P. Irminia and white stuff???

ok my P. Irmina had like this white stuff coming out of her fangs, so i start to get worried, then she starts rubbing ot all over the bottom of her tank on the sides and on the floor, any reason why this is?

oh and im back

new one to me, my three havent done that one before.

oh, and welcome back

Sounds like the creeping crud to me.
One of my T's had it. It didn't last long..
Sorry,

Ernie


See Bodisky's thread on 1st page. Its a sticky post...

Coming out of her fangs or coming out of her mouth? If coming out of her mouth it sounds like nematodes, a parasite that usually leads to death. I hope your spider makes it!

Originally posted by phoenixxavierre
Coming out of her fangs or coming out of her mouth? If coming out of her mouth it sounds like nematodes, a parasite that usually leads to death. I hope your spider makes it!

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oh dont worry me too much!!!

any ideas how to get rid of these parasites if they are them? im not sure where it came out, but she rubbed it off, i looked at her, and nothing was there, then suddenly theres this white liquid on her fangs, then she rubs it off.........

Originally posted by Grael
oh dont worry me too much!!!

any ideas how to get rid of these parasites if they are them? im not sure where it came out, but she rubbed it off, i looked at her, and nothing was there, then suddenly theres this white liquid on her fangs, then she rubs it off.........

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There are no known cures that I'm aware of. A shot in the dark though is that I've heard of centipedes being cured of their worms using Tetrafin fish food, the medicated fish flakes for internal parasites, mixed into their food. Perhaps a cricket dusted with this type of flake fish food would help? Like I said already, a shot in the dark. Be sure and supply a regular supply of water if you were to do this, though, as in the case of the centipede it caused great thirst. Also, it might be difficult to find this type of fish food. I'm unsure. I think it may have been removed from the market? At any rate, I haven't had a fish tank for a year, so I haven't been shopping for fish food.

I've also heard of horse wormer being used, (yes, strange) a very tiny amount of course. Not sure of the success rate though.

I wonder if Panacur would be able to be used for deworming a tarantula.

It's been prescribed for many of my reptiles from large to very small, supposedly it isn't very toxic either being hard to overdose it. I find the latter a bit hard to believe but who knows!

I don't know how one would administer it to a tarantula exactly, maybe smear a bit on a food item??

Just a thought

Pixie

Panacur was the wormer I was speaking of. I've heard of keepers using it on their tarantulas but fail to remember if it worked. I think it did or it wouldn't have stuck in my head.

Best wishes,

Paul

Oh man I'm so sorry...if she's having what my pulchra had I dont think she's gonna last long. I cleaned my pulchra daily, which won't be as easy with an irminia!

CLICK HERE for the thread I posted about my pulchra...let me know if it looks anything like that.

Also...can you get close enough go smell it? Maybe get some out with a Q-tip and smell it? If it has a very foul odor its bacteria of some sort...mine really stank to be honest!

And make sure you contact bodisky about this. You can sent stuff to their lab for further evaluation. Good luck man!

Jake

Hope the T gets better... I was about to suggest you send of samples to RIESM for them to study but saw you aren't from the states. If you're interested read the sticky at the top of the page. I doubt that if she does die you could send her body here for them to research, but you could send a swab for them to study to help understand what type things attack Ts and get them sick. You might contact them though even now to see if they have any suggestions for treatment of these type symptoms though. Hope you find out what's causing it and how to fix it

Wb, hey that sucks, hope it gets better soon.

Here is a copy of an email I received from a Yahoo group. It is posted in its entirety. I hope this doesnt break any rules.


Hi Larry,

We did some work here in the UK, thanks to very kind
help from Lynn Carta (a Nematologist in the USA), as
well as Guy Tansley, Ray Gabriel, Andy Matthews, who
very kindly sent me samples, infected spiders, and
they and I tried treatments in several spiders. We
worked with combinations of benzimidazole
anthelminthics, to try and kill the worms, as well as enrofloxacin (baytril), a fluroquinolone related to Cipro, on their own, as well as in combination, but unfortunately nothing was really effective. Please see further on for another potential problem with trying to treating these cases.

Larry is kindly doing some microbiology at the moment,
which is fantastic, as he is getting miles better
results than the labs over here did, and I really
think this will help us come up with a better
treatment. I do look forward to seeing more of the
exciting results he seems to be getting. I still
desperately need more samples to help better classify
the nematodes, and see just how many different types
are affecting our spiders. Please contact me if you
are in the US or Europe about sending samples to Lynn
in the US or me here in the UK.

We recently published a short note in the veterinary
literature:
Pizzi, R. Carta, L. George, S. (2003) Oral nematode
infection of tarantulas. Veterinary Record, 152, 22,
695.

Below is a brief summary of what we (think) we know so
far:

The infection initially manifests with anorexia,
gradually increased lethargy, progressing to a huddled
posture, and eventually death, with deaths occurring
several weeks, or even months, after signs are first
noted. Macroscopically, what appears to be a white
discharge between the mouth and chelicerae, may be
noted particularly during the later stages of
infection. Under magnification this may be seen to
consist of a mass of extremely small, motile
nematodes. The disease has been noted in numerous
captive bred and wild caught terrestrial and arboreal
species from the Americas, Asia, and Africa. The
source of infection and mode of transmission are so
far unknown, but collections with infections have
reported spread of the infection between separate
enclosures in the same rooms, once infection is first
noted. Nematodes have so far been classified as
belonging to the Panagrolaimidae family (Phylum
Nemata, Order Rhabditida) and DNA sequencing is
currently being performing to better position it phylogenetically. Histopathology has demonstrated secondary, or possible symbiotic bacterial invasion as a complication. Treatment attempts with different combinations of benzimidazoles and fluoroquinolone antimicrobials have all been unsuccessful, and have not appeared to prolong survival. A final point of importance is the zoonotic potential of some other nematode species belonging to the Panagrolaimidae family. Reported human cases have occurred as infections of deep wounds. Large specimens of species such as the Goliath bird-eater (Theraphosa blondi) may have fangs up to 3cm in length, and this makes secondary infection of bites a possibility. For the above mentioned reasons, we advise that until the mode of transmission has been elucidated, veterinarians dealing with theraphosidae spiders in zoological collections institute a minimum quarantine period of newly aquired spiders, in a separate room, of at least 30 days. This should be prolonged in anorexic spiders approaching ecdysis, until resumption of normal feeding behavior after ecdysis has been observed. Practitioners dealing with these species as pets should also be alert to this infection, and hobbyists’ attention has already been drawn to the problem (Pizzi and others 2002b; 2002c). Due to the zoonotic risk, and unsuccessful treatment attempts, euthanasia of all affected spiders is strongly advised. As previously described (Pizzi and others, 2002a) humane euthanasia is best performed with isoflurane in an airtight container, followed by immersion in 70% ethanol, to enable later histology if needed. Euthanasia by direct immersion in alcohol, as commonly used by many entomologists is not regarded as humane, with the author observing sustained motility in tarantula spiderlings for over 5 minutes where this method has been used. Specimen preservation in buffered formalin is not recommended, as cuticular hardening makes histological sectioning very difficult, even after softening in acid. I am keen to hear of occurrences of this infection, and the spider species involved, to help further elucidate the transmission of this emerging problem.

Please feel free to put my reply on any/all tarantula
e mail groups you want (I used to be on several before
going to India!). I keep meaning to write a short
piece for the ATS forum magazine and BTS journal (if
people are interested), but just havn't had the time.
If the general consensus is that this would be useful,
I will do so. I am also happy to write a spider
"formulary", of drugs and doses that I and a handful
of other vets have used, for Forum or BTS journal.
There are no garantees that these work, but they are a
starting point, and at least will be helpful to take
to the local vet. Pester Dr "Spider Bob" Breene, and
Richard Gallon (two even busier chaps) to get on my
case, and I will eventually get round to it (amongst
the papers on cannabis toxicity in chinchillas,
anaesthesia of Indian reptiles, Af bullfrog leg
amputations, Indian vulture haematology, Gannet
deaths, tortoise toxicities, etc - sorry for getting
side tracked!)

Hope that this is of interest and of some use,
Kind regards
Romain
P.S. Please contact me via individual e mail, as I am
swamped with e mails at the moment, and so am not back
on the lists yet!

Romain Pizzi
BVSc MSc CertZooMed FRES MRCVS
Fellow of the Royal Entomological Society
Royal College of veterinary Surgeons Certified in
Zoological Medicine




=====

Romain Pizzi BVSc MSc CertZooMed FRES MRCVS
RCVS Certified in Zoological Medicine

Dept of Veterinary Clinical Studies, Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University, Easterbush, Roslin, Midlothian, EH25 9RG, United Kingdom. romainp@bigfoot.com

Isolate the T and it's enclosure immediately!!!! Nematodes spread like wldfire if given the chance and the mortality rate is extremely high. GET IT AWAY FROM YOUR OTHER T'S!!!!

Steve

oh my god........thanks for the reply guys, but im sorry i cant kill her unless i know shes in pain, she seems fine, and no more traces of that stuff, ive got a number for an exotic pet vet so there seems to be nothing, but i wanna see what he says, i just pray to the tarantula god she survives...

Originally posted by Grael
oh my god........thanks for the reply guys, but im sorry i cant kill her unless i know shes in pain, she seems fine, and no more traces of that stuff, ive got a number for an exotic pet vet so there seems to be nothing, but i wanna see what he says, i just pray to the tarantula god she survives...

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The only post I didn't read thuroughly was the really LOOOOOOONG one with the scientific stuff.... I'm confused though on who said to kill it? I musta missed that post?

Originally posted by Telson
The only post I didn't read thuroughly was the really LOOOOOOONG one with the scientific stuff.... I'm confused though on who said to kill it? I musta missed that post?

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Read the scientific stuff, SKIMMER.. ;P


E

well i changed Isis out into a bigger tank and theres no sign of those things or any traces on the sides of the tank, hopefully shes frought them off by herself :?

I had the same thing happen to my A. avic.
He is doing fine now. It could have also been a minor
fungus infection. Or even something as simple as digestive fluids
I hope your T is ok~:0)

And welcome back, by the way

Originally posted by sunnymarcie
I had the same thing happen to my A. avic.
He is doing fine now. It could have also been a minor
fungus infection. Or even something as simple as digestive fluids
I hope your T is ok~:0)

And welcome back, by the way

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thanks i hope it is, she seems fine

finally someone who isnt all gloom and doon :}