Huge Phoneutria Nigrivinter

[Cpt.nemO]

Ok everyone, there are a few brazilian threads about arachnids. Mostly about T's. Well there are a few (crazy obviously) that have Phoneutria Nigrivinter and even breed (simply mental) this at home. Now the pics you are about to see will impress all of you. Normally the Phoneutria Nigrivinter looks more like a wolf spider (Lycosa) but with a leg span o 10 - 13 cm. Practically all are thin (like a lycosa) except its proportionally larger.

Now take a look at the size of this Phoneutria Nigrivinter. If the guy gets bitten, well you probably know what will happen to him (a few minutes a life left). I just posted asking whether he has the antivenom in the fridge (just now), but i really think he doesn't.

BTW the common name is: Brazilian wondering spider.

Anyways be amazed:

<PICTURES REMOVED DUE TO COPYRIGHT VIOLATION>

[Lorgakor]

Aren't the same photos already posted in the Other Arachnid forum? It is a very cool spider, though it is Brazilian Wandering Spider.

[Randolph XX()]

are those ur photos? i kinda remember i've seen it somewhere b4
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=41096

u don't have rights to remain silence

[FryLock]

Originally Posted by Cpt.nemO

Now take a look at the size of this Phoneutria Nigrivinter. If the guy gets bitten, well you probably know what will happen to him (a few minutes a life left). I just posted asking whether he has the antivenom in the fridge (just now), but i really think he doesn't.

Well ppl do die from their bite but the official figures show a very low death rate compared to the numbers of reported bites, iv seen them posted on another board but don't have them to hand Lelle or someone else that has an interest in the family may have them to post here, but if iirc the % of fatalty was low.

[Elizabeth]

Thank you, Frylock. Try the "other arachnids" forum, CptNemo, and get some better info. That sensationalistic stuff, like he only has a few minutes to live if he gets bitten, is really hard to quell. It's like saying you will surely die if a black widow bites you. Just not so, not even likely, and as a matter of fact, highly unlikely if you are a healthy adult.

You are supposed to give proper credit for images. From the Rules on AB:

Excerpt:

Picture Use On Arachnoboards

Pictures used on Arachnoboards must either be owned by you or you must have permission from the copyright holder. By "used" we mean through attaching to a post or through use of the "img" tag. If you neither own the picture, nor have permission to use it, post a link.

End of Excerpt.

Nice that you are taking an interest in spiders other than tarantulas, though.

[Cpt.nemO]

Ok , i have a discovery channel documentary on brazillian wondering spider. It says that the venom is neurotoxic. In this case example the person was bitten on the neck, so it took a little less than 5 mins for him to lose sight, followed by sitting on the ground, start sweating , having lots and lots of muscle contractions until it hits that major muscle contraction ( i think the word would be seisure), seconds after that the victim stops breathing as the muscles don;t work anymore and he dies. In this case the human given as an example was a large strong man that worked on banana plantations.

So you get the picture , its more up to where you get bitten to varry the severity of the venom poisoning (disconsidering any unnormal alergic reactions that the individual might have). As for the rates: bites x death, most of the ones who servive, lose most of the sensibility of the muscles all around the region, in many cases it causes paralysis (i think thats what is called in english) of the lower body members and specially on the part of the body where the bite took place.

As for the white widow thats an idiot example as its venom is very slow acting (obviously there a few extreme cases of alergic reactions but also very uncommon) and the bite doesn't sting not near as much as one of a brazilian wondering spider. Pluss , the brazilian wondering spider venom is imediate. From the moment you have been bitten you will feel hell on earth thats for sure. In my opinion this is one of the most dangerous species around the planet (I think its tied with the male sidney funnel web) in matters of fast acting strong reaction venoms. Not only that but this spiders name in portuguese is "Armadeira" which means: "Armar" means to prepare for attack and "deira" just simply gives the attribute of "Armar" to the spider. Therefore the name is basiclly that which is always ready to attack, and this comes from its reputation of assuming the attacking position for anything.

Those of you who hAve a better knowledge of this species certainly know their ferociouness and how much they try to sting, like it can just keep trying and trying to sting if you fiddle with it, if you simply blow some gentle breeze at it will already assume the attack positio. I caught one in my friends farm but it was sick and with a few members missing (e.g. 2 legs and a palp). Still i threw i wild caught giant moth and it took less than a second for it to pounce on the moth which was airborning inside of the large glass jar (and it was still missing a few members). After a few days her abdomen burst and a couple of white slugs came out.

I hope you all see that its not that i havn't researched it and the black widows and the funnel webs and the mouse spiders and the brown spiders, violin etc. etc. etc. Its not as if I haven't got a clue of what i am talking about. And to a certain extent I am amazed you didn't mention abouit the rates of people who have survived the bites and nothing happened x the people who servived the bites but got paralysis in a certain member or even in the inferior part of the body.

BTW, remember i mentioned that i few crazy ones breed this species well take a look at this picture. 1 day after the first ling left the egg sac. Just as a reminder, from all of this only 14 are left, all of the rest escaped acording to the person who did it. So u imagine the danger that dealling with this is. He might be putting others peoples lifes in danger , specially children and elder ones.

<PICTURE REMOVED DUE TO COPYRIGHT VIOLATION>

[shogun804]

you have a Discovery channel documentary on them..oh my god, people pull down the curtains this show is over

sweet pics though (*credit to the owners of the pics*).

[FryLock]

Originally Posted by Cpt.nemO

And to a certain extent I am amazed you didn't mention abouit the rates of people who have survived the bites and nothing happened x the people who servived the bites but got paralysis in a certain member or even in the inferior part of the body.

That is a good point but seeing as there seem to be no cases listed in medical sites about long term paralysis who can say how many times that happens (unless someone has links to cases?), the is a good artical >Here< Quote from it,

"From January, 1984 to December, 1996, 422 patients (ages 9 m-99 y, median 29 y) were admitted after being bitten by spiders which were brought and identified as Phoneutria spp. Most of the bites occurred at March and April months (29.2%), in the houses (54.5%), during the day (76.5%), and in the limbs (feet 40.9%, hands 34.3%). Upon hospital admission, most patients presented only local complaints, mainly pain (92.1%) and edema (33.1%) and were classified as presenting mild (89.8%), moderate (8.5%) and severe (0.5%) envenomation. Few patients (1.2%) did not present signs of envenomation. Severe accidents were only confirmed in two children (9 m, 3 y). Both developed acute pulmonary edema, and the older died 9 h after the accident. Patients more than 70 year-old had a significantly greater (p<0.05) frequency of moderate envenomations compared to the 10-70-year-old individuals. Proceedings to relief local pain were frequently performed (local anesthesia alone 32.0%, local anesthesia plus analgesics 20.6% and oral analgesics alone 25.1%). Only 2.3% of the patients (two cases classified as severe and eight as moderate, eight of them in children) were treated with i.v. antiarachnid antivenom. No antivenom early reaction was observed. In conclusion, accidents involving the genus Phoneutria are common in the region of Campinas, with the highest risk groups being children under 10 years of age and adults over 70 years of age. Cases of serious envenomation are rare (0.5%)."

[Crotalus]

Its Phoneutria nigriventer
I have bred them and im not the least crazy, but some might disagree.
And for the 10908 time: spider venom DO NOT cause allergic responses....
And no, I dont care what Discovery Channel says.
And if spiderlings escape, no big deal really. They dont survive indoors. And I dont think they survive indoors in Brazil either, they are very difficult to raise in captivity.

/Lelle

[nightbreed]

From what I've read this is a very dangerous spider, I'm not saying that a bite is an automatic death sentance, but when you look at these facts.
The spider has a very large venom gland 10.4 x 2.7 mm as compared to a T.blondi's 12 x 1.6 mm
It's venom is approximately 18 times more toxic than L.mactans (lethal dose for mice 0.006mg for P.nigriventer, and 0.11 for L.mactans but as we all know just because its very toxic to rodents doesnt mean it will have the same effect in humans)
So large venom gland + strong venom = bad day for anyone who gets bitten by one of these.

Information on gland size and venom toxicity taken from an article written by Martin Nicholas.

[Crotalus]

The spider genus Phoneutria is a dangerous one yes. The numbers you are quoting are the same as in Guinness Book of Records and are not a reliable source of information at all.
No spider got a LD50 of 0.006 mg, that would mean its even more toxic then inland taipan (0.025 mg)... Which is not true. LD50 for P. nigriventer is 0.3 mg according to a german article (Herzig, 2004). Besides, LD50 dont mean nothing at all except toxicity on mice really.

/Lelle

[Steven]

Aren't those Adnans pictures ?

and why is it in the T-section ?

[Scorpendra]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Picture Use On Arachnoboards

Pictures used on Arachnoboards must either be owned by you or you must have permission from the copyright holder. By "used" we mean through attaching to a post or through use of the "img" tag. If you neither own the picture, nor have permission to use it, post a link.

End of Excerpt.

what she said.


this should be in the "other arachnids" section, whether this section has the word "pictures" in it or not.

The bananna spider (i like to use that name) is my favorite non-tarantula spider. i have a copy of the guiness book, and it is listed as the most venomous spider on earth.

[Cpt.nemO]

Ok you all, the documentary I saw about the wandering spider on discovery was obviously undetailed and very generalized. And as i said before in this case the person was bitten on the neck. As you all can see by frylocks stats. most of the bites occur far from the head and upper chest region, no wonder you can find rates such as those you presented. I wanted to make quite clear that the documentary i watched was lame regarding my past knowledge of this species. I had seen another brazilian documentary acouple of years ago, where it showed and interviewed people who had been bitten and got severe paralysis, in some cases it even changed the position of a limb (eg. a finger which pointed to the side instead of being straight, from what i remember, this was mainly due to muscle destruction due to the severe contractions and seizures, before you ask, yes the bite took place on the finger.).

Anyways if i could move the thread to another place i would but i am not a moderator. Secondly, about the slings running away and surviving, the author still posts that every now and then he catches a wandering spider around the house (even though he lives in a region where this is highly improbable to occur). He has captured a few since the event and already quite large considering that the were slings when they scattered. I regard this as extremely dangerous, specially for the others around him, eg. family neighbours, pets etc. etc.

As for alergic reactions to spider venom, yes that occurs but its obviously not commun. The same way i might be allergic to a bee sting an you not, there are people who are very sensitive and allergic to many things specially insect stings, i wouldn't doubt that not at all. Do you really think that in the whole world there aren't people who would have allergic reactions to a specific spider venom (basicly allergy to a specific chemical being contained in the venom) ??? Doesn't need to be allergic to the venom itself, however there are so many mixed chemicals that the person could be terribly allergic to a specific substance, and therefore trigger an alergic reaction. Think about it before you say its total bullshit.

Frylock: thanks for participating with such enthusiasm people like you make threads interesting.

ta ta.

And yes pics are from andan, and yes i asked him to use them.

BTW most of the cases of spider bites of these wandering spiders, normally the spiders are sub adult to adult, but even though the are far thinner and less encorped than the one from the picture. Imagine the venom sacs on that huge spider in the pic. Imagine how much more venom it can deposite in aq single bite in comparison to the average wondering spider. We all know that spiders such as these which depend mainly in jumping a couple of feets and in their venom need to be slimmer and agile. All of these which are wild caught are slim, just like a Lycosa but a giant Lycosa. This one from the pic is an exception, it has been given a lot of easy prey so she doesnl't need to worry about beeing agile. But still imagine how much venom she can deposit if she bites Andan in the hand ??

[Crotalus]

Originally Posted by Molitor

what she said.


this should be in the "other arachnids" section, whether this section has the word "pictures" in it or not.

The bananna spider (i like to use that name) is my favorite non-tarantula spider. i have a copy of the guiness book, and it is listed as the most venomous spider on earth.

Is it so difficult to understand that Guinness book is not a reliable source of information?

/Lelle