P. lugardi Ruptured Abdomen. Apparently Baby had too much back...

MrDeranged · Feb 24, 2004

Hey All,

Some of you may have seen my very big butted P. lugardi. In case you didn't, here she is.

That picture was taken on Sunday, February 15th.

Here are some pics of how I found her on Sunday, February 22nd:

Top down view:

Close Up #1:

Close Up #2:

Pic of the underside:

It's not from a fall. I found it in exactly the position it was in the pictures (well, except for the one where it was turned over of course). Looks like it was just sitting there and it ripped open.

I just wish I knew if it ruptured before or after death. I'm pretty sure that she was very very full of eggs. It's possible that if it died first, then the rotting of the insides expanded and ruptured the abdomen, or maybe the eggs went bad and if they started to rot while still inside the t, killing it as they rotted...

When I opened up the abdomen, the only thing in there was mush. Couldn't find anything solid...

What's everyone else think?

Scott

Angela · Feb 24, 2004

I'm so sorry.If she seemed healthy before, sounds to me like maybe the sac went bad first resulting in her death.Terrible thing to happen, I'm sorry you lost her.

Angela

burnpile · Feb 24, 2004

Seems suspiciously similiar to an eggbound snake. The anatomy of course is different, but inability to pass eggs combined with a growing eggmass = rupture. In your opinion had she been carrying the eggmass too long internaly?

bodc21 · Feb 24, 2004

Can this happen because of feeding to much?if so im not feeding my difficilis for awile.

burnpile · Feb 24, 2004

Originally posted by bodc21
Can this happen because of feeding to much?if so im not feeding my difficilis for awile.

If this was the cause of death and not a post mortem incident, there would almost have to be some sort of intestinal or sex organ canal blockage. The pressure required to rupture the excoskeleton would send the material out the path of least resistance first.

Immortal_sin · Feb 24, 2004

wow..never seen anything like that.
Do you know for sure it wasn't some sort of parasite? The canal blockage theory also makes sense. Sorry to hear about it, I'd hate to find that in one of my containers

abstract · Feb 24, 2004

Scott-

Did you have any abnormal feeding habits for her? I think the theories about eggs are probably more likely responsible for her death - or a rupture post-death. However, I'm just curious as to whether you were tossing in pinkies daily or anything...... :?

Code Monkey · Feb 24, 2004

This is just wild speculation, but particularly with something like an African species that is usually a bit more streamlined than that girl, I would think that if there wasn't sufficient circulation or whatever it amounts to within the mess of ovaries and other internal organs in a ginormous tarantula abdomen that an infection from a decaying egg mass or anything else would have been more likely.

rob · Feb 24, 2004

My adult female P. murinus died the same exact way last year! She was gravid and had gotten huge, but I found her with her abdomen ruptured in the same spot as yours. Couldn't have been a fall because the depth from substrate to lid was extremely short. Sorry for your loss.

Sheri · Feb 24, 2004

This is likely a stupid addition to an otherwise intleligent thread but did you find her in a death curl? I noticed the legs appeared normal and was wondering if you straightened them out, or if the fact that she didn't do the death curl thing could be an indication of an unusual death.
I have never seen a dead tarantula before except for a tiny a avic in a pet store.

MrDeranged · Feb 24, 2004

Nope, didn't feed it any different than my other t's.

She had been big for a long time, it was only recently that she seemed to be getting even bigger.

Personally, I'm gonna have to go with being "eggbound" for whatever reason being the cause of death along with the eggs starting to rot internally, expanding till they ripped open the abdomen, killing the T.

The lack of any death curl leads me to believe that death was sudden...

Scott

bodc21 · Feb 24, 2004

well if it was sudden that is a good thing poor t
sorry for the loss.

Mendi · Feb 24, 2004

So very sorry for your loss

bodisky · Feb 24, 2004

Re: Apparently Baby had too much back...

Originally posted by mrderanged
Hey All,

It's possible that if it died first, then the rotting of the insides expanded and ruptured the abdomen, or maybe the eggs went bad and if they started to rot while still inside the t, killing it as they rotted...

When I opened up the abdomen, the only thing in there was mush. Couldn't find anything solid...

What's everyone else think?

Scott

Scott,
Finding what you describe as "couldn't find anything solid" is quite common in deceased T's. Bacteria just takes over, nothing is left but goo. Whether or not the bacteria (s) is a natural post mortem occurance or the cause of death is still unknown. Judging from your pics it looks bacterial. But that may be a secondary result of something else as you mentioned. The presence of bacteria has an atrocious smell when you cut open the abdomen. A fungal or yeast infection smells quite different. IME.
We are getting a clearer picture of what is common and what is lethal/normal re: bacteria and fungus presence in T's. The bad news is that the research is a very long road that raises more questions than answers and has T's dying along the way.
Kerry
RIESM

bodisky · Feb 25, 2004

Scott,
I also forgot to mention, that if you look closely at your first pic you will see that the pedicel is very noticeable. IMHO. More often than not this is a sign of things going wrong. When I see dying T's that have this kind of problem, its almost as if the T is trying to discard the abdomen. I have seen badly infected T's actually do this, the abdomen just comes off.
Kerry
RIESM

MrDeranged · Feb 25, 2004

Originally posted by bodisky
Scott,
I also forgot to mention, that if you look closely at your first pic you will see that the pedicel is very noticeable. IMHO. More often than not this is a sign of things going wrong. When I see dying T's that have this kind of problem, its almost as if the T is trying to discard the abdomen. I have seen badly infected T's actually do this, the abdomen just comes off.
Kerry
RIESM

Hey Kerry,

I've seen it before (distended pedicel) and never had this kind of outcome before. Normally, if I see it, I slow down on the feeding as it's generally only in "overweight" t's that it becomes that noticeable. I had started this particular t on a diet of about 1 cricket every 2 weeks or so as the size was really starting to worry me. I've been expecting her to dump the eggs for about a month now, but she never did, just kept getting bigger.

I've never heard of a T throwing its abdomen before. What species did you experience this with and did you find any abnormal pathogens that might have caused them to basically commit suicide?

Scott

manville · Feb 25, 2004

woah that really sucks whatever happened to it

bodisky · Feb 25, 2004

Originally posted by mrderanged
Hey Kerry,

I've never heard of a T throwing its abdomen before. What species did you experience this with and did you find any abnormal pathogens that might have caused them to basically commit suicide?

Scott

Scott,
A. moderatum. It was sent to me in advanced stage of disease. No nematode presence. We have no idea if the lab results were abnormal as no one knows whats normal for T's and what is not. The pedicel is noticeable in conditions that you mention but its also present (IME more extreme) when there is a problem.
Kerry
RIESM

P. lugardi Ruptured Abdomen. Apparently Baby had too much back...

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