Milli Mating and Egg Laying Description.. WOW

Ok...
I just bought my girlfriend a pair of Tanzanian Red-legged Millipedes. While they were in my possession they mated. Before mating with the female, the male bent his head around towards his body and pushed his gonopods, which had just appeared and "inflated" seconds before, against his mouth. From what I have been able to find and read, it seems like he must have been transferring a spermatophore from his primary sexual organs to his gonopods. A day later the millipedes were belly to belly with the males gonopods erect and doing... something... to the female.

Now it really gets exciting... and very very strange!
I gave the milli's to my girlfriend Linda. She just called to report and describe in detail some unusual behavior being performed by the female. The female curled herself around into a question mark in a shallow depression in the soil. She then curled her tail-end around and deposited a poop into her legs. She used her legs like a conveyer belt and transferred the poop to just below her face, where she began to manipulate it... as Linda put it "like someone working on a pinch pot". After she did this for a while, she conveyed the now half destroyed poop back towards her rear. When it neared her tail she curled around and deposited a fresh poop anteriorally to the old, already manipulated poop. Now, here comes the kicker... she put the poop that she has already transferred up, manipulated, and transferred back down BACK INSIDE HER gut!!! Apparently this has been going on for a while now (my info is all coming over the phone) and many poops have been transfered, manipulated, re-inserted, and finally deposited onto the ground by the female.

I interpret the whole situation as follows...
- the female poops, transfers the poop to where she lays eggs from, and inserts a few eggs into it.
- the poop is rather ruffled and she wants to make it firm around her eggs again so she transfers it back to whence it came and used her gut muscles to reform it.
- of course before she does this she deposits a fresh poop so that she can lay another set of eggs!
- somehow she keeps track of what poop has eggs, what doesn't, what needs to be reformed, and what order she needs to keep all of these in along her conveyer belt legs.

WELL... what do you all think of all this!?! I think this is about the oddest set of behaviors I have ever heard about in the animal world... I am really blown away :?

-trygon

Linda sent me some sketches that show the whole process and I wanted to try and include them in my post...

Cool! Wish I could see that.

Wow...I've never actually come across a detailed description of the whole egg laying process, so this is very interesting! Sorry I can't be any help, but that is definitely an interesting routine! Millipedes do usually create a chamber made of "special poop" and the eggs are sometimes encased in dung, so this all goes along with what you've said, but still....what an amazing observation!
-Nick

Thanks for the input...

- I was pretty blown away by the discription I was getting from Linda. Some of the behaviors she described to me definately lay towards the weirder end of the spectrum of what I have heard of before (right up there with the fish that lives inside the bowls of sea cucumbers). Millis are turning out to be very interesting pets.
- I have been looking for other descriptions of milli egg laying behavior and can't find any. No web sites, books, biology papers, nothing. Does anyone out there know where I might be able to find some information?... or has nobody written about these things before?

Trygon

I've seen many species form capsules and they are made with the jaws partly, sent down for egg laying then returned for finishing but I've never seen one insert the entire capsule into it's mouth or anus as you describe.
Where did you get the redleg millipedes?
The millipede book has photos of different types of egg capsules and information on various egg laying techniques but not a pictorial on capsule formation. I don't think it would come across as much in photos...

The millis came from providence, they were labelled as Peruvian millipedes... they are definately the tanz red-legs though.
The female never put the capsule in her mouth... just moved the poop up towards her front, manipulated it (laying egss?) and then back towards her tail. I had trouble believing it when she re-inserted the capsule into her anus (whats it called in millis?)... but she did it several times... no question.. really unusual behavior.

By the way, what book are you refering to? I would like to get a basic text to millis (or a not so basic one) if a good one is out there.

-trygon

Follow this link to the Giant Millipedes The Enthusiast's Handbook:

http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/elytraandantenna/

I recommend Invertebrates Magazine too!

Did you get them at a pet shop or a show?

Trygon said:

The millis came from providence, they were labelled as Peruvian millipedes... they are definately the tanz red-legs though.
The female never put the capsule in her mouth... just moved the poop up towards her front, manipulated it (laying egss?) and then back towards her tail. I had trouble believing it when she re-inserted the capsule into her anus (whats it called in millis?)... but she did it several times... no question.. really unusual behavior.

By the way, what book are you refering to? I would like to get a basic text to millis (or a not so basic one) if a good one is out there.

-trygon

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I'd love to trade for babies or adults if you're interested in other millis (PM).

Trygon said:

I have been looking for other descriptions of milli egg laying behavior and can't find any.

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I keep AGBs, and have never seen anything like that with mine. I did find what I believe to be eggs in several fecal pellets, though. Here's a picture I took of one such pellet that seemed a bit more "loose" than their standard droppings (I don't think I fed them Mexican cooking . . . ).

In answer to questions about how I got the millis...

I was buying some waxworms at a petco (in providence RI) and there they were. They were listed as peruvian millis but I quickly figured out that they were tanz red legged. I usually don't buy from petco (I used to keep lots of fish and petco's fish are almost always unhealthy and they are willing to sell them regardless) but the whole reptile section at this one looked well cared for... amazingly. After I researched them, I bought the millis they had and then described to the guy in charge of herps exactly how to care for them in the future (I told him to include some leaves and soil and rotting wood rather then pure cocunut shreds). The guy took notes and everything... perhapse all petcos arent evil???

About trading for babies...

If young appear in any significant volume I would be happy to trade or sell some. I an eager to raise a few myself, but I've heard that a single female can produce a huge number of young... I will let you know if and when I have some to let go.

An update...

The female buryed herself under the soil after she finished with whatever it was she was doing with her poops. She hasn't been seen since. I'm thinking she might be making an underground chamber to continue laying eggs in... maybe we were just extremely lucky to witness the whole process above ground and now shes figured out where she is supposed to be. who knows.

Thanks everyone for all your input.
-trygon

IHeartMantids said:

I keep AGBs, and have never seen anything like that with mine. I did find what I believe to be eggs in several fecal pellets, though. Here's a picture I took of one such pellet that seemed a bit more "loose" than their standard droppings (I don't think I fed them Mexican cooking . . . ).

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Those certainly look like eggs... not that I know what milli eggs are supposed to look like but white and round makes sense of course. With the female red-legg though, the final products (the pellets that had been manipulated and then recompressed in the gut) were almost perfect pellets... not loose or unusually wet. Give them a bit of time and a few mistings though and perhapse they will weaken, fall apart around the eggs, and allow hatching millis an easy exit.

Did you get any millis from those eggs? I assume there is very little I can do but wait and see if I am going to get any young from all of this. If anyone knows anything I shopuld be doing to get young.. like seperating out the special poops, let me know.

-trygon

Trygon said:

Did you get any millis from those eggs?

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Nothing yet . . . the one thing I found online recorded four months between breeding and babies. Those eggs were after around three months, and it's been 6.5 months now. No babies yet. I've heard they'll be living subterranian, but I don't want to dig anything up for fear of hurting them.

IHeartMantids said:

but I don't want to dig anything up for fear of hurting them.

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Good plan. Everytime I try to interfere with nature I end up aborting the whole thing before I realize I have done anything wrong... Hence why I am not yet breeding tarantulas (I would be devistated if I messed that up), and why my walkingsticks aren't as numerous as the should be... :wall: