Genus Phoneutria - Basics about captive care and a brief look into the different species

[Bjoern Elksnat]

Yeah i think it's the nigriventer, you see the fera on sale a lot here in europe but i've not yet seen the nigriventer

Hi mate,

here it is:

pairing



after pairing



final result^^ (7th molt)



LG Björni

[Scorpendra]

Could we see some of the setups you made for them? Do they have any kind of special locks or seals?

[Bjoern Elksnat]

Hi mate,

pictures I make later, no problem.

I use only guilloutine terrariums with no safety methods - not neccessary... they don`t lift em up.

LG Björni

[EXOPET]

I have only read the first page and have no experience in keeping Phoneutria (so I'm opening myself up to derision here)

Does anyone keep them with high ventilation like Southeast Asian species require. for example 1/2 the back wall stainless steel .8mm mesh?

some South American mantids require conditions like these and I was wondering if the same could be applied to Phoneutria?

I look forward to your comments,
Paul

[Torben]

Nice article, I like the way you're bringing it.
Iam still waiting on my delivery, this week I will have some Fera's and Pertyi from the Phoneutria genus. Also heard about the many character differences between subspecies. What about the Phoneutria pertyi ? I did not found a lot about their lifestyle.

About the speed, I agree with a senctence like ( they make teleporting a true story ) this is something I'd recognize with the P.keyserlingi I had a Female about the 4 inch within a eyewink its at the other side of the glas.
It doesn't matter how sharp your eyes are, or how alert you could be its just something you won't see the slightest movement of it.

But again, I nice document,

regards,
Torben

[ctenid]

Personally, I find it reprehensible that Phoneutria has now become a rock star spider and thus, has been subjected to being sold as a "pet" which is tantamount to when decadent billionaire oligarchs or royal hedonists purchased Bengal tigers, white sharks, Kodiak bears, wolves and venomous snakes. Whats the point? Unless you are a legitimate scientific researcher, taxonomist or possibly a scientific illustrator like myself, there is no point in keeping magnificent species like Phoneutria captive or any other dangerous spider for the simple sake and adrenalin rush of gawking at your prized "Beast" who can inflict a neurotoxic bite.
As an illustrator, way back in the early 80s, I was given a large Ctenid from the Natural History Museum (invertebrate zoology dept) to draw because we weren't sure what species it was. Never the less, it was very large and creepy and while I rode back on the DC metro to my house with the spider in a plastic container, I ignorantly tapped on the lid which provoked a sudden, huge eruption from the spider, literally knocking the lid off but by sheer instinct, I had the lid in hand and closed it before it could escape. I learned in about one second how POWERFUL these large vagrants are. Later on, it turned out to be P. nigriventer which back then, I was not yet familiar with but soon found out it was extremely venomous. That spider could have escaped, bitten me and crawled loose on the metro - now that would have been a true horror movie in the making.
Since that event 30 years ago, I have studied Phoneutria and many other Ctenids along with other venomous spiders and I must declare that its unfortunate that these incredible arthropods are being captured for pets and worse, breeding. LETS LEAVE THEM ALONE, HUMANS HAVE ALREADY DECIMATED OUR ENVIRONMENT AND DIRECTLY CAUSED THE EXTINCTION OF UNCOUNTABLE SPECIES. Some day, Homo sapiens just might end up as a "pet" for some other, far more advanced species and that is a day you won't want to experience:-)

[Ciphor]

Personally, I find it reprehensible that Phoneutria has now become a rock star spider and thus, has been subjected to being sold as a "pet" which is tantamount to when decadent billionaire oligarchs or royal hedonists purchased Bengal tigers, white sharks, Kodiak bears, wolves and venomous snakes. Whats the point? Unless you are a legitimate scientific researcher, taxonomist or possibly a scientific illustrator like myself, there is no point in keeping magnificent species like Phoneutria captive or any other dangerous spider for the simple sake and adrenalin rush of gawking at your prized "Beast" who can inflict a neurotoxic bite.
As an illustrator, way back in the early 80s, I was given a large Ctenid from the Natural History Museum (invertebrate zoology dept) to draw because we weren't sure what species it was. Never the less, it was very large and creepy and while I rode back on the DC metro to my house with the spider in a plastic container, I ignorantly tapped on the lid which provoked a sudden, huge eruption from the spider, literally knocking the lid off but by sheer instinct, I had the lid in hand and closed it before it could escape. I learned in about one second how POWERFUL these large vagrants are. Later on, it turned out to be P. nigriventer which back then, I was not yet familiar with but soon found out it was extremely venomous. That spider could have escaped, bitten me and crawled loose on the metro - now that would have been a true horror movie in the making.
Since that event 30 years ago, I have studied Phoneutria and many other Ctenids along with other venomous spiders and I must declare that its unfortunate that these incredible arthropods are being captured for pets and worse, breeding. LETS LEAVE THEM ALONE, HUMANS HAVE ALREADY DECIMATED OUR ENVIRONMENT AND DIRECTLY CAUSED THE EXTINCTION OF UNCOUNTABLE SPECIES. Some day, Homo sapiens just might end up as a "pet" for some other, far more advanced species and that is a day you won't want to experience:-)

Phoneutria sp. are endangered or common, I forgot?

I guess comparing Bengal Tigers to Wandering spiders makes sense... They are a lot alike after all.

Can we judge you now? Can you show us how to live life how you think it should be lived? I was there after all, when the whole world declared you right, and your opinions supreme. Or maybe different people do things different, right, wrong... all human, all make mistakes, in hindsight maybe you will see your mistake in this post.

I'm curious, who are these hobbyists harming? Spiders are not going extinct because 10 people on this planet own a couple, how do you see any logic in eluding to that? Your a man of science, can you honestly sit back and think about that statement and feel good about it? Spiders go extinct because their habitats are being destroyed for homes, resources, development, etc. not because of the hobby trade. Drawing a line between human resource development and a very limited hobby collection is, frankly absurd. There is no coalition.

Ctenid you're smart guy, no question there, very articulate, but you seem to lack some understanding. Unless you can provide proof that people taking any species of spider as a pet has hurt that spiders population, such as in the case of Bengal tigers, I really don't think your view has a leg to stand on, and when considering that, your trying to shove your opinion down others throats. People wont respond well with that, so given that, is your goal to cause mischief?

[ctenid]

Well, its no offense to anyone, or none intended, and yes it does sound judgmental, because what isn't "judgmental" to a point? Every time anyone makes a comment, doesn't it include, often, more of a subjective perspective than an objective one? Given that human beings are predominantly "subjective" creatures, its just another comment based on my values and perspectives which, in a free country, should be tolerated. I am not disparaging the individual who is keeping his Phoneutria as being pathological, nefarious or wrong, I am just using a broad category of what could be considered "exotic" pets as deviating from the norm in terms of why are they always dangerous? Would a Phoneutria be such a desirable pet if its venomous bite was harmless? How can anyone deny that the thrill deals with the fact the spider could potentially inflict a horrible bite sending the pet keeper into a fit of excruciating agony as the serotonin pumps in as part of its neurotoxic cocktaile.
Of course, even a domestic dog or cat can be dangerous if mishandled but by inviting danger on a daily basis, keeping animals with a potent neurotoxin is more or less, in my opinion (for what its worth) a form of thrill seeking "not that there is anything wrong with that" quoting Seinfeld but my concern is that yes, how do we know the population levels of Phoneutria's various sub species? Has anyone researched this? Its bad enough that some pharmaceutical companies might be harvesting their venom in order to isolate the enzyme that causes priapism and is of course, going to be used for male "enhancement" erection drugs.
I just find that really distasteful as well, because, what if they exponentially increase the procurement of these spiders for male erection pharmaceuticals? What a waste to think that their precious venom is used for bedroom acrobatics when it would at least be slightly more justifiable if spider venom could be used for anti-cancer or diabetic therapies. Anyway, getting off track here but hey, its just an opinion, nothing to go into an aggressive spider display over:-)
If people get a charge out of confining extremely venomous spiders for the sheer shock and awe value, then go knock yourself out. I am only asking that these spider pet enthusiasts, keep aware of whether or not their populations are ever in question, by asking arachnologists who might keep those statistics. Its not that much to ask is it?

[Ciphor]

Well, its no offense to anyone, or none intended, and yes it does sound judgmental, because what isn't "judgmental" to a point? Every time anyone makes a comment, doesn't it include, often, more of a subjective perspective than an objective one? Given that human beings are predominantly "subjective" creatures, its just another comment based on my values and perspectives which, in a free country, should be tolerated. I am not disparaging the individual who is keeping his Phoneutria as being pathological, nefarious or wrong, I am just using a broad category of what could be considered "exotic" pets as deviating from the norm in terms of why are they always dangerous? Would a Phoneutria be such a desirable pet if its venomous bite was harmless? How can anyone deny that the thrill deals with the fact the spider could potentially inflict a horrible bite sending the pet keeper into a fit of excruciating agony as the serotonin pumps in as part of its neurotoxic cocktaile.
Of course, even a domestic dog or cat can be dangerous if mishandled but by inviting danger on a daily basis, keeping animals with a potent neurotoxin is more or less, in my opinion (for what its worth) a form of thrill seeking "not that there is anything wrong with that" quoting Seinfeld but my concern is that yes, how do we know the population levels of Phoneutria's various sub species? Has anyone researched this? Its bad enough that some pharmaceutical companies might be harvesting their venom in order to isolate the enzyme that causes priapism and is of course, going to be used for male "enhancement" erection drugs.
I just find that really distasteful as well, because, what if they exponentially increase the procurement of these spiders for male erection pharmaceuticals? What a waste to think that their precious venom is used for bedroom acrobatics when it would at least be slightly more justifiable if spider venom could be used for anti-cancer or diabetic therapies. Anyway, getting off track here but hey, its just an opinion, nothing to go into an aggressive spider display over:-)
If people get a charge out of confining extremely venomous spiders for the sheer shock and awe value, then go knock yourself out. I am only asking that these spider pet enthusiasts, keep aware of whether or not their populations are ever in question, by asking arachnologists who might keep those statistics. Its not that much to ask is it?

I think we can go a step further then just an opinion here, you are painting a picture of these hobbyists as insensitive careless thrill seekers, and you are doing it armed with nothing short of outlandish assumptions.

You assume we do not care about the protection of their natural habitat, we definitely do, I take offense to you eluding that we do not. Offending someone is perception, not intent. Whether you intended to or not, just like sexual harassment, it is my perception that deems it offensive.

You assume we would not keep them as pets if they were not in possession of medically significant venom, yet you completely ignore the fact this hobby keeps far more none dangerous spiders. Rose hair tarantulas, very common as pets, not the least bit dangerous. How do you explain me keeping P. tepidariorum as pets? Boring, brown, common totally harmless spiders. Where is my thrill seeking there? The most beautiful creatures in this world are unfortunately the deadliest. It is the beauty we seek, not the danger. If I only had black widows, brown recluse, wandering spiders & sand spiders as pets, then yes. I too would conclude I'm a thrill seeker. But calling someone a thrill seeker for having 40 harmless spiders and 1 dangerous one seems... well, I dont think I need to use words to describe how irrational that is.

You forgot we find these creatures beautiful, and Phoneutria sp. are exceptionally beautiful, as well as large, another desired quality for a spider pet. I am 100% confident that if these spiders were not medically significant, they would be FAR more common in pet trade.

As for companies farming spiders, that hardly sounds like it has anything to do with our hobby.

One last friendly piece of advice, to someone on a forum, ALL CAPS IS PERCEIVED AS YELLING AND SCREAMING, and typically will get you a, very engaged response from someone. I agree, no need to be crazy. My apologies for taking your comments as an attack on the people posting on this thread, if that was not your intent.

[garryb]

sorry i had to just add to ciphor....

i may even be wrong so by doing so, so if i am.... sorry. but i have to add to the comment about bueaty an size ect ect. we are all from difrant parts of the world here. so what a hobo spider,brown widow,recluse , black widow ectect are to us who live in the pnw are common an may not spark much intrest to those of us who see them all the time in our front yard.so the thought of having something that is outa the norm or something weve never seen before is more intriging but the same goes for people who live in brazil who probably hate the phoneutria and kill it any chance they get due to the fact it is found in areas were kids play, they shop ,and in homes. but would love to own a black widow.

hell in a way you could look at it as us hobbiest are doing the spider a favore were as in brazil it would be most likly killed but saved an cared for here in the u.s .


anyways overall i found the last few posts quite amusing......and i still wish i could find a way to get one of these facinating spiders.

[Rawr]

Hello, i have a question about feeding
Got some P.fera today seems like L1-2, size is like 3-5mm. Any suggestions how and with what should i feed these?

[Ciphor]

Hello, i have a question about feeding
Got some P.fera today seems like L1-2, size is like 3-5mm. Any suggestions how and with what should i feed these?

Pretty sure crickets will be fine.