Stung by a P. Leiosoma

[Bothrops]

See http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/p_liosoma.php

Fausta, I hope that you are ok right now. You must be strong and I'll wait a post of you soon.

Good luck,
Bothrops.

 

[Wolvie56X]

hope you are ok man, 4 times? wow, the rating is 3/5, but i dont know what that covers with 3 more stings to it, please be ok and keep us updated, heres to a fast recovery

 

[fusion121]

Fusion, you really need to spend some time in the States. This is not the UK. I agree that there is little chance that seeking medical attention would get the press involved, but not for the same reason. Basically, they just aren't skulking around the ER looking for such a story, and the medical personel are looking at some potentially nasty consequences if they get caught leaking patient treatment info. However, if it did somehow come to the attention of the press that someone had been seriously envenomated by a pet scorpion, there are lots of media people who would blow it all out of proportion. And the fact that some idiot went and started calling one species a Deathstalker doesn't help.....

I'm not confident the press would really make that big a deal of it, one thing about the US it that it also suffers from a rabid paranoia of the press, which is ironically the greatest decision maker in the US. There have been accidents here in the UK involving pets and the press have never "gone to town over it". However I'll grant you I find the american way of thinking distinctly counter intuitive at times so perhaps I'm underestimating that fact.

If the examples you've stated are true, then that is foolish. I'm all for sensible legislation not all out bans. I think the DWA here in the UK is rather a good one actually, in terms of practicality the permit requirement for buthids was probably the safest way to go. Its a pity it has to be this way, and the problem is that with no legislation some idiot child going to get stung by and buthid and die and then your all in trouble due to the "gut reaction" effect (personally I'm gunning on this being an inevitability, assuming the press were interested), if sensible legislation was introduced now you could avoid the death and the gut reaction, if I were a hobbiest in the US I think I'd push for this, it would be the most responsible and safest path to take, while protecting the hobby.

 

[carpe scorpio]

We are not a Nation of subjects and no new law is going to be effective or well received. Scorpions are not going to run down the street and kill some neighborhood kid like a pitbull would. The adult that bought the scorpion (buthid)should know what they bought, and accept responsibility for it. If you have people sign a waiver, fine, but a law to protect the stupid IS stupid. Those of us who have been doing this for years know the risks and deal with them. The supporters of gun-control have used the same logic and that doesn't work either. It's like when some wacko goes nuts and shoots a dozen people and they act like the gun did it, not that individual. This has to fall on the person at fault, not all those of us who didn't mess up. Any death from a sting would be a tradgedy, but certainly not a reason for a new law. What is needed is education, tell people the symptomology of a particular scorpion's envenomation, and they will think twice before "buying ahead of their experience". They can have my scorpions when they pry them from my cold dead fingers!.

 

[errit]

Well I hope you will recover completely. You must have taken the full load of its venom, 4 stings, that parabuthus could be named: Parabuthus boxerlioma.

 

[carpe scorpio]

We haven't heard from him all day, I hope that he is getting some much needed rest.

 

[fusion121]

We are not a Nation of subjects and no new law is going to be effective or well received. Scorpions are not going to run down the street and kill some neighborhood kid like a pitbull would. The adult that bought the scorpion (buthid)should know what they bought, and accept responsibility for it. If you have people sign a waiver, fine, but a law to protect the stupid IS stupid. Those of us who have been doing this for years know the risks and deal with them. The supporters of gun-control have used the same logic and that doesn't work either. It's like when some wacko goes nuts and shoots a dozen people and they act like the gun did it, not that individual. This has to fall on the person at fault, not all those of us who didn't mess up. Any death from a sting would be a tradgedy, but certainly not a reason for a new law. What is needed is education, tell people the symptomology of a particular scorpion's envenomation, and they will think twice before "buying ahead of their experience". They can have my scorpions when they pry them from my cold dead fingers!.

I don't think its anywhere near that simple(and without getting into the gun control debate), firstly we don't consider all individuals to be morally/legally responsible for their actions (ie kids) so the a law to protect the stupid (prehaps just irresponsible) isn't always stupid (I'd hope dealers would prevent children from owning them but its difficult to regulate). Furthermore a scorpion is capable of harming more then just the person who keeps it hence the waiver is not an acceptable solution. A scorpion in a hot climate like the US summer can move a fair distance, what happens if it crawls to a neighbours house, or into a flat mates bedroom. If their stung by your LQ the fact you signed a waiver isn't really going to help them.

 

[PIter]

I don't think its anywhere near that simple(and without getting into the gun control debate), firstly we don't consider all individuals to be morally/legally responsible for their actions (ie kids) so the a law to protect the stupid (prehaps just irresponsible) isn't always stupid (I'd hope dealers would prevent children from owning them but its difficult to regulate).

Parents are responsible for their kids actions, and if parents let unsuitable childeren keep hot scorpions they should be kept responsible. But allowing unsuitable childeren to keep hot skorpions means you either know the danger and have tought you're child the rules, or a bad parent just letting you're child keep hot skorpions. But you never know with kids, and as one misstake kan lead to disaster, No rookie should be allowed to keep hot scorpions no matter age.. There should be some kind of monitering scorpions. Don't know how that should work :?

 

[carpe scorpio]

One, I hope that Kelly is doing well. Two, "children" shouldn't have hot scorps, laws or not, that's just silly. Three, If laws protect the innocent, why are there so many underage deaths every year from alcohol.......hmmmmm. People are going to have what they want regardless of laws, I know I will. In the last hour, some kid got run over by a drunk, and several more captive Androctonus have given birth. Some things are just inevitable.

 

[PIter]

One, I hope that Kelly is doing well. Two, "children" shouldn't have hot scorps, laws or not, that's just silly. Three, If laws protect the innocent, why are there so many underage deaths every year from alcohol.......hmmmmm. People are going to have what they want regardless of laws, I know I will. In the last hour, some kid got run over by a drunk, and several more captive Androctonus have given birth. Some things are just inevitable.

You're right of course, I didnt read my post through before i posted it.

 

[Eurypterid]

I don't think its anywhere near that simple(and without getting into the gun control debate), firstly we don't consider all individuals to be morally/legally responsible for their actions (ie kids) so the a law to protect the stupid (prehaps just irresponsible) isn't always stupid (I'd hope dealers would prevent children from owning them but its difficult to regulate). Furthermore a scorpion is capable of harming more then just the person who keeps it hence the waiver is not an acceptable solution. A scorpion in a hot climate like the US summer can move a fair distance, what happens if it crawls to a neighbours house, or into a flat mates bedroom. If their stung by your LQ the fact you signed a waiver isn't really going to help them.

Fusion is right. It's not whether *you* get hurt by your scorpions, it's the fear of the freaked out public that your scorpions might get loose and kill all of them that will be the reason laws are passed. This is the reasoning behind the Florida law. It's even specifically spelled out that they are restricted because of fear of what they might do if they got loose. And remember, this law wasn't even the result of an incident with a scorpion, or even the result of any actual escape by the roaches that precipitated the action (in fact, not a single exotic arthropod pest species in Florida has ever been the result of an intentionally imported species). It was simply the fear of "what if". The problem is that it isn't at all a reasonable permit to ensure responsible ownership, but is essentially a ban against the hobby in general, in effect.

Of course, Carpe is also right, in that the law is completely ineffective in stopping the hobby. You can easily get almost any species in your local pet store, as most of the stores don't even know the law exists. In fact, most of the biggest importers are here. So the law isn't actually keeping anyone (except those willing to obey it on their own) from keeping these species. But the law does make hobbyists criminals (unless they go through the completely unreasonable application procedure), and its only likely effect is to keep someone who does get tagged from seeking medical attention, even if they need it, for fear of prosecution. It actually encourages irresponsible ownership, by pushing the hobby somewhat underground.

 

[Zach33]

All of this and yet look at how many people's dogs get loose and bite and kill people. It kinda sucks how such childhood hatred for some things can grow into a whole society being terrified of something they know nothing about. Of course we can't leave it to the media to educate people that most species (mainly T's, seems to be more medically sigificant scorps) we keep are no more harm to us than a common honeybee or wasp. :?

What I really want to know right now is how Fausta is doing. I'm really starting to worry...its been two days hasn't it?

 

[Fausta]

I Survived

Hello All,
I appreciate the concerns you all had about my health. I survived, but it was a pretty scary experience. I had some sort of relapse a few hours after the sting happened and was in and out of it all night. I was sweating up a storm and shaking and had some breathing problems as well as a very tight throat. I had 2 nurses with their bags to help me and they set up an IV for me and gave me antihistamines as well as some other things I don't remember much about. They apparently were on the telephone with poison control about exactly what they were dealing with. My stubborn self would not go to the hospital. I had given my wife a print-out I keep on hand for each scorpion and I already had one for the P. leiosoma I previously had. Not sure if they were any help. I must say I never expected this to happen from a P. leiosoma, but I guesss you never know. I have ben stung a few times by B. arenicolas and a few others as well from the deserts of Egypt and California. The B. arenicola was bad the second time, but nothing like this. The swelling in my arm has subsided to about 30% and I still get small bouts of twitching if you can believe that! My muscles still ache a bit and I am very sensitive to light and heat right now, but my brain is seemingly normal as well as my body functions. I liken it to someone who uses a drug and gets high from it and it slowly fades away as it is absorbed into the body, leaving a few of it's effects as it wears on. Something like this. I am not even allergic to bees! I did notice the first 2 punctures are quite swollen like knots and angry and the latter 2 not so bad, perhaps he ran out of juice after the first two stings. It was just a wicked, wicked sting and the scorp must have given me everything it had. The scorpion is quite large, we measured it at about 4" with the tail curled. It did tell me it was sorry though
So if anyone has any questions about envenomation that my experience may answer or shed light on let me know and i'll try to explain some details about this horrid affair.
By the way, the moron who gave me this scorpion tank said he thought it was one of the "empty" tanks, but since he has scorpions everywhere I think he should always empty the soil from a dead tank to be sure. He has many deathstalkers and A. australis' and I could have been killed. He is very sorry and offered a lifetime supply of crickets and other things but I am not going to speak to him for awhile. I am so respectful about the awesome danger these wonderful animals represent that I take extra caution for their own and my own safety. It makes me sick that someone can just throw these things around so carelessly and the old saying came true "someone is going to get hurt".
I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow to check my heart and other things. I plan to speak about this as a freak event and not imply I keep these at all. I don't want people to freak out about poisonous animals and keep the remote chance of media attention away from this stupid, stupid event.
Sorry so long winded, but this is an unfortunate part of our hobby and a reality which potentially awaits everyone who takes poisonous creatures lightly.
Kelly

 

[carpe scorpio]

I'm very glad that you are alive and kicking. sounds like you had the best at- home treatment that anyone could expect. Getting a further check is a good idea since your'e still getting occasional twitches. Happy to have you back.

 

[Tim R.]

Well, welcome back Kelly! Glad to hear your alright.

 

[PIter]

Glad you're better, and very gratful it was not a Death Stalker or AA.

 

[ArNT1]

I have been away for the weekend so I've just read through this thread... I'm glad you're OK Kelly! That must have been scary!
But think of it this way: now you and your scorp have a special bond

 

[MilkmanWes]

Something he said about the difference in the 4 stings made me want to ask something.

With venomous snakes they can control how much of their venom is injected and will use what is necessary to ward off the threat or subdue the prey. Is this something scorpions do? Do they have control over how much venom is injected?

Is the venom delivery more automatic and they use multiple stings to deliver more venom until they run dry or could the scorpion have delivered whatever dose it wanted in a single sting had it the chance?

 

[Navaros]

Glad you are doing alright now Kelly. What a horrible experience that must have been. I don't know how people can be that careless either. That guy sucks, but milk the lifetime of forgiveness all you can, because from the sounds of things his life may not last as long as it should, being how careless he is.

 

[pandinus]

welcome back, Kelly,
we are glad to have you again.

John