Has anyone had long term experience with these pill millipede species?

[Kada]

Always loved pill millipedes/pill roaches/isopods.

The millipedes I am interested in are from taiwan. We have 5 species (that I know of) in the country:

Mauriesia splendida
Hyleoglomeris aurata
Hyleoglomeris proximata
Hyleoglomeris sinuata
Hyleoglomeris vittata


Having read up a bit on them and where they are found in the wild, I am fairly confident on their climate needs. a few locations were collected in some of the hottest places in the country (Taitung county, which is where I live as well).

I am quite interested in learning more about their diet and breeding habits if anyone has kept any of these species

Google turns up some info on Hyleoglomeris from other countries, but I havent yet found much on the Taiwanese ones.

Appreciate any info and discussion

 

[Wolfram1]

Thai Giant Pill Millipedes

Hi! I'm super new to this forum and it's my first post, it's nice to meet you all

arachnoboards.com

some general speculations and info, perhaps some of the posters in this thread can help you

 

[Kada]

Thai Giant Pill Millipedes

Hi! I'm super new to this forum and it's my first post, it's nice to meet you all

arachnoboards.com

some general speculations and info, perhaps some of the posters in this thread can help you

Cheers. Thanks for the link, I have posted there as well. But these are a very different kind of pill millipede than those guys.

Other members of the Hyleoglomeris genus have been kept fairly well in captivity, which is why I am interested in these native species. but species specific experience is invaluable, there can e great variation within a genus as broad ranging as this one hoping to photograph and takes notes of wild ones, as well as get some first hand captive experiences from the global community. if things seems feasible, wouldnt mind buying some cb when they become available again.

for now just learning, brainstorming, observing etc.

 

[PillipedeBreeder]

Hello @Kada ,
I have seen some posts about the breeding of taiwanese Hyleoglomeris, e.g. Hyleoglomeris aurata. Not a whole lot of information, but they are kept on fermented sawdust (I would choose a kind made for rhinoceros beetles) with decaying leaves ontop, breeding seems rather easy. Unlike many tropical members of that genus.
As long as you keep them in similar temperature and moisture conditions to their habitat, it should be rather simple. A taiwanese researcher who revisioned the taiwanese taxa recently told me they feed on decaying wood, therefore I personally would keep them like typical forest Glomeris species, but in a different temperature range of course.
There’s been another person on Arachnoboards who also looked for information on captive breeding of taiwanese species some months back.

I have no information on Mauriesia species unfortunately.

I see no reason why this shouldn’t work out.
The largest problem with pill millipedes is their catastrophical condition once they arrive in breeders hands, leaving to failures.
But since you can get them locally, it should be less of a worry.

Best regards

PS: keep me updated on breeding please!

 

[Kada]

Hello @Kada ,
I have seen some posts about the breeding of taiwanese Hyleoglomeris, e.g. Hyleoglomeris aurata. Not a whole lot of information, but they are kept on fermented sawdust (I would choose a kind made for rhinoceros beetles) with decaying leaves ontop, breeding seems rather easy. Unlike many tropical members of that genus.
As long as you keep them in similar temperature and moisture conditions to their habitat, it should be rather simple. A taiwanese researcher who revisioned the taiwanese taxa recently told me they feed on decaying wood, therefore I personally would keep them like typical forest Glomeris species, but in a different temperature range of course.
There’s been another person on Arachnoboards who also looked for information on captive breeding of taiwanese species some months back.

I have no information on Mauriesia species unfortunately.

I see no reason why this shouldn’t work out.
The largest problem with pill millipedes is their catastrophical condition once they arrive in breeders hands, leaving to failures.
But since you can get them locally, it should be less of a worry.

Best regards

PS: keep me updated on breeding please!

Excellent, thanks very much for that. For the time being, that shall be the plan for substrate

Temperature is something i wonder about, and am curious if it varies within the same species. according to the collection areas in the paper below, they have been collected in cooler sub tropical/temperate places in the mountains. but have also been collected in one of the hottest areas in the country (Jhiben Forest Park in Taitung county). This area of Taiwan also gets something called "burning winds" which comes down the mountians and creates ultra hot and wet weather sometimes. The Lanyu/Orchid island area is also tropical and quite hot. I assume they would escape this via burrowing down, perhaps being nearer streams?

Summers are indeed the worry as it gets quite hot sometimes, so I will keep reading for another couple months before finding someone with them for sale. Anything that happens I will post in this thread

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283612103_Pill-Millipedes_Glomerida_Diplopoda_In_Taiwan

 

[Kada]

Update @PillipedeBreeder

I obtained some Hyleoglomeris vittata (according to the seller). Just got 7 and will see how they manage summer. Not sure the origin of their breeding group. They range from lowland tropical forest up to the freeze line here.

I just got home, so will setup an enclosure tonight. Getting some wood etc now.

Does anyone know if genuine mahogany leaf/wood is problematic for them? Lots of mahogany plantations around my farm and an unlimited supply or rotten debris.

They are found in conifer, deciduous, primary and secondary forests that I found.

Some pics.

More pics later. Pretty excited, hopefully I get their care right.

About 12mm

 

[Kada]

I was waiting to go to Toroko National Park to try and photograph some wild Hyleoglomeris but the past week ish have had hundreds of earthquakes and the landslides kind of canceled those roads for us haha.

So now I am down in Jihben National Forest area in Taitung. just sprained my ankle haha. Not a lot of luck. But here is a habitat shot of Hyleoglomeris proximata. If I can walk with crutches, we will be checking out some forests along the road way at least and post pics of there. Fingers crossed!

Taitung County, Taiwan. Approx 200-300m at base of those mountains.





Next month hope to head to Kaohsiung in search of Hyleoglomeris sinuata

 

[Kada]

Couple better habitat pics. We went to the GPS coordinates we had for where this species was found. Very nice area. Looked for an hour or so but found none. Loads of other stuff, but not the target. Will go back soon when can walk around more for sure! Good signs we found loads of other millipedes, centipedes, isopods etc. A blind snake. Area seems pretty good!

Meanwhile my CB H. vittata have not seen since putting them in their enclosure. Might need to wait for loads of babies for more pics. Only bought 6

 

[PillipedeBreeder]

Hello @Kada ,
seeing the coco fiber substrate on your pictures, it seems like they weren’t kept good by the seller. Best of luck for you.
These taiwanese Hyleoglomeris sinuata should be similarly easy to breed like some european Glomeris in my opinion.

Best regards

 

[Kada]

Hello @Kada ,
seeing the coco fiber substrate on your pictures, it seems like they weren’t kept good by the seller. Best of luck for you.
These taiwanese Hyleoglomeris sinuata should be similarly easy to breed like some european Glomeris in my opinion.

Best regards

Cheers. Indeed that would be bad if housed in coco fiber. For clarification, my above pics were taken in coco for photo purposes. That's not how they were housed by the breeder, nor how they are housed now. It was simply for transporting across the country on the train haha, and I took some pics then and at home before rehousing them.

Here is a pic of the vendor enclosure at the insect fair (can see the fair here: https://arachnoboards.com/threads/taiwan-international-insect-exhibition.366536/ )

they were the only ones breeding pill millipedes of any sort there, and could see adults, babies etc. a good sign, even if not the best setup (?). I regret not getting better pics, this is the only one I took. And not sure their display tank is the best or even their norm, but this is what they housed them in at that time of the show (note clay based substrate and loads of airflow).

Outside of wanting to photograph wild specimens, my other main goal was to see where these guys live in the wild. Get a better understanding of the habitat through first hand going there. This has made me pretty much completely rethink my setup these couple days. I think I have done it all wrong now! So to be clear and display my mistakes, also want to show pics of my improper enclosure, which I will be changing this week when I can drive again

My enclosure now is using a main base media of flake soil (I believe that us the English word?). A very very black fermented soild for beetle larvae, bought from beetle breeders. My thinking was, as a minimum, this is safe. And it might work well to cut real soil with to loosen it up (I am a farmer at hard, pardon my ignorant mistakes in this sense). I got a bunch of leaf litter, from dead to nearly compost level, riddled with fungi, and some wood of the same level of "rot". I steamed it for an hour to get rid of at least other macro fauna. Mixed well with the flake soil. Placed into small glass tank. Originally much bigger, but iblater downsized to what the pic is now.

My preliminary thoughts on why my setup is not suitable so far:

1. Almost entirely organic based substrate. Flake soil (composted wood) and other decaying media. Namely leaf and wood.

2. Lack of actual soil, that is to say mineral/silt/clay based I am thinking now, based on the breeders opinions and the wild locations, more clay based soils are likely extremely beneficial.

3. The substrate is very loose. Being organics based compost. Hard to make "permanent" structures. Ie. Tunnels. Also doesn't hold moisture as well. Perhaps this makes stress in the sense they need to move more to find moisture rather than just sit comfortably and move to feed, breed etc.

4. Although the top is full mesh, there is little cross ventilation, which is actually quite an important note in Taiwanese forests. we have LOTS of airflow (wind here is no joke) and constant humidity, whilst also having light.

This makes me think harder. Lots of airflow, lots of UV sterilization on surface, generally a clay based soil media with a shallow leaf litter layer. This all makes me think maybe a mineral based substrate is more suitable, allowing drainage (lots of rocks in soil here due to landlsides and torrential rains) and probably even some ventilation down below somehow. Then a gradient of worm styled poop on top of clay soil followed by heavily composted organics and wood/leaf litter on top. My thinking is they may want to "migrate" between places. Allowing airflow also allows different myco species outside of the usual mold.

Just some thoughts. Need to reiterate, I am completely new to this species and am just guessing at all of this. But would love to hear others' experiences as well. Especially if you guys think my logic is flawed in any way.

This week I plan to modify the substrate. I will steam some clay based soils from the forest near my farms, mix with some very composted material 90:10 ish, and let settle in the enclosure (let get rock hard, like how we get super heavy rains and the silt soils tend to become compacted). Will place some sticks and such in the soil while wet, then remove when solid to provide fake worm/termite/ant etc type tunnels they can make use of. Cover with a layer of the current leaf litter/flake soil combo i have going now then some decomposed wood. will aim for young wood or sap wood and bark, given the notes on field samples being collected under bark suggesting sap wood fungi may be important. Also realizing the roaches, termites, ants etc poop inside wood may be useful. I will collect loads of that frass/casting material within wood to add as well.

still thinking, but I feel this is likely the best course. I know it's a lot to read (my rambling), but better to be clear. makes it easier going forward for other new hobbiests like me.

Appreciate any pointers!

Current tank after buying these millipedes (flake soil/leaf/wood base)

 

[PillipedeBreeder]

Hey,

Here is a pic of the vendor enclosure at the insect fair (can see the fair here: https://arachnoboards.com/threads/taiwan-international-insect-exhibition.366536/ )

they were the only ones breeding pill millipedes of any sort there, and could see adults, babies etc. a good sign, even if not the best setup (?). I regret not getting better pics, this is the only one I took. And not sure their display tank is the best or even their norm, but this is what they housed them in at that time of the show (note clay based substrate and loads of airflow).

Outside of wanting to photograph wild specimens, my other main goal was to see where these guys live in the wild. Get a better understanding of the habitat through first hand going there. This has made me pretty much completely rethink my setup these couple days. I think I have done it all wrong now! So to be clear and display my mistakes, also want to show pics of my improper enclosure, which I will be changing this week when I can drive again

My enclosure now is using a main base media of flake soil (I believe that us the English word?). A very very black fermented soild for beetle larvae, bought from beetle breeders. My thinking was, as a minimum, this is safe. And it might work well to cut real soil with to loosen it up (I am a farmer at hard, pardon my ignorant mistakes in this sense). I got a bunch of leaf litter, from dead to nearly compost level, riddled with fungi, and some wood of the same level of "rot". I steamed it for an hour to get rid of at least other macro fauna. Mixed well with the flake soil. Placed into small glass tank. Originally much bigger, but iblater downsized to what the pic is now.

My preliminary thoughts on why my setup is not suitable so far:

1. Almost entirely organic based substrate. Flake soil (composted wood) and other decaying media. Namely leaf and wood.

2. Lack of actual soil, that is to say mineral/silt/clay based I am thinking now, based on the breeders opinions and the wild locations, more clay based soils are likely extremely beneficial.

3. The substrate is very loose. Being organics based compost. Hard to make "permanent" structures. Ie. Tunnels. Also doesn't hold moisture as well. Perhaps this makes stress in the sense they need to move more to find moisture rather than just sit comfortably and move to feed, breed etc.

4. Although the top is full mesh, there is little cross ventilation, which is actually quite an important note in Taiwanese forests. we have LOTS of airflow (wind here is no joke) and constant humidity, whilst also having light.

This makes me think harder. Lots of airflow, lots of UV sterilization on surface, generally a clay based soil media with a shallow leaf litter layer. This all makes me think maybe a mineral based substrate is more suitable, allowing drainage (lots of rocks in soil here due to landlsides and torrential rains) and probably even some ventilation down below somehow. Then a gradient of worm styled poop on top of clay soil followed by heavily composted organics and wood/leaf litter on top. My thinking is they may want to "migrate" between places. Allowing airflow also allows different myco species outside of the usual mold.

Just some thoughts. Need to reiterate, I am completely new to this species and am just guessing at all of this. But would love to hear others' experiences as well. Especially if you guys think my logic is flawed in any way.

This week I plan to modify the substrate. I will steam some clay based soils from the forest near my farms, mix with some very composted material 90:10 ish, and let settle in the enclosure (let get rock hard, like how we get super heavy rains and the silt soils tend to become compacted). Will place some sticks and such in the soil while wet, then remove when solid to provide fake worm/termite/ant etc type tunnels they can make use of. Cover with a layer of the current leaf litter/flake soil combo i have going now then some decomposed wood. will aim for young wood or sap wood and bark, given the notes on field samples being collected under bark suggesting sap wood fungi may be important. Also realizing the roaches, termites, ants etc poop inside wood may be useful. I will collect loads of that frass/casting material within wood to add as well.

still thinking, but I feel this is likely the best course. I know it's a lot to read (my rambling), but better to be clear. makes it easier going forward for other new hobbiests like me.

Appreciate any pointers!

Current tank after buying these millipedes (flake soil/leaf/wood base)

let me give you my thoughts on this. They are gonna be a little chaotic, but here they are:
using well fermented, dark FlakeSoil (or better BlackSoil) is the best option for the organic substrate.
It‘s been used in breeding various Sphaerotheriida and it‘s also been known to be eaten by plenty of Glomerida species.

I have started using local soil (clay-like), and most of my species do eat it a little here and there. I‘m sure it‘s a good addition to the enclosure, but not neccesary.

FlakeSoil does hold burrows well, when moist. Especially at the size range of these pill millipedes.
However, many pill millipedes do not burrow very deep. They will hide in the organic substrate/organic layer, deep under leaves, but they won’t dig down 20cm like some long-bodied millipede species into the substrate.
This is also equal to their natural habitats. Usually, forest floors in tropical countries are not covered in a deep organic layer. A few centimeters of leaves at most and then the strongly withered, inorganic soil.
Only at tree roots, rocks or logs, where wind and water can push up and collect leaves, deep leaflitter accumulates. As that is not always the case, a thin layer of leaves is absolutely fine for many species in their habitat.
Decaying logs will provide better possibility to crawl and eat deep into very soft wood.

Termite frass might be a good addition, but otherwise, unsterilized soft decaying wood and leaves should be enough, having all the neccessary microfauna needed.

I do 5-10cm of clay like inorganic soil, calcerous rocks and on top as many leaves as I can fit into the container, usually another 5cm of leaves and some FlakeSoil here and there (not a stable in my care). If you do 5cm of inorganic substrate, another 5cm of FlakeSoil and plenty of decaying wood and decaying leaves ontop, you should be breeding these very successfully in no time!
(According to my expectations and expertise).

Having good ventilation is certainly not bad, but you should use a deep layer of leaves ontop of the FlakeSoil atleast in parts of the enclosure, to make sure there’s places of high moisture and moist FlakeSoil(food) underneath.

I would not say Hyleoglomeris wander a lot, probably similar to Glomeris, a few meters at maximum in a night in situ.
There‘s no reason to assume they walk a lot or far distances in the night (main activity time), as usually food sources are spread out evenly on the forest floor.

Best regards

PS: there are no secrets to breeding many pill millipede species. For plenty of species, the reason why 99% of keepers fail to keep or even breed, is the combination of buying already half-dead, weak, abused wildcaught animals and then keeping them wrong, bad husbandry does the rest to have them never breed. It doesn’t apply to all, but to many species. Often (Thailand) Hyleoglomeris can be more tricky than other Glomerida such as the Rhopalomeris from the same countries, but there’s also exceptions to that.

 

[Kada]

Hey,

let me give you my thoughts on this. They are gonna be a little chaotic, but here they are:
using well fermented, dark FlakeSoil (or better BlackSoil) is the best option for the organic substrate.
It‘s been used in breeding various Sphaerotheriida and it‘s also been known to be eaten by plenty of Glomerida species.

I have started using local soil (clay-like), and most of my species do eat it a little here and there. I‘m sure it‘s a good addition to the enclosure, but not neccesary.

FlakeSoil does hold burrows well, when moist. Especially at the size range of these pill millipedes.
However, many pill millipedes do not burrow very deep. They will hide in the organic substrate/organic layer, deep under leaves, but they won’t dig down 20cm like some long-bodied millipede species into the substrate.
This is also equal to their natural habitats. Usually, forest floors in tropical countries are not covered in a deep organic layer. A few centimeters of leaves at most and then the strongly withered, inorganic soil.
Only at tree roots, rocks or logs, where wind and water can push up and collect leaves, deep leaflitter accumulates. As that is not always the case, a thin layer of leaves is absolutely fine for many species in their habitat.
Decaying logs will provide better possibility to crawl and eat deep into very soft wood.

Termite frass might be a good addition, but otherwise, unsterilized soft decaying wood and leaves should be enough, having all the neccessary microfauna needed.

I do 5-10cm of clay like inorganic soil, calcerous rocks and on top as many leaves as I can fit into the container, usually another 5cm of leaves and some FlakeSoil here and there (not a stable in my care). If you do 5cm of inorganic substrate, another 5cm of FlakeSoil and plenty of decaying wood and decaying leaves ontop, you should be breeding these very successfully in no time!
(According to my expectations and expertise).

Having good ventilation is certainly not bad, but you should use a deep layer of leaves ontop of the FlakeSoil atleast in parts of the enclosure, to make sure there’s places of high moisture and moist FlakeSoil(food) underneath.

I would not say Hyleoglomeris wander a lot, probably similar to Glomeris, a few meters at maximum in a night in situ.
There‘s no reason to assume they walk a lot or far distances in the night (main activity time), as usually food sources are spread out evenly on the forest floor.

Best regards

PS: there are no secrets to breeding many pill millipede species. For plenty of species, the reason why 99% of keepers fail to keep or even breed, is the combination of buying already half-dead, weak, abused wildcaught animals and then keeping them wrong, bad husbandry does the rest to have them never breed. It doesn’t apply to all, but to many species. Often (Thailand) Hyleoglomeris can be more tricky than other Glomerida such as the Rhopalomeris from the same countries, but there’s also exceptions to that.

Fantastic, thanks for writing that out!

I think I will keep the tank as is but will add some clay type soil, just scatter it around the soil and add more leaf litter on top. The flake soil I have I may be calling it the wrong name. Certainly still some peices of not fully composted wood bits in there. Dark brown and black. Will find some softer rotten wood as well.

The tank has a lovely fungal rich mature compost smell which seems good (not stagnant/anaerobic). But it does dry quick. Hopefully the leaf litter and clay will help retain moisture and buffer some evaporation.

It's getting hot now, which is my main concern.

The mahogany forest next to me has a thick layer of leaf litter. From fresh on top down to fully composted poop stuff on top of the clay soil. Near the bottom is a pretty solid layer completely colonized with white mycelia. I understand it's not possible to know the species, so might be a stupid question. But would you add this type of heavily fungus leaves as fresh food (I give it to isopods). Or should I stick with the further decomposed, lower layer?


Damn. Posted this in the morning but it didn't post. Hopefully it doesn't cut out certain text haha

 

[PillipedeBreeder]

Fantastic, thanks for writing that out!

I think I will keep the tank as is but will add some clay type soil, just scatter it around the soil and add more leaf litter on top. The flake soil I have I may be calling it the wrong name. Certainly still some peices of not fully composted wood bits in there. Dark brown and black. Will find some softer rotten wood as well.

The tank has a lovely fungal rich mature compost smell which seems good (not stagnant/anaerobic). But it does dry quick. Hopefully the leaf litter and clay will help retain moisture and buffer some evaporation.

It's getting hot now, which is my main concern.

The mahogany forest next to me has a thick layer of leaf litter. From fresh on top down to fully composted poop stuff on top of the clay soil. Near the bottom is a pretty solid layer completely colonized with white mycelia. I understand it's not possible to know the species, so might be a stupid question. But would you add this type of heavily fungus leaves as fresh food (I give it to isopods). Or should I stick with the further decomposed, lower layer?


Damn. Posted this in the morning but it didn't post. Hopefully it doesn't cut out certain text haha

Hello,
I would add the fungus leaves - if they aren’t interested in them, you can always take it out again. However since pill millipedes are known to eat Kinshi and mushrooms, it might be eaten as well.
I don’t think heat is a particular concern for them - but of course, don’t cook them. The forest floor, underneath or inside rotten logs and under leaves are always cool places.
I would worry about temperatures like 25 degrees for them however.

Best regards

 

[Kada]

Hello,
I would add the fungus leaves - if they aren’t interested in them, you can always take it out again. However since pill millipedes are known to eat Kinshi and mushrooms, it might be eaten as well.
I don’t think heat is a particular concern for them - but of course, don’t cook them. The forest floor, underneath or inside rotten logs and under leaves are always cool places.
I would worry about temperatures like 25 degrees for them however.

Best regards

Great, thanks! Will add the fungus leaves this week with the other stuff

I had to Google what "kinshi" meant hehe. Outside of egg dishes, it seems to mean spent (left over) beech based mushroom manure. That sound right? I have considered adding such spent mushroom waste (albiet it acacia and oak based) as we use it on scale in the farms for composting, but commercial operations tend to add a lot of added nitrogen and pH buffering substances. eg. Gypsum. I suppose I am over thinking things. They are, however, very much broken down. In the meantime I will stick to wild rotten wood. When I try the commercial stuff, I tend to test on cockroaches first, then isopods (sorry guys). These millipedes are my prized possessions for some reason. Probably just due to lack of experience.

Outside of the above rotten stuff. Do you add any commercial varieties of human food to the mix? Such as fruit, veg etc.

It's common practice here to add calcium to isopod and (regular) millipede enclosures. Usually cuttlefish bone, which i also add to most enclosures. Haven't added to the millipedes, was thinking the rock/silt/clay type soil should suffice in regard to minerals.

My worry with heat is we get a type of friction wind which is ultra wet, humid and hot. 40ish degrees and truly ultra wet (makes the walls drip with condensation). It's a bit of a unique thing in this region of Taiwan. I keep these guys on the concrete floor to cool them as much as possible, but our house is already about 29 at noon, 25 at the coolest during the night. I keep them in the coldest part of my house, with air movement and moisture. my temp gun broke, waiting on the new one. so I am jot 100% the temp in their soil, should eb cooler. This is my worry, however. especially in these burning winds we get sometimes. up to 48 hours intense heat. this is why I was thinking deeper substrate to try and buffer the temporary high air temps. still thinking

 

[PillipedeBreeder]

I had to Google what "kinshi" meant hehe. Outside of egg dishes, it seems to mean spent (left over) beech based mushroom manure. That sound right? I have considered adding such spent mushroom waste (albiet it acacia and oak based) as we use it on scale in the farms for composting, but commercial operations tend to add a lot of added nitrogen and pH buffering substances. eg. Gypsum. I suppose I am over thinking things. They are, however, very much broken down. In the meantime I will stick to wild rotten wood. When I try the commercial stuff, I tend to test on cockroaches first, then isopods (sorry guys). These millipedes are my prized possessions for some reason. Probably just due to lack of experience.

Hey,
Kinshi is compressed sawdust with additives, innoculated with a fungus, used to rear stag beetle larvae. Available in every good beetle shop in Asia.

I have fed small quantities of apple and zucchini in the past, but I have not done it often nor to all my specimens.

Best regards