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- Jan 5, 2004
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Hmmm, for some reason the "Can ciggeratte smoke kill Ts" thread pops into my head.
You couldnt get me that stoned or drunk.... But I would like to see u try.BugToxin said:I say yes. If someone got really, really drunk (or stoned perhaps) and alowed themselves to be bitten repeatedly by a pokie or similar strong venom species I suspect that they could die.
Well, not quite sure about that one. I remember a case that took place in Bavaria/Germany: A ~ 40 year old male, fine health, was bitten by a Poecilotheria fasciata and fell into coma in 2003. Systemic enough? ;P I think it was Martin Huber or Volker von Wirth that have been working on this article that was published via DeArGe [= German Tarantula Society].Crotalus said:No. Simply because I dont think theraphosid venom are potent enough to create lifethreatening systematic effects.
I wouldnt say no to a translation Thanks for offering!Morbus ascendit said:Would it be disturbing if that article was in German or would you like me to translate it? Going to do a search after the weekend - have to pick up some new Ts now :}
Regards,
Uwe
The only reason those warning labels are there is to protect Lego from getting their butts sued after an irresponsible parent's child chokes on one. The dearth of warning labels on everything these days doesn't really have anything to do with informing the consumer, but with protecting the company from liability claims. Sorry, you touched on a sore subject.Venom said:I see what you are saying, but in this case that logic is a bit off. We are not talking about considering tarantulas as "deadly". I'm saying that certain people would be at an elevated risk from certain tarantulas. Legos aren't "deadly", but there are warning labels on them because for children lego is a choking hazard. Does that mean we should fear lego, or call it dangerous to everyone? NO. But we should acknowledge that it can be dangerous for some people, in this case children.
For most people a poec bite isn't life threatening, but for some people I think we should acknowledge that it could be.
Based on what evidence? Bite reports. If so, these are purely anecdotal and need to be taken with a grain of salt. Were the individual's vital signs monitored? The increased heart rate that some have stated they experienced after a bite could just have likely been caused by an adrenaline rush. There is no scientific evidence to suggest that tarantula venom is harmful.Venom said:I am saying there is a more than slight chance of death for some people with serious health problems.
People die from bee stings because of anaphylaxis. Their body couldn't handle the make up of the bee venom. European or africanised doesn't make a difference. African bees just send half the entire hive for over a mile insted of about 30 bees for 200-300 feet.WhyTeDraGon said:a bee sting can cause death, so why not a spider bite? hmmm?
From what I have read, the make up of tarantula venom is significantly different than bee venom. The composition is one that would be likely to cause anaphylaxis. Crotalus (Lelle) could probably provide some links detailing this. I don't have them readily available.hjlantern said:People die from bee stings because of anaphylaxis. Their body couldn't handle the make up of the bee venom. European or africanised doesn't make a difference. African bees just send half the entire hive for over a mile insted of about 30 bees for 200-300 feet.
The same would be for tarantulas. I you're that 1 in 1 million that will go into anaphylaxis be aware. How many deaths are publicized for T bites??? None that I've ever heard. You may wish you were dead but that's 99.99999999999.....%. Some true spiders, yes. Not T's.
Originally posted by Martin H.:
Hello Swen,
A friend of mine is just writing on a bitereport: His neighbour (who keeps Ts as well) has been bitten by a male P. fasciata. First he became euphoric, like under drugs, than it turned into the opposite and he collapsed. An emergency doctor didn't manage to get him in a responsive state and got him admitted to intensive care unit ... Fortunately he survived!In answer to
I request answers from those that have made "real" experiences with (T-)venom *ggg*
When the article is done it shall be published via DeArGe Mitteilungen (Mitteilungen = announcements / the papers' new name is Arachne).
The bitten one was an adult male - could be "great fun" if a child is bitten by a Poecilotheria =;-(
There's several other bite reports, that - IMHO - don't sound funny either.
Here's a posting I've made in another forum >>> click me <<<:
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Hi @ll,
IMHO one shouldn't demonize the genus Poecilotheria. On the other hand one shouldn't play it down knowing WHAT lives under your roof. There's some bitereports that don't sound "funny". Some longstanding keepers have been affected as well (maybe because of carelessness?). Some reports for you to read:
Gabriel, R. (2002): Notes and Observations Regarding the Bite of Poecilotheria pederseni. British Tarantula Society Journal Vol.17(No.2): 61-64.
Schmidt, G. (1988): Wie gefährlich sind Vogelspinnenbisse ? Deutsches Ärzteblatt 85 Heft 28/29(2): 1424-1425.
(a.o. Info regarding Poecilotheria fasciata)
Poecilotheria fasciata: >> click me <<
Poecilotheria regalis: >> click me <<
I received an update some day later via Mail by Darrin:
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At 16:52 12.02.2003 -0700, you wrote:
Martin,
Thank you for that reference. I had not read that bite history. I
experienced essentially everything he described with the exception of the
application of Benadryl and the steroids. Essentially everything Josh
described was a feeling that my body experienced or exactly the same thought as went through my own head.
I found out that the bite keeps working in stealth mode. I had no
symptoms for days and went out for a one mile walk last night on level
terrain. When I got home I was just about exhausted, and the muscle cramping
suddenly started all over again, but fortunately it only lasted for a few
hours.
The thing that struck me most about Josh's account is the same thing
that I went through. In the day or so after the bite the unbelievable pain
suddenly subsides and you think that you are home free. Shortly after that,
it hits the rest of your body like a hammer.
Sorry, everyone may have heard enough about pokie bites by now, but I'm still in total amazement over the whole thing.
--8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<-
A collection of Tarantula bitereports - also containing Poecilotheria (1 x P. pederseni, 2 x P. regalis) is to be found here: >> click me <<
In general:
Mebs, D. (2000b): Vogelspinnen. Pages 207-208. Gifttiere. Ein Handbuch für Biologen, Toxikologen, Ärzte und Apotheker. Wissenchaftliche Verlagsgesellschaft mbH Stuttgart, Stuttgart.
=> Don't get bitten =;-)
Regards,
Martin
PS.: After having read these reports I became more carefull in the meantime and use a pair of tweezers when I've got to do some maintenance. I've been careless before just reaching into the tank counting on the animal to hide away.
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Regards,
Martin
www.spiderpix.com
www.dearge.de
www.kultURKNALL.de
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»ARACHNE« – das Fachmagazin für Spinnentiere