I need help with my dubia colony

gothra · Dec 1, 2006

Hello everyone,

I have a problem with my dubia colony and need advice. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I ain't getting many babies. I clean their bin once every 3 months and only collect the babies/nymphs then. The most recent "harvest", I only got 264 babies from 40 females in 3 months (yes, I counted; because there are so few of them)! I do not open their lid at all other than putting food in once everyday; so I'm definately not disturbing them too much. I also have a discoid colony right next to the dubias with same setting and everything, and they're producing like MAD!

When I transfer the adult females during cleaning, I noticed that they're nice and plumped, looks like they do have an eggcase in them. Another thing that I noticed was, the 264 that I collected were mostly babies, 5mm-1cm in length. I guess in 3 months time, some nymphs should've grown bigger than that; but I found none of those. Any chance that the adults are eating all the youngs?

Here is my setting: I have a dish of plain dog food (grounded to powder), a dish a cereal mix, and a piece of fresh fruit in there at all times. I also offer white sandwich bread several times a week. I have a heating mat underneath the bin, set to 95F. The discoids have exactly the same setting. Room temperature is in the 70s, relative humidity is 50-70%.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Dom · Dec 1, 2006

My dubias haven't produced as I would expect either. It sounds like mine were producing at the same rate as yours.
One thing I've read several times is that after they are cleaned out they will essentially stop producing babies for a few weeks. With only 40 females in the tub I would probably not clean them quite as often (just do spot cleaning of fruit/veg bits). The babies will eat quite a bit of the adults feces. Apparently the feces contain beneficial bacteria and nutrients for the small nymphs. Maybe the reason you are only finding small ones when you clean them out is because they stopped breeding when you cleaned them out and took a month to get back in gear. Also they seem to grow pretty slowly when young.
Perhaps don't open the lid everyday. Just try and figure out what they'll need for several days and leave them alone.
As for the diet I'm not sure that the white bread is really adding much to the diet and I would not include it. What type of fruit are you using? I find apples and carrots work best for me, some people also like potatoes.
Sounds like you're doing everything right though.

gothra · Dec 1, 2006

I offer mostly carrots, apples, pears and oranges. They seem to like the white bread too, whenever I put a fresh slice in, the adults would come out right away to eat it. One more question, if the females are already carrying an egg in them, and I did the cleaning, wouldn't they still give birth to those? I didn't find any dropped eggcase yesterday when I did the cleaning. I'll wait longer this time before I clean out their bin again, I hope they can do better.

p.s. I only have 20 discoids females, I think they produced 500+ in 1.5 months!

Dom · Dec 1, 2006

Just because they like the white bread doesn't mean they should be eating it

. Just like if you gave kids a choice between a plate of cookies or a healthy meal, they'll always take the cookies. White bread is pretty much devoid of nutrients. If you want strong healthy nymphs and good quality feeders for your animals you have to feed them good quality, nutrient dense foods.
I never find aborted egg-cases either but I know they essentially stop producing young after a cleaning. I guess they can hold the young and deliver them when they feel the time is right.
I'm finding lateralis work better for small inverts and lizards and they breed WAY faster.

Stylopidae · Dec 1, 2006

It sounds like you're cleaning their bin too much. I'd clean it when you have 2 inches of substrate (frass) or so. This means maybe once per year, maybe a bit less.

I started a lobster colony to tide me over until I could procure discoids and dubias use those exclusively. Dubias seem to grow quite slowly and I don't have any adults so I can't make any comments on reproduction rates.

I am, however very pleased with my discoid growth. In one month I went from no babies to 100 babies with 13 adults, an unknown mix of males and females.

I'm very happy with this, despite the fact there is still no visible sign of growth in my first (or second, depending on how you look at it) generation of discoids.

They reproduce fast and grow slow, from what I've seen.

My opinions may change as I get more experience with these species.

the_frog_kid · Dec 1, 2006

yes white bread is bad
its bleached flour
i have had over 10,000 born from 136 females and 18 males in about 9 monthes LMAO
i use my own high protein diet it has all that my roaches need
i love it ive been using it for almost 4 years now
its about 15 % protein and has NO phosporus
a moist substrate is a must
soil is the best for low matenince bot coco fiber is good to
there is a chance that they are eating each other but thats only if there is not enough protein or moisture
also most dog foods have very bad proservatives in them as well as a anti fungal and some small amounts of pesticides to get rid of worms and prevent them from colonizing the dog lol

thanx froggy

Talkenlate04 · Dec 2, 2006

Dom said:
Just because they like the white bread doesn't mean they should be eating it . Just like if you gave kids a choice between a plate of cookies or a healthy meal, they'll always take the cookies. White bread is pretty much devoid of nutrients. If you want strong healthy nymphs and good quality feeders for your animals you have to feed them good quality, nutrient dense foods.
I never find aborted egg-cases either but I know they essentially stop producing young after a cleaning. I guess they can hold the young and deliver them when they feel the time is right.
I'm finding lateralis work better for small inverts and lizards and they breed WAY faster.

This is very true..... If I put a piece of wheat bread in with a piece of white they always go for the wheat bread and ignore the white....... they actually will eat healthy all on their own. I did not know that bit about cleaning to much...... Ill have to remember that. I just did it cause it looked bad. Learn a new thing every day......and whats this about seperating the young? Do you just move them to another container and feed and rear them seperate from the active adults?

Dom · Dec 2, 2006

talkenlate04 said:
......and whats this about seperating the young? Do you just move them to another container and feed and rear them seperate from the active adults?

Yes I would leave them with the adults. If you are going to separate them put some of the adults frass (feces) in their tank to feed on (along with regular food items). Apparently the feces is very beneficial to the young nymphs. I recently seperated some nymphs out and I think they eat more frass than regular food when they are young.
I don't use any substrate with my dubias and they do just fine. They are never on the ground anyway except to feed. Once there is some frass on the bottom it's just like substrate.

the_frog_kid · Dec 2, 2006

well its not like a substrate and you just said yours wornt producing right
i hate to say this but people that dont use substrate are just lazy
i clean my tank out evey 1 to 2 monthes and i have the adults in a ten gallon
i put the babies in a 55 gallon rubbermaid

thanx froggy

Talkenlate04 · Dec 2, 2006

the_frog_kid said:
well its not like a substrate and you just said yours wornt producing right
i hate to say this but people that dont use substrate are just lazy
i clean my tank out evey 1 to 2 monthes and i have the adults in a ten gallon
i put the babies in a 55 gallon rubbermaid

Mine are reproducing like mad and they have no substrate....... So I think you are mistaken.... it has nothing to do with being lazy its just a preference.

the_frog_kid · Dec 2, 2006

why is it a preference
it is because you are lazy
ie you have no substrate its easier
therefor you are lazy for not using the substrate and saving time
if you "dont" have the time for cleaning the tank with substrate you shouldnt have roaches or other pets at all
it is very clue since dubia do burrow and having no substrate on them meens they live in their frass
how would you like to live in your own fecal matter
i know i wouldnt
baby dubia do fine without the frass they do not even eat it here

thanx froggy

Takumaku · Dec 2, 2006

Let's not start a flame war please...

Your propositional logic is flawed in many ways.

it is because you are lazy ie you have no substrate its easier therefor you are lazy for not using the substrate and saving time

If one was truely lazy, wouldn't it be easier to have substrate. This would follow the mind frame of "set it and forget it."

But let's think for a second. What is the true purpose of substrate? Some say to help increase humidty. Others state to reduce stress by way of given dubias something to burrow in.

So, if one provides a way to reduce the stress of the roaches and maintains the proper humidty, does one still need substrate? I don't think so...

Second faulicy.

if you "dont" have the time for cleaning the tank with substrate you shouldnt have roaches or other pets at all

Again, how does not having time for cleaning tanks [relate to the therefore] one should not have any pets at all? Ask yourself this, why must one clean a tank? ... to remove contamination, to reduce the bacteria/fungi load in the tank (i.e. to make it smell nice), to make it attractive to us (humans) again.

the_frog_kid said:
why is it a preference
how would you like to live in your own fecal matter

how would you like to eat your own child? I know I could not stand the thought of doing it, but there are other animals in the animal kingdom (think lions) who have no problem what so ever dining on their kids.

gothra · Dec 2, 2006

talkenlate04 said:
This is very true..... If I put a piece of wheat bread in with a piece of white they always go for the wheat bread and ignore the white....... they actually will eat healthy all on their own. I did not know that bit about cleaning to much...... Ill have to remember that. I just did it cause it looked bad. Learn a new thing every day......and whats this about seperating the young? Do you just move them to another container and feed and rear them seperate from the active adults?

Yes, when I do the cleaning, I'll remove all the young ones to another container and rear them there. I need to pick out the right sized ones for feeding to my geckos, so I thought it should be better to not that in the adult's bin every night (less disturbance).

So...white bread is not good? I'm just putting some bread in there for "extras"; they do have a dish of puppy food (about 30% protein) and a separate dish of grains and seeds in there with them all time. No problem, I can just cut the bread part out (what about wholemeal bread or other types of bread?).

What's up with this part:

also most dog foods have very bad proservatives in them as well as a anti fungal and some small amounts of pesticides to get rid of worms and prevent them from colonizing the dog lol

How do I know if the puppy food that I'm using is bad? Is cat/kitty food better?

gothra · Dec 2, 2006

What about humidity? I had mites before when the humidity is high; so I'm keeping the bins VERY well ventilated now. Is ~50% RH ok? Winter is coming and I know its going to get much dryer soon.

brandi · Dec 2, 2006

in response to the kibble dog/ cat food questions.... Please do some homework or check these links before feeding any or this stuff to your pets, or your pets feeders.

**** warning: not for the weak of stomach****

http://www.preciouspets.org/truth.htm
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/jesse.htm
http://www.5stardog.com/dog-food.asp
http://www.api4animals.org/facts.php?p=359&more=1

the_frog_kid · Dec 3, 2006

i must admit i didnt read all those links brandi but most of that is a load
they are just saying that to sell products made with "good" meat
i have seen how cat and dog food is made and it is fine
no rancid grains of brains (lol brians that is illegal anyways)
kitten food is the best if you dont want to buy specific roach food
its almost the same price
i make my own roach diet so i cant say what i put in

thanx froggy

gothra · Dec 3, 2006

brandi said:
in response to the kibble dog/ cat food questions.... Please do some homework or check these links before feeding any or this stuff to your pets, or your pets feeders.

Thanks for the links, Brandi. I need to state that I didn't just get the cheapest type of dog food to feed to my roaches. Although I do not own any furry friends, I did spent quite some time in the pet shop to read up the labels on the different brands of dog food, and chose the one that I thought was best.

I need help with my dubia colony

gothra

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Dom

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gothra

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Dom

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Stylopidae

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the_frog_kid

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Talkenlate04

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Dom

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the_frog_kid

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Talkenlate04

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the_frog_kid

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Takumaku

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gothra

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gothra

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brandi

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the_frog_kid

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gothra

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