mouth discharge, the bad kind.....

[Guy]

And mine...

 

[bodisky]

Try these links for autopsy pics. Microscopic etc. The many nematodes in the microscopic field are what is usually found in the mouth goo of infested T's.

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bodiskyme/album?.dir=/Bug+photos-Rhys

and

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bo...f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bodiskyme/my_photos

Kerry
RIESM

P.S. A lot of pics are done using polarized light. It helps illumination and defines structure. It also helps in identifying necrotic tissue. Also look in the past ATS Forums. Several articles there as well.

 

[manville]

nice pictures....grosss

 

[xanderTluv]

Originally posted by bodisky
Try these links for autopsy pics. Microscopic etc. The many nematodes in the microscopic field are what is usually found in the mouth goo of infested T's.

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bodiskyme/album?.dir=/Bug+photos-Rhys

and

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bo...f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bodiskyme/my_photos

Kerry
RIESM

P.S. A lot of pics are done using polarized light. It helps illumination and defines structure. It also helps in identifying necrotic tissue. Also look in the past ATS Forums. Several articles there as well.

I'm having trouble viewing the pics, I get this message- The File You Are Looking For Is Inaccessible. I'm really curious.

 

[Immortal_sin]

I think you have to be signed into Yahoo with a Yahoo user name to view it.

 

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by Immortal_sin
I think you have to be signed into Yahoo with a Yahoo user name to view it.

I don't think that's it. I logged out and signed back and all that stuff but I still got the "you don't have permission" for the pics.

 

[MizM]

Me too!

I have found phorid flies in the dirt in my houseplants. I just can't seem to get rid of them! Horrid flies!

(Chip, LOVE the avatar!!)

 

[bodisky]

Originally posted by Code Monkey
I don't think that's it. I logged out and signed back and all that stuff but I still got the "you don't have permission" for the pics.

Well BOOGERS!! I can send as a group to view in an email if anyone wants. Just let me know at my bodiskyme yahoo addy or PM me.
Kerry
RIESM
P.S. There is lots more if you have the stomach for it.

 

[Rhys]

Originally posted by metallica
the major cause are Phorid flies.

Wait a minute...how did you know that? We've been trying to figure for months how the worms get inside the tarantula.

Tell us.

Rhys

 

[metallica]

the flies cause the spreading of the worms, how they get in the spider, i don't know

 

[MizM]

Originally posted by bodisky
Agreed. No evidence to my knowledge of phorids transmitting nematodes. Crickets are excellent suspects.
At this point it is hard to say if they are the nematodes sold for agricultural pest control.
We have had limited success with a treatment of Cipro using DMSO as a piggy back carrier. I am treating one T now. So far she has survived longer but has not resumed eating although she does not look starved. She drinks water as normally as the other T's. I have tried this same treatment on other afflicted T's and it failed miserably. However by the time I received the T's the condition was well advanced. Honestly I think the treatment needs to be a combination of antibiotics and antihelmenthics. Its just that the latter is harder on the T.
Gotta run, foal coming tonight...
Kerry
RIESM

Kerry, was wondering if you administer the meds orally. Have you experimented with injections? I'm thinking that a shot in the abdomen wouldn't be harmful to the T, done correctly.

 

[Ultimate Instar]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried to infect a T using phorid flies? That is, putting in some flies in the cage of an infected T, taking out the flies and putting them in with a healthy T, then seeing if the second T develops the infection. Basically, has anyone tried a Koch's Postulate experiment? I can imagine a lot of ways to mess up the experiment and get an inaccurate result. It's probably a difficult experiment to run so if no one has tried it, that's understandable.

By the way, has anyone put a healthy T into the cage of an infected T? (After removing the sick T, of course.) Does the second T develop the disease? It _probably_ does, but parasites can have complex lifecycles that require multiple hosts. It's also pretty harsh on the healthy Ts that will end up dying in a gruesome fashion.

Just some of my random thoughts while I goof off and avoid working on my taxes.

Karen N.

 

[bodisky]

Originally posted by MizM
Kerry, was wondering if you administer the meds orally. Have you experimented with injections? I'm thinking that a shot in the abdomen wouldn't be harmful to the T, done correctly.

Ah "correctly", therein lies the rub. For most hobbyists this would be difficult and out of the question. Some of my concerns would exposure of and hopefully subsequent healing of the injection site and damage to organs from the needle path. Risky. Very risky. When we are talking about nematodes these injections would have to be location/target specific. The benefit of an injection is questionable and complicated when the subject is T physiology. But hey, as a last resort? Who knows? Also, some hobbyists may not be able to obtain the needle, syringe and meds. RIESM cant provide that as we are not vets and of course there are the liabilty issues etc, etc. We try to keep our solutions hobbyist friendly. Very good question though and one that we occaisonally entertain but quickly abandon. But wouldnt it be great if a "shot in the butt" turned out to be the solution?
Kerry
RIESM
P.S. Did you get my email I sent last night?

 

[bodisky]

Originally posted by MizM
Kerry, was wondering if you administer the meds orally.

Oops forgot to answer that part....
Yes and no. I paint the mouth and chelicera areas. A bit sloppy right now. I still have ligament damage when I broke my arm in October. ARRGH!
Kerry
RIESM

 

[Rhys]

Originally posted by metallica
the flies cause the spreading of the worms, how they get in the spider, i don't know

Aren't nematodes present to some extent in dirt, or organic substances we may use as substrate?

Also, there are certain species of nematodes that are harmful to arthropods in general.

It's interesting stuff.

 

[Martin H.]

Originally posted by Rhys

Aren't nematodes present to some extent in dirt, or organic substances we may use as substrate?

yep, e.g. see:

• ŠPITZER, L. (2003): Danger from leaf litter. Sklípkan 8(3): 94 & 107.

all the best,
Martin

 

[The_Phantom]

Well, now I think I know what I lost my pinktoe to all those years back....damn. I had to freeze her too. Sorry for your loss.

 

[bodisky]

Originally posted by Rhys
Aren't nematodes present to some extent in dirt, or organic substances we may use as substrate?

Also, there are certain species of nematodes that are harmful to arthropods in general.

It's interesting stuff.

Hi Rhys!
Here is a fairly decent link on nematode life cycles. Very basic. I think that an even more pertinent question would be how they enter the phorid IF they are indeed carriers. Some of these buggers, meaning worms, are huge in microscopic terms. The infectious juve stages vary in size. Some adults can be seen with the naked eye. Its adults where the eggs come from....gee...I have this visual of a phorid flying around with a worm almost as big as it is!!! Sorry that is funny to me!!

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cach...nems_5.htm+nematode+life+cycle&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

For all those reading this, most of the autospy pics were only possible through a generous donation of a T from Rhys Brigida, President of the ATS. It was in this particular T that we discovered nematodes present inside the tissue of the chelicera. We now believe that this is what causes the "fang lock down" that is seen in such afflicted T's. This was all thanks to Rhys's quick thinking!
Still cant thank you enough Rhys!
Kerry
RIESM

 

[MizM]

Great job Rhys! Take note Arachnofriends, when you have mysterious T deaths, DON'T TOSS THE BODIES!! PM bodisky right away and donate them to research!!

Re: Injections
Ahhh, good thought about a hobbyist friendly cure! My mom is diabetic, so I have needles readily available, and am proficient in giving injections. My thoughts on injecting the T would be JUST UNDER the skin of the opisthoma. Of course I'm SURE I could do it correctly, but if I had to do it to one of my beloved Ts.... YEAH RIGHT! I was under the impression that the entire system was affected with bqacteria when there was a nematode infestation. Does it seems to be isolated to the digestive tract?

Yes, I did get your e-mai, would love ALL of the pictures. I want to share them with my vet!!

KERRY - THANK YOU FOR YOUR UNDYING PATIENCE WITH ALL OF OUR QUESTIONS AND FOR UNDERTAKING THE ENORMOUS TASK OF TRYING TO FIND A CURE FOR 'TODES!! YOU HAVE MY LIFETIME GRATITUDE!!!

 

[xanderTluv]

Originally posted by Rhys
Aren't nematodes present to some extent in dirt, or organic substances we may use as substrate?

Yes they are present in soil and other organic materials. But these are most likely free-living nematodes and are not harmful. I just found some about 3 weeks ago in one of the water dihes. I immediately sent Chip a PM to clarify, and he agreed that they are most likely free-living! I just cleaned the water dish and took no further action!