Poecilotheria communal question

[gobey]

I'm still discovering the wonders of owning a couple of pokies.

My "experiment" was to get a couple of regalis... And see what all the fuss is about.

They're a blast to watch.

I used to have no interest in the genus. Now there's 4 other species I'd like to own one day when my little ones grow up.

Let's see how that goes first.

 

[pokie99]

They really are very interesting and beautiful. And the more I read about them, the more I like them. I'm also hoping to breed the species I have one day, especially the smithis (unless they are hybrids) which I read is near extinction in the wild. I don't have much species of pokies now - only metallica, regalis and smithi but am also hoping to collect all the species from the genus which are available in the hobby.

 

[Angel Minkov]

They really are very interesting and beautiful. And the more I read about them, the more I like them. I'm also hoping to breed the species I have one day, especially the smithis (unless they are hybrids) which I read is near extinction in the wild. I don't have much species of pokies now - only metallica, regalis and smithi but am also hoping to collect all the species from the genus which are available in the hobby.

I think smithi are easy to breed. They don't pose much interest to me from a conservation standpoint, because the BTS has already tried helping the genus, but the Indian government didn't respond well to that. I think smithis live in an unprotected zone in India so their extinction is imminent, but at least they will be kept in the hobby and possibly reintroduced.

 

[pokie99]

That's why they need to become more popular in the hobby. The only thing I hate about fast growing species is that they live shorter lives and you have to act fast in terms of breeding. They're not like the grammostola or brachypelma where you can plan a breeding for years. Great genus, though.

 

[Angel Minkov]

Just because they arent common in our country doesnt mean people dont breed them like geniculatas They are being actively bred in europe as well as America.

 

[Pokie Master]

The thing with communals that I've noticed is that you basically have to keep food in there constantly. The best communal hands down is monocentropus balfouri. Any of the poecilotheria there is always a chance. Biggest parts are having enough space that they aren't crawling over each other but not too much space as to where they can create territories. True there are those that usually end badly but also what were all the conditions that played a part in that? All of my communals seem to grow much faster than the same species kept solely. Again just my experience but it seems that way. My communals pretty much always have food in them and I've so far only had 1 cannibalism. And that was a regalis. At that point was early in my experience and I did not have them fed as well as I do now. As far as those who say they are pets... Yes and no... I also look at this as science just as much as pets. Sure I'm upset when I lose one! Point being it can be done. My regalis now has 13 in a communal with regalis from 3 diffent sacs and different sizes now. There are no issues. Sure that can change... But it can be done.

 

[Angel Minkov]

Not all Pokie species are equally 'communal'. Some do better, some do worse.

 

[Pokie Master]

Not all Pokie species are equally 'communal'. Some do better, some do worse.

I totally agree with that. Some like ornada are not at all. Some others are hit or miss. And some given the right conditions do extremely well. It's important people always know that there's always a chance... For bad or good.

 

[Poec54]

My regalis now has 13 in a communal with regalis from 3 diffent sacs and different sizes now. There are no issues. Sure that can change... But it can be done.

Most Poec group cages start off well (there are no communal Poec species), it's down the road when things often go wrong. Too many people assume that after 6 or 12 months they're out of the woods.

There's a serious drawback to having food constantly available: in a group cage there are often some in premolt or molting, and in peril from being killed by prey. The flipside is that if you don't feed the hungriest ones, they could attack the molting ones themselves. Another thing overlooked by most people is that if one panics, they could all start running, and you could have a mass escape. There's a lot of group dynamics that come into play that the average person overlooks.

 

[Blue Jaye]

Should we take risks like that with species that are going extinct in the wild ? Do we have enough genetic lines in
the hobby to keep these species going ? Inbreeding can only go so far before there are genetic changes , and not for the better I would think . I don't think inbreeding should be done IMO ? I'm not saying people are only keeping communal set ups with
the same bloodlines . I'm saying is it worth it when the risk of losing a T is quite high . Just another point of view I'm not giving anyone a hard time . I'm just throwing it out there .

 

[Pokie Master]

Most Poec group cages start off well (there are no communal Poec species), it's down the road when things often go wrong. Too many people assume that after 6 or 12 months they're out of the woods.

There's a serious drawback to having food constantly available: in a group cage there are often some in premolt or molting, and in peril from being killed by prey. The flipside is that if you don't feed the hungriest ones, they could attack the molting ones themselves. Another thing overlooked by most people is that if one panics, they could all start running, and you could have a mass escape. There's a lot of group dynamics that come into play that the average person overlooks.

I can agree with some of that also. Depends what for food also. Dubia won't eat a spider in molt... And yes once you have poecis maturing your in trouble and should have them pulled. Your well respected and know what your doing as do I. Not starting any arguments here. People are too quick to assume you are or get way too up tight about what someone else says.

 

[Poec54]

I can agree with some of that also. Depends what for food also. Dubia won't eat a spider in molt... And yes once you have poecis maturing your in trouble and should have them pulled. Your well respected and know what your doing as do I. Not starting any arguments here. People are too quick to assume you are or get way too up tight about what someone else says.

It's just that some people are so adamant about portraying group cages as a panacea, and they're not. These people are usually in their first year of doing it. In the wild, one or more can leave when things get tense or competitive. In captivity the forced confinement is unnatural, and when things heat up, it can easily escalate to violence. Again, another thing most people are oblivious to.

As far as roaches, some tarantulas won't eat them, my Poecs won't.

 

[BobGrill]

Funny you should say that. I have one female regalis that likes them, the rest don't.

 

[Angel Minkov]

Should we take risks like that with species that are going extinct in the wild ? Do we have enough genetic lines in
the hobby to keep these species going ? Inbreeding can only go so far before there are genetic changes , and not for the better I would think . I don't think inbreeding should be done IMO ? I'm not saying people are only keeping communal set ups with
the same bloodlines . I'm saying is it worth it when the risk of losing a T is quite high . Just another point of view I'm not giving anyone a hard time . I'm just throwing it out there .

Threre's nothing we can do about that. We cant help the indian wildlife if the government doesnt allow us. I wanted to do something about all this and even made a school project and sought help from my teacher, but ultimately I decided I should work on preserving them in the hobby rather than trying to bust a concrete wall with pebbles.

 

[pokie99]

Threre's nothing we can do about that. We cant help the indian wildlife if the government doesnt allow us. I wanted to do something about all this and even made a school project and sought help from my teacher, but ultimately I decided I should work on preserving them in the hobby rather than trying to bust a concrete wall with pebbles.

I made a school project about tarantulas, too. I didn't talk about an exact genus but for tarantulas in common. There is no point in blasting them some creepy genus no one has heard of and asking them for help in saving it. Most people don't like everything else except fluffy and cuddly dogs and cats and call themselves "animal lovers". At the same time, they are terrified by any spider, snake, worm, insect, etc. and kill them with no apparent reason. Again, most of the people care only about themselves and their own survival and prosperity. There is another type of people who have a bit better understanding of the world. They care more about the others and put themselves in their place. Some of these people care for dogs and cats, too. But when it comes to the "creepy" and "disgusting" everything else, they know nothing and therefore are scared. How can you think a person who doesn't know the difference between a reptile and a tarantula would be concerned about the conservation of a single genus? That's why they should first be shown what tarantulas, etc. really are and how amazing they are. I don't think this is really possible with most people because it's really difficult to change a grown person's way of thinking. With smaller children, the problem comes from the parents. Even if you convince a 7 - year old that "bugs" aren't scary, when it goes home, it will again be surrounded by cruelty and hatred towards them. I have been fascinated particularly by insects (spiders come next) all my life and have tried to show others my point of view many times. As a result, I was hated and bullied (I'm sure that most of the people here have been in this situation). I'm sure that in the future people will start to admire and not harm everything strange to them, but that's way ahead in time. For now, what we can do is to show them the real side of these animals and educate them.

---------- Post added 03-31-2015 at 08:50 AM ----------

Sorry, I got carried away. I'm just mad but that won't change anything. Thank you all for making this tread into a very intriguing discussion!

 

[Angel Minkov]

It all depends on how you make the subject and bring forth the subject. No genus is as endangered as Poecilotheria (I think), and none of the other genus' im interested are ebdangered.

 

[Ellenantula]

Henry Beston quote

I made a school project about tarantulas, too. I didn't talk about an exact genus ... I'm sure that in the future people will start to admire and not harm everything strange to them, but that's way ahead in time. For now, what we can do is to show them the real side of these animals and educate them.

I guess most people know this quote, but it has been my favorite for at least 20 years, so I'll just re-share it:

“We need another and a wiser and perhaps a more mystical concept of animals. Remote from universal nature and living by complicated artifice, man in civilization surveys the creature through the glass of his knowledge and sees thereby a feather magnified and the whole image in distortion. We patronize them for their incompleteness, for their tragic fate for having taken form so far below ourselves. And therein do we err. For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older and more complete than ours, they move finished and complete, gifted with the extension of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren, they are not underlings: they are other nations, caught with ourselves in the net of life and time, fellow prisoners of the splendour and travail of the earth.”
― Henry Beston, The Outermost House

Your project and optimism reminded me again of this quote -- love your project idea.

 

[pokie99]

Yes, but what were you expecting to achieve by making a school project on this subject?

 

[Angel Minkov]

I present Ts via games - my friends tell me a color and I show them different Ts and explain where they live, how theyre like and such. Everyone likes them, especially girls, which is odd.

I was expecting my teacher to help me. We sent the presentations to our teacher.

 

[Blueandbluer]

Everyone likes them, especially girls, which is odd.

Nothing odd about it. As many of us have stated, when kids are young, girls actually seem as much if not more drawn to bugs/spiders/snakes/etc than boys are. It isn't until culture gets in the mix and tells them they shouldn't that the pendulum swings.

I worked with animals and kids for about 15 years, so I had plenty of time to observe.