T. Blondi food

I've read numerous threads regarding calcium/magnesium dilemma and how it's are bad for T's. What do you feed your larger T's other than pinkies/fuzzies and large roaches to be able to satisfy their nutrional needs?

I don't really buy the "fangs falling out from too much calcium" theory that seems to be all the rage now, however I have also never fed one of my T's a steady diet of nothing but pinkies. In my experience, even the largest T's will eat large crickets, you just need to offer more of them. The largest T I ever had was an L. parahybana, and it would never even take a pinkie. I gave that one three or four crickets a day as long as it would take them. It got plenty fat on those untill it's ultimate molt, then he only had an interest in love.

You also mentioned roaches. Roaches may be an even better food source than crickets, and do not contain the high levels of calcium that some people feel may be bad for your T. If you can get them, big roaches might be your answer. My personal feeling though, is that a steady diet of big crickets with one or two pinkies thrown in every few months is perfectly safe and sufficient.

I mostly feed my T. blondi crickets and anole lizards. The lizards can be pricey depending on where you get them, but he loves anoles!

I did feed mine pinkies/small lizards, and large crickets.


-Matty

This was mentioned on another thread and I just want to reiterate it here. Frogs are a good to feed a T. blondi. But before you feed it anything you caught, make sure you 'quarintine' the animal by keeping it for at least 48 hours before feeding it. Might also want to feed the quarintined animal to load it up for your T.

Never feed something you caught outside to your T - Quarantined or not. EVERYTHING you get outside will have a certain amount of pesticides in it. Secondly, I have more blondi's than Jenna has movies. I feed my blondis mice only. I have never had a problem. I do also feed my mice things like crickets, dog food, etc.

What exactly do you classify as a feeding problem (concerning mice)?
A problem 50% of the time? 25% of the time? 10% The concern is only a theory.

If it truly was a problem (which I consider to be 15% of the time or more), I, and many others, would have already been posting about it.

T.S.

Soulsick said:

Never feed something you caught outside to your T - Quarantined or not. EVERYTHING you get outside will have a certain amount of pesticides in it.

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I agree.

I've obsevered several wild caught crickets that contained some kind of parasite or worm thing. Once many years ago, I wanted to feed a T and went out and found a cricket, I cupped it to hard with my hand and must have made the worm uncomfortable, because it started comming out.

Since I live in a rural area and don't spray pesticides around our house (years ago we sprayed for a flea epidemic) I wouldn't trust WC feeders just for the fact that anything can have something else living in or on it.

Soulsick said:

What exactly do you classify as a feeding problem (concerning mice)?
A problem 50% of the time? 25% of the time? 10% The concern is only a theory.

If it truly was a problem (which I consider to be 15% of the time or more), I, and many others, would have already been posting about it.

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I know that you have tons of T. blondi and I don't doubt what you say regarding you observations. I did want to ask how long you have been doing this though as the problem may be a long term effect. The ATS has seen many reports of tarantulas (mostly T. blondi and A. geniculata) that have lost fangs. These tarantulas were on mice only diets. So, there are observations supporting the theory.

More than likely if this truly a problem, than time is also a factor.

Windchaser said:

These tarantulas were on mice only diets. So, there are observations supporting the theory.

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But what were the conditions like before they were big enough for mice? They weren't always on mice.

Plus blondis have molt problems to begin with. Not sure about genics.

Just something else to consider.

What exactly do you classify as a feeding problem (concerning mice)?

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I would deem a 'mouse' a problem if it caused harm to my T. There have been reports about this on the internet. Some mice have even killed T's before. Basically it's because they have teeth and that can puncture the T, either causing injury or death. It only has to happen once for me to stop using mice. I care so much about my T's that I just couldn't allow for another chance like that if it does happen. This is one reason why I only feed any of my T's mice rarely. And, hey, you're right that if there was a problem with this, people would definitely be posting about it. However, this is not my only source of information. I try to collect as much information as possible so that I can do the best at taking care of my collection.

And on the whole 'quarintine' issue. Pesticides do not stay in an animals system for the entirety of it's life. Living things usually have some sort of immune system that will take care of it, unless contamination (of whatever sort) is too much, then that animal dies. I feed my T's wild caught food more rarely than I feed them mice. This is usually only when someone presents a wild caught animal to me. And hey, wild T's have to eat wild animals. I like to keep variety in their diet, and I don't want to just restrict them to mice or crickets because they are captive animals. With that said though, it is cautioned that one would feed their T a wild animal. I'm not running around blowing a trumpet to the idea of it. I just do it very rarely, and when I do it, it is with caution. Hence, I keep the animal for 7 days, and after that the poisons will either have left the animal or killed it. I'm not asking for everyone to agree with me, I am merely presenting what I do. No one has to choose to accept what I do, and that's fine. Just informing other people in the hobby.

Fed my large ones gold fish more often than not. also crickets and mice. I never fed live mice, they were either thawed or freshly knocked out. Pinks i would toss in alive.

DanCameron said:

Pesticides do not stay in an animals system for the entirety of it's life. Living things usually have some sort of immune system that will take care of it, unless contamination (of whatever sort) is too much, then that animal dies.

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Actually poisons can stay in your body and your immune system can't fix it. Lead, DET, arsenic taken in low doses is fine but it does build up after time.

Troops in Vietnam that were in contact with Agent Orange didn't just die right away but would live and be disabled.

Pesticides do not stay in an animals system for the entirety of it's life.

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Some do, DDT being the prime example but there are many others which bioaccumulate in animals.

Windchaser said:

I know that you have tons of T. blondi and I don't doubt what you say regarding you observations. I did want to ask how long you have been doing this though as the problem may be a long term effect. The ATS has seen many reports of tarantulas (mostly T. blondi and A. geniculata) that have lost fangs. These tarantulas were on mice only diets. So, there are observations supporting the theory.

More than likely if this truly a problem, than time is also a factor.

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Chemosh nailed out my reply to the pesticide question...so here wo go Windchaser (I am ashamed I don't know your name by now).

I have been keeping tarantulas for 14 to 15 years. I started with the massive blondi invasions about 6 or 7 years ago. 6 or 7 years is fairly long term, but maybe not long enough in some peoples eyes. I kept blondis before this, but 6 or 7 years is the point where I got more than 10.

When they were younger I would feed crickets, yes, but once they hit 3 inches they would be fed pinkies, then upgrades to lizards and pinkie rats, then hoppers, fuzzies, etc. So for the duration of their lives, they only ate inverts for about 4 to 6 months. Everything after these "small periods" they were fed verts. Like I have said many times, I have never had a problem with my blondis (or genics for that matter - but I only have two of them).

Also, my blondis don't eat a mouse a month. They eat like 3 a month. One of my blondis ate 9 mice in 6 six weeks. So what does this say? They are eating more mice (compared to a 1 per month average - 3 times as many). This means they must be getting 3 times as much calcium. So wouldn't you think that a problem would have occured by now? Maybe not, but the chances are much greater, right?

Is this theory an actual test or is it based on just "ATS Reports" from single owners? If it is a test, how many blondis are they using? Are they using an excess of 20 like me? There are so many unknowns. I'd like to actually post more if I could see a print out with variables.

I am not trying to disprove these tests by any means, but I also do not want people to think that feeding verts to your blondi will basically starve them to death because they are going to lose fangs. Remember, we live in a place where theories become "facts" just because people misinterpret things. I am merely trying to show my end.

Maybe I just live in a place where the laws of nature don't exist. I have had some pretty strange occurences... a male blondi molting out of maturity (peni), an adult female blondi that molted in the walking position, another adult female that has caught her prey in midair, another blondi that picks up her waterdish and puts the "bowl end" against the glass, etc. I could just have strange luck...

The Sickness

Wow, that sounds really cool, Soulsick, with the amount of hands on experience you have. And I hear T. blondi's usually are more problematic with molting than most other species. Sounds like your studies are proving them wrong! Not only that, but I didn't realize that some pesticides can stay in an animals system for it's life. Thank you for the information, and I will now cease feeding wild caught animals to any of my T's. Perhaps I'll step up the feeding of the mice to the T. blondi. I'm already feeding 'him' more food to get him fat, and he's really fat right now. Kinda wobbles when he walks. Anyways, awesome feedback!

DanCameron said:

Perhaps I'll step up the feeding of the mice to the T. blondi. I'm already feeding 'him' more food to get him fat, and he's really fat right now. Kinda wobbles when he walks.

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Dan, just be carefull--It is easily possible for you to overfeed your T. There are issues of obesity and as you mention, loss of mobility. This also goes with fragility. If you have overfed it and its abdomen is nearly bursting and it decides to climb the walls of its enclosure it could be seriously injured when it falls. Spiders dont have complex brains. They will instinctively eat and eat, (as food in the natural world is few and far between), and won't necesarilly know when to stop.

Just my thoughts,
--Chris

Well... hold on there for a minute. A lot of people don't agree with power feeding. I just happen to be one that does do it. I have my reasons. PM me if you want the downsides and upsides to feeding.

My studies aren't proving anything at all. My studies are just what I am experiencing. You can feed yours mice, but don't feed them just mice. If you do, then do what I do. Feed your mice dog food, crickets (yes, crickets), etc, so your T has a balance of foods.

T. blondi does has more molting problems than other Ts while molting. PM me for this information too.

These Ts are also more sensitive than others in reference to humidity - you can PM me for this also.

Wild caught prey is always a bad idea, I mean, why even chance it? Food is so cheap.

Lastly, overfeeding may pose immediate problems. Just don't powerfeed because it seems fun. Ts can climb and an overfed climber can fall and burst, and then you will never eat peanut butter and jelly again. Mice may also be a threat to your T because it has teeth and claws.

Think of me as the guy driving the car in the desert on the commercials. "Professional driver on closed course. Do not attempt."

You see, I know what I am doing and can see what I am doing. It is easier for me to have the precautions and judge the situation because of my experience. I do not invite or shun the following my methods, but you need to test the waters.

The Sickness

Mr Ed said:

I've read numerous threads regarding calcium/magnesium dilemma and how it's are bad for T's. What do you feed your larger T's other than pinkies/fuzzies and large roaches to be able to satisfy their nutrional needs?

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I feed my Ts a variety of home grown insects, i.e. super worms, crickets and several species of Asian, African, Central and South American roaches - these all tend to fatten them up quite well. I've found this combo to be an excellent staple for most Ts but not a complete diet by any means. The larger ones (i.e. Theraphosa, Pamphobeteus, Xenesthis, etc.) get a variety of frogs, toads, lizards and geckos (no rodents) when possible and affordable. In fact, I am considering breeding my own house geckos for this purpose.

When you read up on the field work of some of the individuals (Rick West, Pierre Paillard, etc.) who have actually caught many of the larger Central and South American Ts, they state that they often found these Ts happily munching on a variety of frogs, toads lizards and geckos - this makes sense when you consider the simple fact that Latin America is home to the largest variety of reptiles and amphibians world-wide - not rodents. Further to substantiate this, both myself and other fellow enthusiasts have personally observed that the venom of NW Ts kills reptiles and amphibians considerably faster than it does rodents. Conversely, this also seems to be the case with OW Ts on rodents vs. reptiles and amphibians.

Most common mice and rodents (pertaining to the rat family) are not native to the Americas - they were initially brought over from Africa and Europe and became established, mainly in cities and urban/farming areas close to people.

Having said this, I personally try to feed my Ts a diet that resembles (as much as possible) to what they would normally eat in their native habitats. Mice, rats and other rodents do not make up the natural diet of NW Ts. Moreover, I find "pinkies" and any rodents for that matter, to be a poor source of protein for Ts. Pinkies may seem like a great, easy and cheap way to "put the weight on" but it seems clear to me that they are more fat matter than they are worth in protein and actual nutrients. All you have to do is read up on animal protein values and you will soon learn that insects (and the amphibians/reptiles that eat them), hold the highest protein and nutrient values - not rodents. Again, I have noticed that some of the OW species really like mice and other rodents and their venom does seem to be quite effective at killing them - which makes sense considering their native exposure to high rodent populations in Africa. Needless to say, it is not a bad idea to offer an occasional hopper mouse to some of the African "baboon" species.

I agree with refraining from feeding locally caught insects and verts - especially if you're not sure whether they may have been exposed to pesticides or not. But then again, the same could be said for many of the "feeder" reptiles and amphibians which you buy at the pet store because most of them are wild caught too! Therefore, properly feeding and hydrating feeder reptiles or amphibians is a very good idea - this provides much more quality to your feeding and assists in flushing out most of the chemical residues from pesticides and other toxic byproducts, prior to feeding them off. In fact, feeding/hydrating any feeder inverts/verts is certainly a worth while endeavor. Personally, I am not a proponent of catching prey items to feed your Ts, mainly due to the environmental impact this causes. The exception to this might be with certain species of toads in areas where you may have a tremendous over-population, i.e. certain parts of Australia and North America. NW Ts seem to be very fond of toads!

In any case, I hope this helps.