Poecilotheria: ventral sexing vs. dorsal sexing

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
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Alright, so I haven't really got this dorsal sexing thing down yet, and I hear so many people say that it's easier to dorsally sex a pokie than to ventrally sex one.

This formosa is 2". Male, right?





I have a subfusca that's ~1" exhibiting the same 'dot'. To me this is obviously male, as my female pokies that are larger than this don't have the dot.

I should also add I have a female regalis that's about 3" without the dot, too. I got her much smaller and never saw one.

So am I correct in saying that it's possible to ventrally sex pokies that are sub 2" without much of a problem?

Any other pictures are welcome, and anyone who feels like going into detail about describing dorsal sexing would be awesome, too (pictures, what exactly to look for, etc.)

I should also add I found this relatively recent thread:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=156828

But it did not discuss dorsal sexing. There is an interesting point about the possibility of the flash creating an issue with being able to sex the spiders, so I'll say right now that these dots are still there without use of a flash/flashlight.

Thanks.

--Joe
 
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AudreyElizabeth

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I've been trying to figure this out myself. If I've learned correctly then I would say your formosa is male.

I'm thinking that my regalis is female.



I'm still not sure about dorsal sexing, so I'll leave that to someone else.
 

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
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Your regalis looks female to me, too. I'll photograph my 3" and my 7" and try some comparisons when I get the opportunity.
 

Endagr8

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What do you see that indicates male?
Well, I'm not the best at ventral sexing (obviously {D ), but I could swear that the MM that I had awhile ago looked identical ventrally.


I'm still not seeing why it's an obvious female. :wall:
 

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
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Well, I'm not the best at ventral sexing (obviously {D ), but I could swear that the MM that I had awhile ago looked identical ventrally.


I'm still not seeing why it's an obvious female. :wall:
Well, to me, the regalis has nothing similar to the 'dot' that I see indicating male.

I'm going to try to get some pics of my females.
 

Noexcuse4you

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I think these photos will help. It will be painfully obvious when you have a male.

Female



Male

 

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
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Here come my pics:

P. rufilata 4" female:





P. rufilata 4" male:





P. regalis 4" female:





P. formosa 8" female:





The pics aren't as good as Kyle's, but hopefully they will do.

Btw, the female/male thing is what my opinion is based on ventral sexing. Everyone is welcome to give their thoughts and reasoning. :)

--Joe
 

lithiumflower9

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I started digging around looking for dorsal sexing info all over the net. Then I found a few posts that seemed to discredit this type of sexing for pokies.

In this link the user posted pictures of 3 Regalis of similar size.
(http://sfbats.myfreeforum.org/ftopic1165-0-asc-0.php)

Around post 19 some one brings up dorsal sexing. Another post states it didn't work for his pokie. I think it was a Regalis too.
(http://venomlist.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7&st=0&start=0)

I also found on a euro site that said...

"There are exceptions to this, including younger P. Metallica, P. Rufilata, and colour variants of P. Subfusca, but it usually can be used relatively accurately." It also says "How prominent the shapes and colour shades are, differ from specimen to specimen. I had to sell a sub adult Rufilata as unsexed recently, as it was too close to call either way. The most reliable method is to sex via an exuvium, however a combination of dorsal markings, and the shape of the epigastric region on suitably sized specimens is a very reliable method for the most part."
(http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/spiders-inverts/234784-newbie-guide-poecilotheria.html)

So I'm not sure that it can be a reliable way to sex pokies. Then again maybe it works for some at a certain stage in their growth. I'd be very interested in seeing more data on this though.
 

vvx

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So looks like the easiest way to sex the pokie ventrally is that little area.

Pics make it easier.

Even through the dirty container, this looks male.



Because of this area right here.



Am I getting this right?
 

Draiman

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Perhaps a little off topic, but Joe, you have a 8" P. formosa? :eek:

I thought they were one of the smaller Poecilotheria species.
 

xhexdx

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Vvx, that's what I think based on your pictures, too.

Gavin, I'll go try and get a picture without losing the damn spider. :}

Later, though. Gotta party today. ;)
 

billopelma

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I know it's a grainy blown up pic, but this one looks 'iffy' to me, regalis are not always really obvious in my experience, striata even less so.





I have some ventral pics of a 6" regalis that you'd swear are female in one and male in another. I had a striata that I thought was changing sex every other molt till he finally matured.

Male P. striata





Not that I'm doubting it's possible but I'd also like to see an 8" P. formosa.



Bill
 
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Draiman

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Gavin, I'll go try and get a picture without losing the damn spider. :}
I'm not doubting you Joe, just a tad surprised. I sure wouldn't mind a measurement pic though - if she really is 8" then my 6" female might have some hope of getting a little larger. :)
 

xhexdx

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Heh, I'll work on pictures once there are more people in the house. My son is asleep right now and I'm the only one here; I don't want to start working with her and have him suddenly wake up.

I admit I haven't actually measured her yet, it was a rough guess. We'll see how she measures up when I get out there. I'll also go measure her last molt and get a pic when I can.
 

TalonAWD

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From my experience the dot is a dead giveaway. Its basically a patch of darker hair that makes it look like a dot formed.

Male P regalis. Clearly see the dot. (The foto is flipped)



Here he is again at 6" You can see the dot still just not as clear in this shot.
 

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
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By the way, I got pics of the formosa. I was off a little, I'll get them posted soon.
 
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