Mites.

Serious Sam

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
50
I have that problem with my female G rosea all i do is transfer her into a diferent cage and theroughly clean then dry her other cage to elimanate them you may want to try that even though they are harmless thay can become a problem if they are alowed to thrive and live on and establish a colony
 

skips

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
521
"This has been discussed in many threads in recent months, and NOBODY has suggested that all mites need animal hosts. I've posted here many times pointing out that not all mites that attach themselves to spiders are parasitic, either. There are many phoretic mites that merely attach themselves to spiders, beetles or other transport hosts purely as a means of traveling around."

Like I said, I'm not contradicting you. It was just that when that guy said he had mites in his feed you dismissed it like that was impossible, thus making it seem like the mites had to be parasitic. I just wanted to make a general point. Also, the australia story wasn't to say that you'd have to go to australia, just to provide a source that there are many species of non-animal parasitic mites.

"And any mite that does eat corn meal WILL NOT also attack tarantulas. And they will not get so crowded that they end up moving into the book lungs of the spider. There are some basic biological concepts involved here, and I'm dismayed that people seem so unaware of them."

I agree. Though you do seem to enjoy pointing out peoples biological knowledge inadequacies in a sometimes unhelpful tone.

"I honestly feel that at least half the false alarms posted here about mites are actually Collembola that the people posting did not recognize."

Fair enough


Maybe you can answer me a question then. I do have a bit of a mite problem and was planning taking my mites to the lab and using the camera microscope to take pictures for identification purposes. I've been told to use H. miles as a predatory mite control but I doubt that any one predatory mite could be a cure all for mites unless there is a common parasitic species on roaches that H. miles feed on. Otherwise, predatory mites are not non-specific predators and buying them would be pointless without knowing if they would eat my specific mites. Any comments?
 

Miss Bianca

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,145
I just wanted to add, that I would love some real information as mentioned, about mites as well as collembola.
(A sticky would be awesome, and yes I think Bill is well versed and
educated in the ways of these critters,
from previous reading I've done of his contributions here.)

I have seen so many images
(ex: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3421/3197563994_24291aa7df.jpg
or http://www.gwyddoniaeth.org.uk/graffeg-gwyddoniaeth/Adnoddau/darlith hefin/CollembolaT.jpg )
which look nothing like the tiny white critters we talk about here),
not to mention different discussions about how or why,
and so, it would really help.

OK- Obviously there are hundreds of different kinds but for 99% of users
on here to assume which kind form in our T enclosures,
and not ONE image in dozens of pages I googled look like little white things, :confused:
I mean clarification would be great.

and also, SERIOUS_SAM, unless the collembola you experienced were on forgotten cricket leftovers,
they really shouldn't be forming in the enclosure with a Rosea,
as you mentioned you had, which absolutely love a desert- dry home...

 

wedge07

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
612
Tortuga I think the only real way to tell the difference between most mites is under a microscope.
 

Bill S

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,418
I've been told to use H. miles as a predatory mite control but I doubt that any one predatory mite could be a cure all for mites unless there is a common parasitic species on roaches that H. miles feed on. Otherwise, predatory mites are not non-specific predators and buying them would be pointless without knowing if they would eat my specific mites. Any comments?
Predatory mites are less specific than parasitic mites. Picture them as miniature spiders - for the most part, anything they can overpower is potential food. But size will play a part, as will microhabitat choice and behavior. A predatory mite that prefers to live under rocks will probably not be a great help in a tarantula cage. And some predatory mites are large enough that they would probably overlook the parasitic mites you hope to eliminate. In fact, some would be big enough to get eaten by a tarantula, or could attack a sling. The biggest limiting factor, though, would probably be availability. If H. miles is commercially available and has the right size and behavior patterns, then that would be a good set of recommendations.

Tortuga I think the only real way to tell the difference between most mites is under a microscope.
Pretty much true - but a camera with a good lens can be a great help.

Just to add some color to this discussion, I've attached a couple pictures of local species of predatory mites. (My wife was the photographer.)





Not quite the "tiny white things" that get mistaken for mites so often.
 

upwith inverts!

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
405
OH! My turn to ID! Is that a velvet mite?
(sorry, don't care enough for mites to know the scientific name.)
 

Bill S

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,418
OH! My turn to ID! Is that a velvet mite?
(sorry, don't care enough for mites to know the scientific name.)
Yup. You got it. Two species of velvet mites, also known as trombidiid mites.

I've got a busy day in front of me - got some people coming out to the dojo this morning to practice kyudo, then heading down into the Huachuca Mountains in the afternoon to photograph social spiders. But I'll try in the next day or so to post more pictures of mites. For all the "cute fuzzy" of the velvet mites, there are some other predatory mites that would fit well in a sci fi movie. I'll also see if I can get my wife to photograph some Collembola for comparison.

Meanwhile, anyone want to guess what they are seeing in this picture?

 

skips

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
521


I have seen so many images
(ex: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3421/3197563994_24291aa7df.jpg
or http://www.gwyddoniaeth.org.uk/graffeg-gwyddoniaeth/Adnoddau/darlith hefin/CollembolaT.jpg )
which look nothing like the tiny white critters we talk about here),
not to mention different discussions about how or why,
and so, it would really help.

OK- Obviously there are hundreds of different kinds but for 99% of users
on here to assume which kind form in our T enclosures,
and not ONE image in dozens of pages I googled look like little white things, :confused:
I mean clarification would be great.
Hmmm...ok, then I concede that a good number of people here don't know what a mite looks like.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the species of parasitic mite that I've seen that could be an invertebrate pest really are very tiny white things. Under a microscope they are clearly translucent arachnids. Really, It shouldn't be hard to eye ball it and tell if it's collembola or a mite. You just wouldn't be able to tell the species of mite.

Bill, do you even think a microscope would be conclusive? In my experience with inverts that small you would need to dissect genitals or even to DNA testing.
 

Bill S

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,418
An MM sicariidae?(six eyed crab spider)
Olios fasciculata - giant crab spider - but with a face full of phoretic (not parasitic) mites. The thing to look for here is where the mites are attaching. In this case they have attached to smooth surfaces. Parasitic mites would have homed in on joints or places where their mouth parts could have penetrated. Phoretic mites attach merely as a means of "hitching a ride". A crab spider moves a lot faster than these little mites can, so using the spider as a means of dispersal helps distribute the mites to new territories.
 

Bill S

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,418
Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the species of parasitic mite that I've seen that could be an invertebrate pest really are very tiny white things.
Are you dealing with preserved specimens? I don't see many white parasitic mites. Seems to me that red, orange or brown are more common around here.

Bill, do you even think a microscope would be conclusive? In my experience with inverts that small you would need to dissect genitals or even to DNA testing.
If you are going to get serious about the taxonomy, yes. But I don't think it's really important to get accurate species identifications for the people on this board. They mostly want to know if the mites are from a group likely to be parasitic on tarantulas, and for that they might not need to get much further than family level.
 

Miss Bianca

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
1,145
Hmmm...ok, then I concede that a good number of people here don't know what a mite looks like.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the species of parasitic mite that I've seen that could be an invertebrate pest really are very tiny white things. Under a microscope they are clearly translucent arachnids. Really, It shouldn't be hard to eye ball it and tell if it's collembola or a mite. You just wouldn't be able to tell the species of mite.

Bill, do you even think a microscope would be conclusive? In my experience with inverts that small you would need to dissect genitals or even to DNA testing.

I'd have to agree.... sadly....

and Bill... this is turning into a duplicate of that thread a few weeks back is it not??? I mean the same pics and all.
:)
 

Bill S

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,418
Thanks for the link. Sounds like a very similar mite. In the case of the Olios in the picture - the spider was wild caught with the mites already on it. The picture was taken shortly after capture. As described in the message you referenced, the mites were phoretic larvae and dropped off within a day or so. The spider was released back where it came from, minus a faceful of mites. While in captivity it showed no discomfort or problems with the mites being present.
 

Bill S

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,418
and Bill... this is turning into a duplicate of that thread a few weeks back is it not??? I mean the same pics and all. :)
The pics have appeared before, and will probably appear again when relevant. The thread is, finally, going in a few new directions, although the theme is old and oft repeated. If the repetition bothers you - well, get used to it. I'd bet there will be more threads along similar lines in the near future. I will be very surprised if we don't see another Collembola population reported as a mite infestation within the next couple weeks.
 

skips

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
521
Are you dealing with preserved specimens? I don't see many white parasitic mites. Seems to me that red, orange or brown are more common around here.



If you are going to get serious about the taxonomy, yes. But I don't think it's really important to get accurate species identifications for the people on this board. They mostly want to know if the mites are from a group likely to be parasitic on tarantulas, and for that they might not need to get much further than family level.
Nope, I just had some last week on a lateralis, put them under a microscope just for kicks because they look cool. We've had them a few times in scorpion enclosures in our animal room on campus as well. All pretty much the same, though I assume the ones on the scorps on campus were from the crickets we fed. Ok, maybe they weren't necessarily parasitizing the scorpion. They were probably just hitching a ride.

I just made the taxonomy comment because someone made a comment about the only way to differentiate between them was under a microscope. I took that as identification at the species level, which would probably not be able to be done even with a scope.

As for a dichotomous key, if it can be done, it has, but i'm positive they'd be such subtle differences you wouldn't be able to use it anyway unless you were darn good. I doubt morphology would cut it though.
 

Bill S

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,418
Nope, I just had some last week on a lateralis, put them under a microscope just for kicks because they look cool. We've had them a few times in scorpion enclosures in our animal room on campus as well. All pretty much the same, though I assume the ones on the scorps on campus were from the crickets we fed. Ok, maybe they weren't necessarily parasitizing the scorpion. They were probably just hitching a ride.
We've found scorpions with parasitic mites attached. Might even have some pictures. I'll post them if I find them. And - looking through a few pics last night I did find some parasitic mites that were very pale, including one on a Triatoma that I'll post in a little while.

I just made the taxonomy comment because someone made a comment about the only way to differentiate between them was under a microscope. I took that as identification at the species level, which would probably not be able to be done even with a scope.
Understood. And agreed. Adding to the fun is the fact that probably half the mites out there have not been described. It a gigantic group of small to tiny animals that are difficult to work with.

As for a dichotomous key, if it can be done, it has, but i'm positive they'd be such subtle differences you wouldn't be able to use it anyway unless you were darn good. I doubt morphology would cut it though.
Morphology would cut it to the family level, which I think is what the poster was asking for. Would probably get to the genus level in many cases. That would probably be sufficient to determine probablitity of it being a parasite.
 

skips

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
521
Morphology would cut it to the family level, which I think is what the poster was asking for. Would probably get to the genus level in many cases. That would probably be sufficient to determine probablitity of it being a parasite.
True, I'm thinking family would do it for determining taxonomy for practicle purposes. I'm still thinking though even with a key and a microscope, no one here could differentiate down to that level. I have trouble using a key with small macroinvertebrates. I won't even touch mites.
 

WelshTan

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
1,047
i clicked on this thread so i wudnt have to make a new one and quite frankly i'm now confused by this long winded thread. . . earlier today i found 3 of my T tanks had lots of lil white tiny crawlies in them. . .all over the soil and eco-earth. . not many in the water, some on a dead crix. . . the 3 tanks have diff tevels of moisture in the substrate. . .chile rose which was almost bone dry eco-earth, the other 2 tanks slightly moist, one with potting soil substrate, other with eco-earth. I "cook" all substrate before placing it in the tanks. . .the tiny creatures bout size of grain of sand seem to be white or kind pale skin colour, they move but slowly, are also on the glass on sides of tanks. I found some in the kk that i have attempted to breed crix in, they had infested the dead crix in the soil. . ..sre these anything to be worried about? i dont know what these tiny creatures are.. .do u have any idea? they are in the dryer tank as well as some moister tanks. . .do i need to change n clean tanks or not worry? they are in quite noticable amounts, scattered everywhere, not in any set areas of the tanks. . .thanks
 
Top