bunch.

MrT · Aug 17, 2006

Where did you get the snake? Take it to them and show them what they sold or whatever. Thats sick. I hope the rest of your snakes are ok.
I'd be looking for that SOB!!

MrT

Galadriel · Aug 17, 2006

Those aren't internal parasites. They're maggots. How long had your snake been dead when you took that pic?

Stylopidae · Aug 17, 2006

JennS said:
I talked to my friend the vet tech and he looked at the pics. He says he has never heard of any parasitic flies in snakes. If the eggs were laid on a wound and infested the snake, it would have happened after the guy got the snake (he said April/May) because they grow very fast. My friend also said the snake looked to have been dead for a few days. Personally, I find it hard to see a snake surviving to the point where it's organs have been consumed before dying.

However, I just broke out my reptile books. Dr. Mader's Reptile Medicine and Surgery lists two genera of flies: _Calliphorid_ (blowflies) and _Cuterebra_ (bot flies). If the snake had a wound the blowflies could have gotten to it. I did a google search and Cuterebra is a new world species. Perhaps the snake got parasitized in the guy's home? I also looked in Dr. Ackerman's Biology, Husbandry and Health Care of Reptiles, and he states that flies mostly attack tortoises. He doesn't mention bot flies at all. Oh, Dr. Mader's book mentions that for blowflies, it is 43-52 days for development of blowflies, from entering the wound to leaving the wound to pupate.

So, he should raise them up to ID. I'm betting they are blowflies that infested the snake after a rodent bite or other small injury. (I bet he could take the maggots by a large animal vet to see if they have seen them on livestock.) As for them spreading, maggots do not reproduce (adult flies do), so if he eliminates the ones on that snake no other snake will "catch" them. I would check the other snakes and make sure they are eating and palpate them for masses just in case, but if they are eating and acting normally they should not have anything. If they have blowflies, according to Mader's book, "The area around this wound becomes swollen from the mass of maggots and possibly secondary invaders that cause a host response."

If the OP would like to find out more, try googling for "myiasis", the term for flies infesting vertebrate flesh. Hope this helps, I know I kind of meandered a bit while looking things up and talking to my friend. I'll have to show him the info in Mader's book on flies. This has been a learning experience!

Jennifer

This piqued my interest so I posted this in the chat. Somebody PM'ed me this.

I believe these flies may need some substrate to pupate, PM a member here named Dark Raptor. He knows his bugs.

As mentioned above, the maggots will not spread as they are not sexually mature yet.

However, let me re-iterate what I said earlier.

Flies are relatively small and agile. They will always seek out egg laying places after they mate. You need adults to get any sort of ID past family.

DO NOT LET THE ADULTS ESCAPE.

Oh, and google myasis

Galadriel · Aug 17, 2006

The animal was captive bred and as far as I know, there are no bot flies in CANADA!

EvanG · Aug 17, 2006

Flip one of the maggots over, take a picture. I would like to see.

Galadriel · Aug 17, 2006

http://www.arkive.org/media/538F305...on.Large/ large-House-fly-larvae.jpg

House fly maggots. That snake's been dead at least 3 days for them to be that big.

Myasis, aka screw worms, are tropical and semi-topical, and lay thier eggs in warm blooded animals. Don't bother hanging on to them unless you want a colony of house flies. Parasitic fly larvae don't usually kill thier host either. They hatch from the host as adult flies and a 4.5 to 5.5 month incubation period is rediculous.
House flies. Plain and simple.

Barbedwirecat · Aug 17, 2006

I was thinking it might be possible that the food it was given might have been roadkill/parasitized? I would think the stomach acid alone would kill anything off, but if unhealthly to begin with and digestive process stopped might be a reason. I agree with everyone else that said Raise the maggots and post more pics of the top/bottom of the maggots so we might be able to get an ID. Also appox length or put a ruler in the pic, cause those looked WAY too big to be house fly maggots. Cuterebra maybe, but I don't think I've EVER seen them parasitize a snake like that. The snake would have been full of tiney circular holes for them to breath.

tripleG · Aug 17, 2006

you're right the snake had been dead about three days total when those pics were taken but i had to wait for my camera to able to load the pics it was in being repaired.. since there seems to be a confliction of opinions regarding these bugs I'm going to post some better pics for those of you with an interest and i'll include a ruler. These bugs did kill the snake but I'm not sure about the condition of the organs inside. All the food I attempted to feed it was from pet stores not wild or road kill although you can never be sure and the snake never even touched one of them so it couldn't have ingested the bugs through its food. My house is kept free of insects as best as can be, especially the room where i keep my pets. The cage was normally closed and i can't see how any flies would be able to enter it when there aren't any of them visible anywhere in the room or in other cages but thats just me. I'm glad you all seem to agree that its not likely the other snakes have become infested themselves but i keep a close eye on their behaviour and eating patterns. To reiterate, the snake never ate and the substrate was newspaper so it couldn't have come from mulch. Also, there is no possibility of a wound or rodent bite b/c all food was pre-killed and the snake never had any injuries of any sort for them to enter. My thoughts are leaning towards contaminated water? or is it possible they were already inside it when i purchased the snake and reamined dormant b/c i'm not sure of the conditions it was under before then?

Stylopidae · Aug 17, 2006

Galadriel said:
http://www.arkive.org/media/538F305...on.Large/ large-House-fly-larvae.jpg

House fly maggots. That snake's been dead at least 3 days for them to be that big.

Myasis, aka screw worms, are tropical and semi-topical, and lay thier eggs in warm blooded animals. Don't bother hanging on to them unless you want a colony of house flies. Parasitic fly larvae don't usually kill thier host either. They hatch from the host as adult flies and a 4.5 to 5.5 month incubation period is rediculous.
House flies. Plain and simple.

Galadriel, did you even bother to read my post?

JennS said:
However, I just broke out my reptile books. Dr. Mader's Reptile Medicine and Surgery lists two genera of flies: _Calliphorid_ (blowflies) and _Cuterebra_ (bot flies). If the snake had a wound the blowflies could have gotten to it.

From everything I've read, maggots are almost impossible to identify past the family level. You'd need pictures of the spiracles (which aren't even visible in those pics) to even identify them that far. Myasis is not officially out as of yet.

A picture idenfication with a common name (I'm assuming by the common name of housefly you're referring to Musca domestica) does nothing to identify these bugs, especialy without pictures of the spiracles.

However, those maggots seem to be both shorter and fatter than those of M. domestica and resemble those of tachnid flies to me.

As I said...ID to family is possible with spiracles and pictures of maggots do nothing as all maggots are almost identical. They could be blowflies, they could be houseflies. No way to know without pics of the adults.

As for botflies not killing their hosts, deaths from secondary infections caused by myasis are quite common among cattle and horses.

Also in the book Parasite Rex, Carl Zimmer detailed a death of a young boy that was caused directly by a botfly maggot. There is photographic evidence of a rather large maggot lodged in the boy's brain to back this up, too.

bugmankeith · Aug 17, 2006

Did you see the maggots moving under the snakes skin? Was the snake ever taken to a vet, and did it ever have any open cuts?

Wherever you got if from, the snake may have had an open sore, or was taken from the wild while it was injured, thus if it had an open sore in the wild, fly larvae could have gotten inside before it was captured, and before you purchased it.

Did the snake open up like that from the maggots, or did you dissect it?
Sorry to hear the snake died.

tripleG · Aug 17, 2006

The snake opened up like that from the maggots I did not disect it. I didn't see or feel any maggots wriggling beneath the skin when holding the specimen. I'm not certain of anything regarding the pet store i purchased it from now but the person who sold it to me assured me it was captive bred but there's no way to be certain. It seems unlikey someone would import a clutch of wild snakes as infants all at once. It was part of a larger group and i'm worried others may experience this problem b/c they were all being kept in one tank at the store as hatchlings. If it indeed contracted them from the wild, that would mean the gestation period would have to be over five months. As I said I bought it in April and it had no open sores or anything so it would have to have healed already. If they imported it must've been in Mar/early Apr. Could it take that long for this to happen? Nice to know ppl are compassionate about these animals thanks a lot ppl. I'll post pics of the adult flies once I grow them so that you can analyze them, hopefully with success.

Should i be worried about larvae affecting me/my friends from exposure, perhaps from a stool or holding the snake?

Mushroom Spore · Aug 17, 2006

tripleG said:
assured me it was captive bred but there's no way to be certain. It seems unlikey someone would import a clutch of wild snakes as infants all at once.

This happens all the time. Presumably the "harvesters" know where the nests are. And nothing is to say that those snakes were related, possibly stores are sent all collected babies while adults go somewhere else? I don't know, but it's possible.

Barbedwirecat · Aug 18, 2006

tripleG said:
or is it possible they were already inside it when i purchased the snake and reamined dormant b/c i'm not sure of the conditions it was under before then?

Thats what I'm thinkin. Do you know what the breeder/dealer fed them for 100% sure?

Ick i don't think cuterebra could last that long without you knowing about it....but i guess it is possible. I'm thumbing through my book of vet medicine.....

OK....Evil Cheshire is very right. Unless you are able to take a pic of the sphericles, its is VERY hard to identify the species, however yes its reminds me VERY much of cuterbra larva.
Also a snippet from this book in my lap:

"The calliphorid flesh flies(blow flies) will often deposit eggs on terrestrial chelonians (turtles) both in the wild and in captivity. The eggs may be deposited in wound sites such as produced by ticks. The developing larva may produce loacal or diffuse subcutanious swellings. These larva migrate through subcutanious tissue causeing fistulous tracts."
-Reptile Medicine and Surgery, MADER.

Lol I just realized this is the same book you mentioned as well.

consider how thin the subcutanious tissue is on snakes. It might be possible these larva just kept on going deeper because thats what their bodies needed.

Botflies:
http://botfly.quiik.com/index.html

BlowFlies:
http://www.deathonline.net/decomposition/corpse_fauna/flies/blowfly_intro.htm

I REALLY am thinking Botfly because of hand on experiance, but I need more pics like Evil Cheshire saids.

Stylopidae · Aug 18, 2006

bugmankeith said:
Did the snake open up like that from the maggots, or did you dissect it?
Sorry to hear the snake died.

The more I read, the more these sound like tachnid flies...

...only one problem, though. Those only parasitize bugs (and yes, they kill them).

I lost an entire colony of narceus americanus last year to tachnid flies and they looked like that snake...if you move them, they tend to bust out of the animal.

Boy, was the smell ungodly. No matter how many times I washed the film canisters I transfered the dead millis to, the smell never even showed any signs of going away.

:? :? :?

Galadriel · Aug 18, 2006

Ok, this thread is becoming a joke. I gave my opinion based on my formal education and personal experience. I'm not some 19 year old kid running a few things on google to try to appear more intelligent, and I'm CERTAINLY not here to get into a pissing contest with one.
House fly maggots can reach up to an inch, and, if you look at their size compared to the newspaper type and NOT the snake, they are well within normal range. Tropical parasiric fly larvae don't live in Canada, and a wild caught specimine wouldn't be carrying said maggots for several months. The life cycle isn't that long. Read tripleG's posts again. The information is all there. Then find a cold weather parasitic fly that uses cold blooded animals as hosts and kills the host while they are still in the young larval stage. Why is it SO hard to believe those nasty little critters are just plain old, decaying flesh eating fly larvae? Not everything has to be dramatic. And, by the way. tachinid flies strictly use insects and are only at pupal stage for 1-2 weeks. Couldn't be the cause of a ball python not eating for several months, even if they DID infest reptiles.
So yes, TripleG...raise them up to adulthood, take and post some photos. It will only take afew days and will end this debate.

Latha math an drasda

Galadriel

Barbedwirecat · Aug 18, 2006

Galadriel, I'm sorry if I offended you somehow. I was only quoting what I have been taught in my 5+ years exotic vet tech experiance. I used to sit down at lunch at the vet and read whole books on parasites. I meant only to offer some support on roughly exactly what it could be. I've even called my exotic vet, she supports a few theories as well. I didn't go based on the newsprint because as we all know newsprint can be ALL different sizes and typesets. I understand you know what your talking about, but you still cannot be 100% positive of the identification either unless you were to physically see the sphericals or the adult. Or a really high res picture. I have found maggots on animals that are all different sizes, and I have found cuterebra on animals of all different sizes. Found and extracted from wound sockets 5" in diameter. No one here was trying to get into a pissing contsest with anyone, we just wanted to offer our knowlege.
I copied what I had word for word out of the medical reptile textbook I had. I googled (or yahooed) some photos for reference to show what the book showed. I not sure why you got so defensive when we are all only trying to help here and even you cannot be 100% certain unless you have better pictures and a fully developed adult.

"If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them."
Isaac Asimov

tapadh leibh

-Lauren

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