Genus Monocentropus

[FryLock]

Im pretty sure Citharischius is also fixed Steve in the Eumenophorinae, but you saying about aroboreal tendance im pretty sure i saw a picture of M.lambertoni on a cave wall or roof il have a poke about.

Edit: i can't find it now will look later my cd pile in hell .

 

[Steve Nunn]

Hi Bill,
Yup, also fixed in the Citharischius and strangely enough, the Thrigmopoeinae. Richard used this character in his OW cladogram as a synapomorphy for the (Harpactirinae(Stromatopleminae)).

Steve

 

[Steve Nunn]

im pretty sure i saw a picture of M.lambertoni on a cave wall or roof il have a poke about.

I know the image The interesting thing is in that species the scopulation does not seem anywhere near as extreme as in M.balfouri, which, hmm....., I think I've seen images of them (M.balfouri) in caves too

Steve

 

[FryLock]

I know the image The interesting thing is in that species the scopulation does not seem anywhere near as extreme as in M.balfouri, which, hmm....., I think I've seen images of them (M.balfouri) in caves too

Steve

Yup i just found another pic of M.lambertoni and thought the same thing M.balfouri if anything looks far more aroboreal pulled this from Andy's old book on the genus.

Monocentropus with a simple mound or short spur capped with spines for an apophysis and tappering simple embolus, also no dividing setae on the tarsal scopulae (on both sex's im guessing), but also has transverse/straight fovea the last one there could be intersting maybe?.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Monocentropus with a simple mound or short spur capped with spines for an apophysis

That's pretty interesting, I wonder how it looks compared to a lot of the mainland Eumenophorines with tibial apophyses...

and tappering simple embolus, also no dividing setae on the tarsal scopulae (on both sex's im guessing),

That's a typical Eumenophorine condition, but, also seen in a lot of Selenocosmiines.....

but also has transverse/straight fovea the last one there could be intersting maybe?.

No clue, I know that would seem to have no relation to the Stromatopelmines though, adding support to the current placement.

Steve

 

[FryLock]

Yes i did forget about shape of Anoploscelus fovea as well , i know well to be careful with "Baboon spiders" as Richard as warned in the past (after all the drawing's of Heterscodra there make the fovea look far less pit like for one) but i would think the info concerning the apophysis is probably on the money there, seems to be a lot Eumenophorine lacking apophysis completely (again like a another subfamily there once again).

 

[CedrikG]

Interesting conversation guys, I been asking myself a lot of question about this genus. Keep it going.

 

[FryLock]

Interesting conversation guys, I been asking myself a lot of question about this genus. Keep it going.

Ask them then Kirdec im about getting out my league here and Im not getting moults and dead spiders out jar's and the freezer at this time of the morning .

 

[FryLock]

How does this species geographically relate to the Stromatopelminae (particularly E.olivacea)?

Odd and random thought here Caralluma socotrana is found in Kenya as well as Socotra and nowere else.

 

[T.Raab]

Hi Steve,

How does this species geographically relate to the Stromatopelminae (particularly E.olivacea)?

Monocentropus is a genus with wide distribution. The orgin of M. longimanus is west Yemen on the boarder to Saudi Arabia. The Typelocality is very near of mountains and just 40 KM away from the coast. M. lambertoni is found on Madagascar. M. balfouri is endemic to Socotra Island, a small island south east from Yemen and north east from Somalia.

The distance between E. olivacea and M. bafouri is airline 2.500 Kilometer. The distance between M. balfouri and M. longimanus is airline about 1.300 Kilometer and between M. balfouri and M. lambertoni is about 3.500 Kilometer. And finally the distance between M. lambertoni and M. longimanus is airline about 4.000 Kilometer.

 

[surfer]

Monocentropus egg sac

Hi,
Is that a fixed egg sac??? If it is (which it looks like to me), how does the form of the eggsac differ from those in the Stromatopelminae???

Seeing this is very interesting, if this eggsac is fixed, then it may help to answer some phylogenetic problems in higher clades......RCG stated in his excellent work on Xenondendrophila gabrieli (jun. syn. to E.olivacea) that the character of retrolateral scopula on femur IV might be homoplastic (contra: Raven 1985) in the Eumenophorinae/Stromatopelminae in an old world cladogram, however a fixed egg sac might support Raven's original hypothesis.

Even if this is the case, then the medial spination on the metatarsi III/IV seen in the Ornithoctoninae/Harpactirinae/Stromatopelminae that Richard Gallon pointed out as apomorphic may then be homoplastic, perhaps a recent reversal in several "nearly" related groups.

Anyhow, must ask Richard about this.....

But yeah, if you could confirm the fixed egg sac thingio that would be good

Thanks,
Steve

Hi,
yes this species has a fixed egg sac - looks like cradle. It seems like the same cocoon of Citharischius crawshayi....cradle between two wals. Female is siting on it and is watching how high is from the floor so as to no´t mould. Stromatopelminae has their egg sac embedded intoo their residence.

David

 

[Steve Nunn]

Hi David,
Thanks for the info!! Then the form of the egg sac differs from that of the Stromatopelminae. How does this egg sac compare to that of the Harpactirinae fixed cocoons??

Steve

 

[T.Raab]

Hi,

How does this egg sac compare to that of the Harpactirinae fixed cocoons??

Harpactirinae make normally a fixed one that is not hanging. Mostly they are like in Stromatopelminae, worked in the retreat mostly more near the entrance.

 

[surfer]

Their egg sac embedded intoo their residence, but monocentroppus egg sac is climbing on the floor between two wals like cradle. I think monocentropus egg sac looks the same like Citharischius crawshayi cocoon.
View attachment 53277

 

[FryLock]

The Thrigmopoeinae (or at least Thrigmopoeus truculentus) also make these "crawshayi" style sac's hanging from two points at the sides.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Thanks for the answers, so the form of the cocoon is similar to the other Eumenophorinae gen. cocoon, plus that of the Thrigmopoeinae This form differs to that of those Africans with medial tibial III/IV spines and abdominal reticulations, that's totally in line with Richards cladogram then

But something that is of extreme interest, many of the characters that are apomorphic to the Eumenophorinae are also found in many Selenocosmiines/Thrigmopoeines too (loss of the herringbone pattern, sternal sigilla morphology, the apomorphic loss of the tibial spurs (in many Eumenophorines), undivided scopula on tarsi IV, more extensive placement of clavates on the tarsi, maybe more. Also interesting that the medial metatarsal spination is plesiomorphically absent in these groups.

Ta

Steve

 

[FryLock]

It would be interesting if that "Eumenophorinae type" fixed egg sac was to show up in a Selenocosmiinae genera to, still a good chance maybe will all the unknowns in still on both sides o' Bali.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Now you're talking Bill, it would not surprise me at all either frankly. However I think if we saw it, it might most likely occur in India somewhere, but this will depend on the placement of the Selenocosmiinae compared to the Thrigmopoeinae in a complete OW cladogram (RCG left them unresolved). I have no doubt the sister group to the Selenocosmiinae are the Eumenophorinae, but I would be most interested to hear Richard Gallon's thoughts on placement of the Selenogyrinae firstly

Steve

 

[brachy]

Endemic species from Sokotra: Monocentropus balfouri
Summary of topic:
Writer: David Štastný
Sklipkan, Journal 2 in year 2001.

‘’ A climatic, geographic and geologic data of the island Socotra are presented. Description, of habitat M.balfouri is included. M. Balfouri seems to be very plastic spider, which tolerates a broad spectrum of temerature (10-36 deegres of Celsius).
Keeping and breeding: Author used terrarium 29x24x20cm whit live plants and shelters from kork bark. Spiders were fed on crickets, grasshoppers and cockroaches. Matting was uncomplicated and female constructed an eggsac after 2 months. The egggsac was removed after 1,5 months and contented 35 nymphs. Artificial incubation was chosen and after 15 days the nymphs were moulted. They were replaced to the individual cages whit Lignocel. Unfortunately they were in stadium Nymph II. Mortality was very high and only 1 spiderling was obtained. ,,

I red all text in Cech. It is very interesting.
Some interesting things:
This spiecies live in Socotra under rocks. They make deep holes. They find lotf of holes where was only exuvie of spiders. They think: The spider will go the new hole after the molt. When i have more time i will put there more information from this topic.

 

[zLOST]

molted today...