floridas new python season!

[cbeard]

Originally Posted by pouchedrat

I'm still waiting for someone to send me all the pouched rats in the keys... I can easily place 20, 30+ in homes immediately.

But supposedly they've already eradicated them... *sigh*.

Burmese pythons are just nuts when it comes to size... I wonder if there's retics out there as well? Around here in MD, I've seen green anaconda babies for sale in LPS's.

Yes, as far as I have heard, all 5 of the top Constrictors have been found in Florida. As far as I know, burmese pythons are the only species that has successfully bred in the wild there.

A majority of these large snakes increased in popularity recently due to the fact there was not a lot of people innitially interested in them and the price for them was VERY low. When people purchased them for breeding, they would have too many neonates to reasonably sell.

Even after years and years of breeding both 'python regius' and 'python molurus bivittatus', the ALBINO ball python STILL sells for $500-$800. The burmese has sold for under $200 for the last three years, now as low as $75.

LPS type stores buy these up because they are rediculously cheap to buy wholesale, and some stupid kids gonna see 'ANACONDA $129.99' and buy it up in a second! Anacondas just sound cooler than 'Red Ratsnake'.

[pitbulllady]

Originally Posted by cbeard

Animals introduced to an environment that the animal does not naturally live in is an instant environmental threat and concern. Saying you do not know what kind of impact a potential 15 foot snake has on an ecosystem is a joke. Although it is true Florida's ecosystem is already thickly concentrated with a huge number of invasive species, that does not give room for one more, especially 15 foot one.

Although I get a lot of criticism for this, this is the exact reason I believe people should need permits to keep and breed these animals. There are way too many irresponsible reptile owners.

It's not the size of the animal that counts, but its feeding habits, its adaptability to the new environment, its reproductive capacity and even its physical means of locomotion, since one of the most destructive aspects of non-native hoofed stock is the accelatetion of erosion due to the damage to the ground from their feet. The statement of not knowing the exact impact of these snakes on the Everglades came directly from a FWC biologist, by the way, who has seen how Florida's own native animals have actually adapted to and learned to cope with many of their new neighbors. Many of the most-asinine claims about the Burmese Pythons have come NOT from biologists, but from environmental groups who have no first-hand knowledge of reptiles of ANY kind whatsoever, including the claims that female Burms lay over 100 eggs at a time(just ask any Burm breeder how many times they've seen THAT happen, in captive situations where fertility is manipulated to be at its maximum), and that their range will expand due to global warming and that these snakes can easily survive sub-freezing temperatures as it is. Having kept Burms, I can say from first-hand experience that there are few snakes which are more prone to respiratory infections from becoming chilled than a Burmese Python. While Burms are a subspecies of Indian Python, they occupy a very different type of environment and are different to the point that the Indian Python is a CITES-protected species which is not allowed to be traded commercially without Federal permits, while the Burmese is not included in CITES regulations.

Yes, there are irresponsible reptile owners-and irresponsible dog owners, and irresponsible cat owner-and there are far more of the latter two. Feral cats especially have had a significant impact on native birds and other small animals, not to mention the other problems they cause(and I love cats, too, almost as much as snakes), and their range covers most of North America, in every conceivable environment. Do we impose statewide and Federal crackdowns on those animals, too, along with requiring permits to own a cat or dog(any breed) or would outright bans on cats and dogs solve the problem of feral animals of those species? It's already getting to the point where you have to have a friggin' permit and submit to random government intrusion on your property for inspections just to own a goldfish nowadays in some places as it is. At this point it is not going to matter a bit of difference to the already-existing populations of Burms in the 'Glades if a total ban IS enacted, since the snakes are alreay established. Like I said, it's like closing the barn door after the horses have run away-a pointless, useless thing to do.

pitbulllady

[cbeard]

Originally Posted by pitbulllady

It's not the size of the animal that counts, but its feeding habits, its adaptability to the new environment, its reproductive capacity and even its physical means of locomotion, since one of the most destructive aspects of non-native hoofed stock is the accelatetion of erosion due to the damage to the ground from their feet. The statement of not knowing the exact impact of these snakes on the Everglades came directly from a FWC biologist, by the way, who has seen how Florida's own native animals have actually adapted to and learned to cope with many of their new neighbors. Many of the most-asinine claims about the Burmese Pythons have come NOT from biologists, but from environmental groups who have no first-hand knowledge of reptiles of ANY kind whatsoever, including the claims that female Burms lay over 100 eggs at a time(just ask any Burm breeder how many times they've seen THAT happen, in captive situations where fertility is manipulated to be at its maximum), and that their range will expand due to global warming and that these snakes can easily survive sub-freezing temperatures as it is. Having kept Burms, I can say from first-hand experience that there are few snakes which are more prone to respiratory infections from becoming chilled than a Burmese Python. While Burms are a subspecies of Indian Python, they occupy a very different type of environment and are different to the point that the Indian Python is a CITES-protected species which is not allowed to be traded commercially without Federal permits, while the Burmese is not included in CITES regulations.

Yes, there are irresponsible reptile owners-and irresponsible dog owners, and irresponsible cat owner-and there are far more of the latter two. Feral cats especially have had a significant impact on native birds and other small animals, not to mention the other problems they cause(and I love cats, too, almost as much as snakes), and their range covers most of North America, in every conceivable environment. Do we impose statewide and Federal crackdowns on those animals, too, along with requiring permits to own a cat or dog(any breed) or would outright bans on cats and dogs solve the problem of feral animals of those species? It's already getting to the point where you have to have a friggin' permit and submit to random government intrusion on your property for inspections just to own a goldfish nowadays in some places as it is. At this point it is not going to matter a bit of difference to the already-existing populations of Burms in the 'Glades if a total ban IS enacted, since the snakes are alreay established. Like I said, it's like closing the barn door after the horses have run away-a pointless, useless thing to do.

pitbulllady

Pitbull lady, you're absolutely right. The unfortunate part is that there are herpers that are willing to release their pets. Burmese are not top on the lsit of threatening animals that were introduced, but they ARE on that list, thats what I was saying. I have no 'degree' yet, but I am in school for a major in environmental science, minoring in GIS and conservation. I have kept reptiles as a hobby and on a professional level for a very long time, I still have to stand my ground on the fact that if people cannot responsibly keep them, they need to be banned altogether in an effort to protect the established wildlife. That SUCKS, but some people apparently suck, lol. The only way it would make sense for a ban is if we were to completely eradicate the population loose in Florida, and I don't see that happening. Especially if the numbers are as high as they claim them to be.

As someone that loves reptiles, and all animals in general for that matter, I would rather be unable to keep them, than be a part of keeping them and having my ownership negatively affect the species.

Chris

[Kris-wIth-a-K]

I'd worry about the Alligators and Moccasins before anything.. You will be dodging them left and right even before you saw 1 python.. Literally..It's the freakin everglades..

[dtknow]

I hear it would be bowhunting. Now bowhunting pythons does not sound like something that requires special skill...other n actually finding the snake(ok sonny, we got one. Now get out, stand right there, and shoot it right in da head...haha)

I'd be all for exterminating the feral cats and hogs too.(now, bowhunting those would require skill) Actually, feral cats and hogs are much more serious problem than the snakes.

[rasputin]

Originally Posted by aracnophiliac

Well if we are going to be doing this with all unwanted species I vote we open a hunting season (with special permits of course) To shoot Ski Bums and tree planters..Anyone who Hygenie Is "natural"

AMEN TO THAT!!!

Originally Posted by Exo

I wonder what Burms taste like? A big snake like that might be a worthwhile game animal if they taste good. They arn't native so I have no problem hunting them.

I bet it's a bit...gamy As much as I hate to admit it, I am actually a littel interested in knowing as well.

Originally Posted by dtknow

Its interesting that these snakes have gotten so much press(while the less interesting boa constrictor/iguana invasions have gone largely unnoticed). Their are a lot of invasive species that are much scarier and devastating(think plants and insects) than the burmese python thats for sure. That being said, considering it is a potential threat to a few sensitive species(Key deer, etc.) a control/extirmination program would be a good idea.

Too bad they can't do a controlled extermination of certain introduced insects...and houseflies, I hate houseflies with a fiery passion.

Originally Posted by cbeard

Animals introduced to an environment that the animal does not naturally live in is an instant environmental threat and concern. Saying you do not know what kind of impact a potential 15 foot snake has on an ecosystem is a joke. Although it is true Florida's ecosystem is already thickly concentrated with a huge number of invasive species, that does not give room for one more, especially 15 foot one.

Although I get a lot of criticism for this, this is the exact reason I believe people should need permits to keep and breed these animals. There are way too many irresponsible reptile owners.

People should have to get licenses to breed with each other and produce human spawn as well.

Originally Posted by cbeard

Yes, as far as I have heard, all 5 of the top Constrictors have been found in Florida. As far as I know, burmese pythons are the only species that has successfully bred in the wild there.

Seriously, what are the chances that a pair of introduced snakes ran into each other and managed to spawn? I would say if fate or destiny is true then that's what this qualifies as. I've never been able to get my head around this.

Originally Posted by Kris-wIth-a-K

I'd worry about the Alligators and Moccasins before anything.. You will be dodging them left and right even before you saw 1 python.. Literally..It's the freakin everglades..

Right? A python would be the least of my concerns.

One thing that gets me is "netting" the animal. Say, you come up on a full grown adult and you've got your typical fishing net - you'd be properly screwed.

I can't say I'm on one side of the fence or the other on this "hunting" matter yet but I will say that it has become a problem and has hurt the hobby. I think I would more support a plan to capture them and reintroduce them into their habitat of initial origin or zoo them but that's just an idea that obviously didn't hold water given what's going on down there currently.

[rasputin]

Gotta love the Dave & Tracy over at VPI: http://www.vpi.com/sites/vpi.com/fil...compressed.pdf

[pitbulllady]

That's a great article, written by people with a great deal of first-hand experience with this species and with this particular issue. It's scary that even folks here on AB, who should be here to learn more about animals, would rather believe some politician or other government employee than people like the Barkers, with decades of experience with these animals. There are way too many animal owners who buy into that AR way of thinking, and who believe that as long as it's not about the animals THEY keep, it's OK to pass laws that negatively affect everyone else. "It's OK to ban large constrictors; I own Corn Snakes". "Go ahead and ban Pit Bulls; I have a German Shepherd". "Pass MSN on cats and dogs; I breed Ball Pythons".

Keep right on drinking that Kool-Aid, folks, but your day is coming.

pitbulllady

[Tleilaxu]

Originally Posted by pitbulllady

That's a great article, written by people with a great deal of first-hand experience with this species and with this particular issue. It's scary that even folks here on AB, who should be here to learn more about animals, would rather believe some politician or other government employee than people like the Barkers, with decades of experience with these animals. There are way too many animal owners who buy into that AR way of thinking, and who believe that as long as it's not about the animals THEY keep, it's OK to pass laws that negatively affect everyone else. "It's OK to ban large constrictors; I own Corn Snakes". "Go ahead and ban Pit Bulls; I have a German Shepherd". "Pass MSN on cats and dogs; I breed Ball Pythons".

Keep right on drinking that Kool-Aid, folks, but your day is coming.

pitbulllady

Which is why I dont support any ban on animals, granted I dont think just anyone should be able to go out and get a pride of lions or something but if some one is dedicated and know both where to look and have the proper ability to keep such a large dangerous animal then I believe they should be allowed to do so as long as they dont put others indanger.

[Bigboy]

Originally Posted by BorisTheSpider

...just save a few from idiots with shotguns killing these " dangerous " snakes.

You seem to have a rather distorted view on hunters.

Pittbulllady, you are argueing something here that I don't think you understand much about. The topic is invasive species management. Not if these animals are misunderstood or not. You stated above that you never hear people talk about the damage feral hogs cause. Where are you pulling that from. People talk all the time about the damage feral pigs cause. Its common knowledge how destructive they are.
I like herps as much as the next person but we're talkin about an established population of giant constrictor from south east Asia here in Florida. It is an invasive species. Allow me to explain something to you about ecosystems. They develop the way they are over the course of millenia. You introduce a new species and you have created an entirely novel system that cannot possibly maintain itself in perpetuity any longer. There is no way around it. Florida is the biggest ecological mess in the States. Nothing short of an all out eradication program and harsh restrictions on exotics in the state will begin to solve the problems it has.
Ban all these exotics, maybe not. Enforce licensing programs, absolutely. But above all, if its not in a cage, if its not in someones home as a pet, it needs to be removed. Be that through lethal or non lethal methods.

[Mack&Cass]

I read that a ban on 9 species of boa constrictor, retics, burms, african rocks, and green and yellow anacondas was put on the entire country of the United States.

[mking]

For your reading enjoyment:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/hyb...ory?id=8615054

This article is a bit sensational...kind of reminiscent of a Sci-Fi channel movie. Even so, I don't like the idea of African rock pythons getting established in FL.

[Bigboy]

Originally Posted by pitbulllady

It's not the size of the animal that counts, but its feeding habits, its adaptability to the new environment, its reproductive capacity and even its physical means of locomotion, since one of the most destructive aspects of non-native hoofed stock is the accelatetion of erosion due to the damage to the ground from their feet. The statement of not knowing the exact impact of these snakes on the Everglades came directly from a FWC biologist, by the way, who has seen how Florida's own native animals have actually adapted to and learned to cope with many of their new neighbors. Many of the most-asinine claims about the Burmese Pythons have come NOT from biologists, but from environmental groups who have no first-hand knowledge of reptiles of ANY kind whatsoever, including the claims that female Burms lay over 100 eggs at a time(just ask any Burm breeder how many times they've seen THAT happen, in captive situations where fertility is manipulated to be at its maximum), and that their range will expand due to global warming and that these snakes can easily survive sub-freezing temperatures as it is. Having kept Burms, I can say from first-hand experience that there are few snakes which are more prone to respiratory infections from becoming chilled than a Burmese Python. While Burms are a subspecies of Indian Python, they occupy a very different type of environment and are different to the point that the Indian Python is a CITES-protected species which is not allowed to be traded commercially without Federal permits, while the Burmese is not included in CITES regulations.

Yes, there are irresponsible reptile owners-and irresponsible dog owners, and irresponsible cat owner-and there are far more of the latter two. Feral cats especially have had a significant impact on native birds and other small animals, not to mention the other problems they cause(and I love cats, too, almost as much as snakes), and their range covers most of North America, in every conceivable environment. Do we impose statewide and Federal crackdowns on those animals, too, along with requiring permits to own a cat or dog(any breed) or would outright bans on cats and dogs solve the problem of feral animals of those species? It's already getting to the point where you have to have a friggin' permit and submit to random government intrusion on your property for inspections just to own a goldfish nowadays in some places as it is. At this point it is not going to matter a bit of difference to the already-existing populations of Burms in the 'Glades if a total ban IS enacted, since the snakes are alreay established. Like I said, it's like closing the barn door after the horses have run away-a pointless, useless thing to do.

pitbulllady

You have effectively resolved my issues with your argument. Well written.