do Mice Cause Molting problems for WIld Ts??

[Ultum4Spiderz]

robc says a lot of things.

I'd love to see if this mouse thread is any more productive than the others... Anyone got an article or legit study to prove anything more than calcium isn't needed?

I really dont have enough adult Ts to test it out myself... gimmie a year or so I can test it out on LAsiodora Parahybanas... since I got 8 slings.. I Like My Ts A lot... but id risk a bad molt for the Benifit of the T Hobby
Lasiodora parahybana eat everything they can in the wild.... so it wouldnt be any different from a wild T...
I mean why not Test it out??? kinda like that show MYTHBUSTERS...

 

[Bill S]

I mean why not Test it out??? kinda like that show MYTHBUSTERS...

Not trying to offend you - but do you have the education/background to put together a scientifically valid test? One that actually filters out other variables and produces a statistically valid result? The big problem with this topic is that all input that I've seen has been purely anecdotal and speculative. It would be great to get actual tested information on this, but with a small number like 8 tarantulas in the hands of a relative beginner your "test" would not carry much weight.

And although I've only seen maybe two episodes of Mythbusters - it impressed me that despite the pseudoscientific hype, their "tests" are more entertainment than science.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Not trying to offend you - but do you have the education/background to put together a scientifically valid test? One that actually filters out other variables and produces a statistically valid result? The big problem with this topic is that all input that I've seen has been purely anecdotal and speculative. It would be great to get actual tested information on this, but with a small number like 8 tarantulas in the hands of a relative beginner your "test" would not carry much weight.

And although I've only seen maybe two episodes of Mythbusters - it impressed me that despite the pseudoscientific hype, their "tests" are more entertainment than science.

Clearly you overthink suck a test... it is a lot simpler then you think...the only problem is you gotta wait til a SPider is large enough to feed pinkie mice for this theory to hold any ground
baby Ts... arent large enough for a year or so...& you would need 2-3 groups of Ts to study.. & take a lot of feeding notes
Two Groups ---A Roach fed -- & half mice/ half roaches for variety
--possibly an all fed mice group ..but this is worthless since it does not mimic the wild diet of Ts at all

How Many Ts you got??? breeding a sack & keeping 20-30+ off spring would be plenty for a test
The thing is... Testing it with multiples species Is were it gets Very complex...
It would Educate many people & Great to film them for youtube feeding vids... MICE being massacred for the good of the T & the hobby hurray
Id love to put this myth to rest...but I cannot do it right now my SLings are too small 1"

 

[grayzone]

Clearly you overthink suck a test... it is a lot simpler then you think...the only problem is you gotta wait til a SPider is large enough to feed pinkie mice for this theory to hold any ground
baby Ts... arent large enough for a year or so...& you would need 2-3 groups of Ts to study.. & take a lot of feeding notes
Two Groups ---A Roach fed -- & half mice/ half roaches for variety
--possibly an all fed mice group ..but this is worthless since it does not mimic the wild diet of Ts at all

How Many Ts you got??? breeding a sack & keeping 20-30+ off spring would be plenty for a test
The thing is... Testing it with multiples species Is were it gets Very complex...
It would Educate many people & Great to film them for youtube feeding vids... MICE being massacred for the good of the T & the hobby hurray
Id love to put this myth to rest...but I cannot do it right now my SLings are too small 1"

.........ultum, you are too much lol.. i kinda see where you're going with your theory though, and it IS plausible. it wouldn't be hard at all to scientifically figure it out FOR ONE SPECIES of t, but lots of factors would have to be involved... temps, humidity,sex, size etc...... I , personally, dont put that much thought in it... i look at it as throwin a dog table scraps... not the best idea.. but as a once in a blue moon thing i dont see the harm

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

yeah its better off stick with dubias & save the time & hassel feeding mice really is only for entertainment... LOL
Unless feeding mice makes Ts Larger.. its pretty pointless... If it did make em bigger... ID Watch baby Mice get SLaughtered monthly...
Just Cuz Lasiodora Parhaybana/ A geniculata probably can east mice no issues... wouldnt make it true for normal sized Ts... half its size 4.5-5"

also as a Heads up DOgs fed a natural Raw Meat & bone diet can live way longer.. 17-27 years.... But how the heck are you gunna get raw meat?? LOL

 

[Earth Tiger]

OP just for your information, the so called Theraphosa blondi killing & eating snakes in the wild on camera was in fact a LP. I guess we are talking about the same video. I don't doubt my T. blondi and apophysis kill snakes in the wild but just for the record I have yet to see a real T. blondi kill snakes in the wild (staged or not) on camera. Also for those that doubt tarantulas could kill a snake, you may throw in something similar to test this claim - throw in a healthy 8+" Scolopendra species to your 4" T and you will be amazed to see how skillful your T to tackle preys with serpentine bodies. I would say a centipede is more vicious than a snake to a T because it is built to detect and eat other inverts but most snakes are not. A 2-3' snake stands no chance against a 10" TB or LP.

And regarding the high calcium intake leading to bad molt theory, it remains unproven and I guess it is hard to prove it with your experiments unless you can also control the diet of the mice to eliminate this variable.

---------- Post added 12-16-2011 at 04:26 PM ----------

yeah its better off stick with dubias & save the time & hassel feeding mice really is only for entertainment... LOL
Unless feeding mice makes Ts Larger.. its pretty pointless... If it did make em bigger... ID Watch baby Mice get SLaughtered monthly...
Just Cuz Lasiodora Parhaybana/ A geniculata probably can east mice no issues... wouldnt make it true for normal sized Ts... half its size 4.5-5"

also as a Heads up DOgs fed a natural Raw Meat & bone diet can live way longer.. 17-27 years.... But how the heck are you gunna get raw meat?? LOL

Well I found feeding them a variety of diets did seem to make them grow slightly bigger, approaching their maximum reported sizes, while a crickets only diet seems to produce smaller adult Ts. I feed mine crickets, centipedes, lizards and shrimps and prawns. For smaller species with 4-5" body sizes I skip the lizards and prawns.

 

[jbm150]

I feed mine crickets, centipedes, lizards and shrimps and prawns. For smaller species with 4-5" body sizes I skip the lizards and prawns.

You feed your Ts shrimp and prawns? How....different....

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

One can't prove whether calcium has adverse effects on a tarantula by feeding them mice more frequently. All that would be proven is whether or not mice causes problems and not what it is exactly about them that causes, or doesn't cause, an issue. To test for the effects of a specific mineral, one has to compare the effects of a diet that doesn't cause problems (the control) with the effects of a diet with a higher dosage of a specific mineral, in this case calcium. I would think the best way to test the hypothesis that calcium has negative effects on a tarantula would be to use pure calcium powder to dust the regularly fed food item. For example, one group is fed nothing but regular, healthy crickets and another group fed the same crickets dusted with pure calcium. Variables such as gender and species shouldn't matter too much for good results because all tarantulas pretty much have the same physiology.

 

[Bill S]

One can't prove whether calcium has adverse effects on a tarantula by feeding them mice more frequently. All that would be proven is whether or not mice causes problems .....

An excellent point. This is why, if we're going to actually learn anything from experiments, those experiments should be well thought out and done by people who understand what they are doing. I've seen figures quoted about how rich mice are in calcium, but since much of that calcium is locked up in the skeleton (which tarantulas don't eat) it may not be the most important aspect of a mouse diet for tarantulas.

 

[Tann]

For example, one group is fed nothing but regular, healthy crickets and another group fed the same crickets dusted with pure calcium. Variables such as gender and species shouldn't matter too much for good results because all tarantulas pretty much have the same physiology.

I'm not really too sure how much calcium powder would actually be ingested by the T. Perhaps gutloading the crickets with food that has raised calcium content, and then feeding the control population the same food if possible, but with no mineral alterations? Also, just throwing it out there but I'm not sure how much actually powdering a feeder would influence how the T feeds, but I think it'd be a good variable to eliminate. But I see what you're getting at as an idea.

So essentially you could alter the calcium content of the feeders, and thereby alter the amount of calcium the T.'s receive...but then you'd need to research how exactly the calcium is being processed in the feeders themselves to see if whether or not that physiological response is the cause and not the calcium directly...then again you could potentially try something with the water source alternatively.

Anyway, just my two cents.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

You feed your Ts shrimp and prawns? How....different....

Update to old thread!
very unique food items
I did feed my A brocklehursti , and B vagans a mouse and they are still healthy.
Due to bad smell of death I probably won't do it again anytime soon !

A brocklehursti got a lot bigger though last molt its 5.5-6" now and in pre molt

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Has anyone else got an experience feeding mice, or any controversial food to T's?

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

Before pairing, I fed both my MF L violaceopes and MF P regalis a feeder gecko to keep the males safe. The girls ate the geckos, and the males are still alive today.

I was going to do the same thing with my P muticus, but the burrow is quite deep, and I did not want to dig her up just for a bolus.

 

[Palespider]

I used to feed mice exclusively to my T. blondi, and LP's. It all stopped when an adult bit my brothers T. blondi, and almost killed it. Definitely not worth the risk. There's a lot of big feeder roaches that are available now, so there's no need, no point unless you're into the blood and gore...

And feeding pinkies always seemed a little barbaric. Helpless, blind, baby mouse... and what do you do with it if your T's reject it? Which sounds like is usually the case since pinkies don't move much, and don't incite the T's to attack.

Has anyone else got an experience feeding mice, or any controversial food to T's?

---------- Post added 03-05-2013 at 09:44 AM ----------

That's another thing the smell.... Only takes a few hours for the bolus to start stinking, and it's horrid. If they aren't nicely setting the bolus out where you can get to it... you're in for one stink of a mess XD

Before pairing, I fed both my MF L violaceopes and MF P regalis a feeder gecko to keep the males safe. The girls ate the geckos, and the males are still alive today.

I was going to do the same thing with my P muticus, but the burrow is quite deep, and I did not want to dig her up just for a bolus.

 

[Stan Schultz]

Read I'm new; looking for advice from experienced T owners.


Enjoy your little 8-legged "Better Mousetrap!"

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Read I'm new; looking for advice from experienced T owners.


Enjoy your little 8-legged "Better Mousetrap!"

a Quote: And, when feeding mice to tarantulas it is important to feed only very, VERY young mice, babies or slightly older, that have not yet learned to use their teeth as weapons.
Are small fuzzy mice considered very young?

 

[jigalojey]

I'm not buying it and Steve Nunn isn't buying it either, calcium thing is a myth and Mice are perfectly fine to feed, I do prefer feeding pinkies but a hopper mouse or a larger mouse would be understandable with a big 8 inch+ T that just molted.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I'm not buying it and Steve Nunn isn't buying it either, calcium thing is a myth and Mice are perfectly fine to feed, I do prefer feeding pinkies but a hopper mouse or a larger mouse would be understandable with a big 8 inch+ T that just molted.

Id say your right or my B vagans & A brock wouldn't have survived molt after feeding 1.5 years ago. B vagans is too small though, no more mice for it ever. Neither spider has got any mice since, only B dubia.
Once a year cannot hurt a Very large spider, I hear Hissers can break a Spiders fangs leaving it crippled.

 

[jigalojey]

Id say your right or my B vagans & A brock wouldn't have survived molt after feeding 1.5 years ago. B vagans is too small though, no more mice for it ever. Neither spider has got any mice since, only B dubia.
Once a year cannot hurt a Very large spider, I hear Hissers can break a Spiders fangs leaving it crippled.

I hear hissers can as well, only thing I would feed them to is a 9 in + T stirmi

 

[Poec54]

Id say your right or my B vagans & A brock wouldn't have survived molt after feeding 1.5 years ago... Once a year cannot hurt a Very large spider.

Tarantulas eat a certain amount of small vertebrates in the wild, calcium is obviously not an issue for them with molting. That's an urban myth that gets mindlessly circulated.