Breathing Underwater Continutation

[EAD063]

found this link... read the first line of the description
http://www.heinemannclassroom.com/products/title.asp?id=1403457735 now I know I seem completly crazy but if you know your evolutionary history.... at one point in exsistence, all life...ALL life, occured underwater.... meaning absoutly NO life on land... scorpions were the first creature to inhabit land..... they were about 3 to 6 feet long!!! at this time the earths atmosphere was only about 5% to 20% oxygen and as time went on the scorpions became smaller and smaller (due to low oxygen supply 3 feet sucked up far too much than a tiny creature) also ... horshoe crabs...ARE anthropods meaning they are of a VERY (more than you would think) close relation to scorpions..... horse crabs have book lungs which allow them to breathe both on land and water..... some things from evolution just don't go away (for ex. some snakes who still have a "claw" on the rear of their body) ....any takers for a reply?

-i must edit and say although they were the first to reside on land..they were also the first to leave the water for short periods of time (to gain an advantage over prey).... so we technially owe some of our exsistence to theyse guys 500 million year old ancestors lol

 

[EAD063]

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/education/horseshoecrab/anatomy.html


Anatomy of a Horse Shoe Crab.... look familiar?

 

[Arachnophilist]

Nice piece of info there! thanks for posting it. can you imagine running into a 6' scorpion?

 

[EAD063]

not at all!!! i will search to find more info to try to further my evaluation... look up the horseshoe crab stuff..they are practically brothers

 

[Galapoheros]

Well, it's basically stuff I've thought about before. The first thing that came to mind was that I've heard of another theory about why things might be smaller and maybe getting even smaller than the giant fossils have shown (I'm waiting for someone to invent a time machine so I can go back and get one of those suckers). Some people are now thinking that the earth's gravity was much less millions of years ago. They recently realized that, due to the laws of physics, the large fossilized animals probably couldn't support themselves with their legs on the earth today because of their huge size and bone structure or exoskeleton. Just a theory but makes you wonder. So if I did go back and get one of those giant scorpions. I wouldn't have to worry about it getting out .

 

[Charlie_Scorp]

Scorpions were most certainly not the first creatures to venture onto land guys and I dont think this is a particularly contraversilal thing to suggest....

 

[EAD063]

Before you refute any evidence... do research smart guy

"Challenges of life on land and adaptations-Osmotic pressure
Marine Organisms are Isotonic with seawater
Fesh-water, and land organisms are hypertonic
Land organisms must take water in as fresh water rain
It is likely that organisms went through fresh water before taking on land."

"Arthropods apparently invaded fresh water as early as the upper Ordovician. The most impressive were the "sea scorpions", Eurypterids, which persisted through the Devonian"

 

[twirl and kill]

uh oh! ive seen these threads on arachnoboards before!..........they turn into a big arguement between different beleifs

 

[Charlie_Scorp]

I can see your point as that was a tad abrupt but you should also appreciate that someone new to arachnoboards is not necessarily new to evolutionary biology....far from it. Its 4.30 am over here so forgive me if I dont submit a retort this evening but I shall endevour to reply tomorrow.
I didn't mean to be rude at all and I apologise. I was just very suprised at your comments.
Chat tomorrow...

Ps. Im not sure what date of this month you joined but Im guessing it makes you a 'neebie' too so dont be so hard on 'US'.

 

[EAD063]

lol... but yes, some present species still hold parts that haven't completly evolved out of themsevles yet... for example a burmese python, I do belive the females maybe, have a small claw on the rear of their body that can be found if you manually seperate a couple of scales.. I belive it's a way of sexing.. Apparently it's part of a claw or leg system which failed and have almost made its way completely out.... It bothers me sometimes because I feel that it's a general feeling amongs our society that just because humans understand what is happening, we think that things are just the way they are and that's how they will stay... We are truely a species which faults through our own genius. Myself including lol.



bingo..hey I will erase my post from before, I just know that part for a fact about that... I have taken 5 biology classes in total all relating to the enviroment, aquadic science, theories of evolution, etc... Definently over 600 hours of study. I was refering more to your contributions more than join date.

ps, does anyone know more about the snake thing... I never was fond of those buggers... they are so strong for a smaller creature, weirds me out

 

[Charlie_Scorp]

I respectfully disagree. It is our ignorance that faults us.
Anyway, it is widely acknowledged in the literature that the early miriapods were the first terrestrial arthropods and there is a wealth of both older and contemporary papers that can demonstrate this. This is not an new concept.

Again...chat tomorrow.

 

[EAD063]

I believe we were on the same lines..... I like to think of us as the animals we are... if we remained less civilized and kept like our indingeous (horrible speller) people the world would be much more beautiful... and less of a pain in the butt. lol I guess we could blame in on the Romans.

 

[Galapoheros]

I can see your point as that was a tad abrupt but you should also appreciate that someone new to arachnoboards is not necessarily new to evolutionary biology....far from it. Its 4.30 am over here so forgive me if I dont submit a retort this evening but I shall endevour to reply tomorrow.
I didn't mean to be rude at all and I apologise. I was just very suprised at your comments.
Chat tomorrow...

Ps. Im not sure what date of this month you joined but Im guessing it makes you a 'neebie' too so dont be so hard on 'US'.

I can relate. It is a problem sometimes because people don't know you yet and it seems to be the nature of people to underestimate others. Not that this is the case in this particular thread, but it reminded me of it. I've been catching reptiles and amphibians for 40 years ...took herpatology in school. I joined a herp forum. On the first post I said, "I'm ready for an Alligator Snapping turtle. I've got the tank. Any recommendations on where to get them?" That's what profiles are for. But I didn't give a profile. They all assumed I was a 12 year old, and told me I was going to get my fingers bit off. They said things like, "Do you know how big those get?, Those get real big, you shouldn't get one of those., You know how dangerous those are?" When I said "tank", I was referring to a stock pond, haha. I mean I got hammered. It was kind of funny. But before I got over the hammering, I was saying...man, these dudes suck .

 

[EAD063]

Seeings how most everyone makes a point of checking this website once a day, I think we'll be friends in the end... If not we'll let our "bugs" duke it out haha.

 

[CopperInMyVeins]

I can relate. It is a problem sometimes because people don't know you yet and it seems to be the nature of people to underestimate others.

Haha, I had a similar experience when I first joined, because I was considering a Poecilotheria species as a first tarantula, I even made clear that I had previously kept various species of true spiders, myriapods, insects, all kinds of lizards, and had worked at an aquarium. Same thing happened, I was told how it would escape and climb up the wall, bite me, basically everything to say I wasn't prepared for the experience, it was a bit of a turn off, but also amusing. I still haven't gotten that Poecilotheria either, I guess I'd rather spend my money on other things right now.

 

[Arachno Kid]

being new to a forum sucks and making our first post sucks XD we just know we are going to make ourselves sound dumb

 

[JSN]

actually I found my first few posts were met with no unpleasantness at all...

 

[TheImperator]

This is a very interesting topic EAD. That sea scorpion you are talking about, I think I've seen it in "Swimming With Sea Monsters" that starred Nigel...i think thats his name. They look cool, I'd love to have one of those.

 

[kahoy]

Well, it's basically stuff I've thought about before. The first thing that came to mind was that I've heard of another theory about why things might be smaller and maybe getting even smaller than the giant fossils have shown (I'm waiting for someone to invent a time machine so I can go back and get one of those suckers). Some people are now thinking that the earth's gravity was much less millions of years ago. They recently realized that, due to the laws of physics, the large fossilized animals probably couldn't support themselves with their legs on the earth today because of their huge size and bone structure or exoskeleton. Just a theory but makes you wonder. So if I did go back and get one of those giant scorpions. I wouldn't have to worry about it getting out .

yeah, dont forget to take some giant crickets, you woudnt want your scorp to be hungry.. right?

and i would also say, they dont look like the same as the scorps by now, they have larger mouths. and a lot more freaking...

heres one

http://www.google.com.ph/imgres?imgurl=http://www.kidcyber.com.au/IMAGES/dinoseascorp.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.kidcyber.com.au/topics/dino_eras.htm&h=163&w=255&sz=10&hl=tl&start=4&tbnid=v4IReHaUYmO5DM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgiant%2Bscorpions%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dtl%26lr%3D

http://www.google.com.ph/images?q=sea+scorpions&svnum=10&hl=tl&lr=



and just a noob question, was this sea scorpion really the ancestors of our scorpions? because im wondering where they on the same family? i mean where the sea scorpions crustaceans? like crabs? not horseshoe crab, those crabs with paddles on the rear, sea scorps and crabs looks the same for me based on anatomy, they have claws, almost similar looking mouthparts, and that paddle on the rear.

and this tread will go long up to page 50...



edit:

LOL they are cousins... havent seen this page... lol dumb questions
http://tolweb.org/Arthropoda/2469

 

[EAD063]

Well yes, I assumed they were cousins because with expection to few creatures.. all animals have had drastic changes in the last 600 million years.. Like I said before, the relationship between the horshoe crab (which has few genetic ties to all crabs etc.) and scorpions are practically identical, even their mating routines are similar (latching on) Now if we could figure out the closest living decendent of horshoes/scorps... we could figure out whether or not the "book lung" system, has completly evolved out of the scorpions. At one point or another they must have had that system in my eyes... in response to "TheImp.." yes,I have seen a similar show about how the world started and thats where i got the 3 to 6 footlong scorps... I knew that decendants of anthropods were the first to make the move from water to land (VERY VERY unstable atmosphere at the time) but I didn't know about the huge "scorps" I figured that the DSC channel was maybe refering to the first animal of scale to inhabit the land.... I do know they were the first true predators...as other speices at that time lacked sight, touch, and all other senses... It's little know but for a good part of our wondeful earth.. ALL organisms were free floating objects.. I need to read more into this definently... but I really think there is a connection between horshoes and scorps that could either prove or disporve them being able to absorb water through either their skin or some other way.......... fiy, the book lung system bares a definante resemblence to the bottom of scorpions