thinking of getting a t.blondi
- Thread starter PapaSmurf
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You pray to god he is in a good mood. :} Peace
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I have to wait for her to be out in the open because she has a large rock shelter she hides out in. When she is in the open I use a small kritter keeper and basically trap her with it. Then carefully slide the top under the now upside down kritter keeper and voila a caught T blondi. It can take a few tries sometimes because she is so darn fast. Once shes in the small keeper it is then easy to deal with her.
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Uh... you are pretty just hearing what you want to at this point, because the whole point of Code's posts were to get people to steer their thoughts AWAY from the BLACK AND WHITE statements that they need high humidity, period. How is Code's saying that they can live quite well for years in the care of a very respected hobbyist/professional under very non-humid conditions in any way promoting a black and white point of view? If anything, he's saying "stop looking at it like it's so black and white".
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P. murinus ranges from a very dry climate to a monsoonish climate. Some pple actually do keep them in high humidity enclosures. That is a bit off topic though, regarding humidity levels for the T. blondi.. Code is correct. They can be kept very successfully in low humidity setups. I keep mine in dry environments. The only time I raise the humidity in any of my T. blondi's cages is when they are very close to a molt. That is probably not needed, just a precaution I prefer to take. I used to keep them in very humid, swamplike conditions, and I hated it. To many problems with mold and mites and such. Oh, the slings I keep in medium level humidity setups also. So, long story short.. T. blondi's can be kept successfully in either setup.. choice is really up to the individual keeper. I would recomend the novice keeper to keep them in a higher humidity range, but that's merely a suggestion.
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SO basically what you guys are saying is tht everything we read in books and on the internet about T. blondi's is crap. I researched for month's before I bought a blondi, I read books and on the internet and talked to mutiple ppl saying that blondi's require high humidity, so basically all those sources pretty much don't know what they are talking about. If ppl keep them in low humidity and they thrive, great, and you guys may back the monkey, but the bottom line is if we should be keeping blondi's in low humdity then why are they from the rainforest.If someone can explain that then I will admit I'm wrong. They are in the rainforest because that is ideal conditions to live. Peace.
I agree here with you it seems like they are saying books are full of it..... i mean ive been reading up on t.blondi before i got my frist G.rosea and it said they need high humidity ect ect one book even said he kept his t.blondi at 90% humidity.. and if that isnt high then what is??????
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You seem to be hung up on the fact they're from the rainforest combined with the idea you are also delusional in believing that creatures were all placed where they are by God and they are perfectly suited where He put them. Bollocks.
Creatures are where they are because they survived there, period, end of discussion. Humans survive everywhere from the Arctic Circle to the Saharra, and it has nothing to do with God and everything to do with the fact that there is what a species *requires* to survive, and what happens to be their environment.
South America was not always a tropical rainforest, as little as a few ten thousand years ago it was a fairly temperate climate south of the northern icelands. T. blondi was there and they were surviving. Then the ice receded and it warmed up and became a tropical rainforest. T. blondi was there and they were surviving. I have no idea what the environment was where T. blondi first emerged as a species, but it's a good bet it barely resembled where they live today naturally.
====
As for your disbelief that most of what you find on the internet, particularly in caresheets, is crap, well, welcome to reality 101. The authors of caresheets mean well enough, but they're derived from parroting other internet sources, not real life experience.
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As an addendum, one of the biggest proponents of the 'keep'em dry' husbandry for T. blondi and every other species that doesn't just up and die is Stan Shultz himself - the author of the TKG with over 30 years experience and has kept several thousand Ts over that period.
Now, granted, that isn't in the TKG itself, but he's stated it on more than one occasion on the ATS_enthusiast list so you aren't really up on your internet sources if you're so shocked at all of this. Long term keepers know that moisture and humidity is massively overblown in regards to tarantula husbandry because we've kept tarantulas for as long as decades (16 years for my longest kept specimen so far in captivity) without fussing with such unecessary issues and the Ts did fine.
It takes a special kind of obstinance to deny what real life experience says versus parotting care sheets written by people who many times have not even kept the species they're writing about.
Now, granted, that isn't in the TKG itself, but he's stated it on more than one occasion on the ATS_enthusiast list so you aren't really up on your internet sources if you're so shocked at all of this. Long term keepers know that moisture and humidity is massively overblown in regards to tarantula husbandry because we've kept tarantulas for as long as decades (16 years for my longest kept specimen so far in captivity) without fussing with such unecessary issues and the Ts did fine.
It takes a special kind of obstinance to deny what real life experience says versus parotting care sheets written by people who many times have not even kept the species they're writing about.
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Good to hear from you!
This is a response from Stanley Schultz about humidity. Maybe this will help. Its from Yahoo Groups so I can't post the link but you can sign up and read for yourselves.
On Sat, 20 Jul 2002, bwhatch2 wrote:
> mr shultz,
Please. "Mr. Schultz" was my dad. I'm just "Stan."
> ... in your analagy of "if everyone in town wears a red shirt......" it
> actually seems that 95% of them are wearing the red shirt of misting, so
> i readily put it on.
That analogy was in reference to the feeding of dead food, not misting.
For some reason enthusiasts of whatever ilk tend to over-care for their
pets. This is true of tropical fish (how many did you kill by over feeding
before you learned the hard way?), house plants (how many did you rot to
death by over watering before you learned the hard way?) and most other
plants and animals that we keep.
The misting thing was well intended but completely misdirected. It was
started by someone back in the dark ages of tarantula keeping and is
assumed to be the "correct method" by everyone who hasn't taken the time
to look at the situation and think it through.
> ... now the questions, you mentioned in your article that "misting...can
> endanger the life of your pet" (forgive the paraphrasing) how so?
It makes you think you're doing something important while accomplishing
nothing, thus throwing you a red herring. You may mist but neglect to give
your pet a water dish. When the tarantula is near death you may finally
realize the error in your ways and correct the problem, almost too late.
You were lucky. Many others were not.
> and question two, i have frequently read that only spiders under 3"
> should have a water bowl, seemed logical then but now i am thinking that
> they should simply have a smaller water bowl
I don't know where you read this or who propounds it, but I don't believe
it for a second! In fact, I'd urge the exact opposite!
All tarantulas except perhaps babies being kept in their first containers
(we use baby food jars) should, as a matter of policy, be given a water
dish. It's partly for their benefit, partly for yours. They need the
water, and as soon as they're large enough to be moved to larger quarters
you need to be trained to give them water dishes! Without this training,
they are likely to die of thirst.
"Schultz' Official Rules" for the water dish run something like this:
1. Every tarantula cage beyond a newly emerged baby's gets a water dish.
Newly emerged babies and those up to about 1/4 to 1/3 full grown are
usually kept on damp soil or vermiculite. Under those conditions, water
dishes are not so critical. Thereafter, most tarantulas should gradually
be weaned to a dry cage with just a water dish as a means of controlling
mite infestations. Exceptions: Goliaths (T. blondi, maybe T. apophysis)
and members of the genus Hysterocrates must be kept in damp cages all
their lives.
2. The dish must contain a small rock or chip of slate that protrudes
above the water line. This has nothing to do with the tarantula. It's a
safety ramp for crickets. *NEVER* use a cotton wad or a sponge! (Bacterial
growths and sanitation.)
3. The dish must be wide enough to allow the tarantula to immerse its
entire front end in the water if it wishes to, in spite of the rock or
slate chip.
4. The dish should be deep enough that it won't dry up too soon. This will
save you some effort in keeping liquid water before the tarantula and save
the tarantula some stress from continually running out of drinking water.
5. The dish must be shallow enough, or be partly buried in the substrate
deeply enough, so that the tarantula can reach over its side as the spider
moves around the cage. The tarantula has to be able to find the water.
5. Use a larger water dish if you have trouble with exceptionally low
humidity in your geographic area. If you have reason to believe that your
tarantula would do better with more humidity in its cage, do something to
restrict its ventilation. (Desirable in Calgary where the humidity is
often less than 30%. Maybe not so important in Florida where it's seldom
less than 70%.) One of the more common methods of restricting ventilation
is to cover the cage top with plastic food wrap.
> and finally, can you give me a rule of thumb on how much ventilation is
> prudent. i currently keep most of my small collection in tupperware
> containers about the size of a medium kritter keeper with four 1/4"
> holes drilled in them, probably not enough ventilation, huh?
"Schultz', Breene's and O'Brien's Official Rules" for cage size are:
1. The ideal size cage for a typical, "generic" tarantula is one with a
width of about 1-1/2 times the tarantula's leg span. (Leg span is normally
about twice the body length.) The length of the cage should be at least
about 1-1/2 times the width. This assumes a rectangular cage. If yours is
square, maybe 2 leg spans by 2 leg spans is acceptable.
2. A distance between the top of the substrate and the top of the cage
should not exceed the leg span of the tarantula. This reduces the chances
of injuries and deaths due to falls.
3. In Calgary, with a very dry climate, the total opening for ventilation
might be 5% of the cage floor, maybe less. In the Gulf Coast states where
the humidity is generally much higher, maybe 10% is better.
If you have a tarantula with a 3" (7.5 cm) body (= 6" (15 cm) leg span), a
rectangular cage might be 9" X 14" (22 X 33 cm), give or take. It's height
should not exceed 7" (17 cm) if you have 1" (2.5 cm) of potting soil as
substrate. A good square cage might measure 11" (27 cm) on a side, more or
less.
In Calgary's dry climate the total open area might be 6 square inches (2"
X 3", 5 cm X 7.5 cm, for instance), maybe less. In New Orleans, that might
be increased to 12 square inches, 3' X 4" (7.5 X 10 cm). Remember that air
conditioning and artificial heat both serve to greatly reduce the real
relative humidity in your home. (You can't trust the weather man!)
Peace, health, wisdom and wealth. Live long and prosper.
Stan Schultz
Vice-President, AMERICAN TARANTULA SOCIETY
This is a response from Stanley Schultz about humidity. Maybe this will help. Its from Yahoo Groups so I can't post the link but you can sign up and read for yourselves.
On Sat, 20 Jul 2002, bwhatch2 wrote:
> mr shultz,
Please. "Mr. Schultz" was my dad. I'm just "Stan."
> ... in your analagy of "if everyone in town wears a red shirt......" it
> actually seems that 95% of them are wearing the red shirt of misting, so
> i readily put it on.
That analogy was in reference to the feeding of dead food, not misting.
For some reason enthusiasts of whatever ilk tend to over-care for their
pets. This is true of tropical fish (how many did you kill by over feeding
before you learned the hard way?), house plants (how many did you rot to
death by over watering before you learned the hard way?) and most other
plants and animals that we keep.
The misting thing was well intended but completely misdirected. It was
started by someone back in the dark ages of tarantula keeping and is
assumed to be the "correct method" by everyone who hasn't taken the time
to look at the situation and think it through.
> ... now the questions, you mentioned in your article that "misting...can
> endanger the life of your pet" (forgive the paraphrasing) how so?
It makes you think you're doing something important while accomplishing
nothing, thus throwing you a red herring. You may mist but neglect to give
your pet a water dish. When the tarantula is near death you may finally
realize the error in your ways and correct the problem, almost too late.
You were lucky. Many others were not.
> and question two, i have frequently read that only spiders under 3"
> should have a water bowl, seemed logical then but now i am thinking that
> they should simply have a smaller water bowl
I don't know where you read this or who propounds it, but I don't believe
it for a second! In fact, I'd urge the exact opposite!
All tarantulas except perhaps babies being kept in their first containers
(we use baby food jars) should, as a matter of policy, be given a water
dish. It's partly for their benefit, partly for yours. They need the
water, and as soon as they're large enough to be moved to larger quarters
you need to be trained to give them water dishes! Without this training,
they are likely to die of thirst.
"Schultz' Official Rules" for the water dish run something like this:
1. Every tarantula cage beyond a newly emerged baby's gets a water dish.
Newly emerged babies and those up to about 1/4 to 1/3 full grown are
usually kept on damp soil or vermiculite. Under those conditions, water
dishes are not so critical. Thereafter, most tarantulas should gradually
be weaned to a dry cage with just a water dish as a means of controlling
mite infestations. Exceptions: Goliaths (T. blondi, maybe T. apophysis)
and members of the genus Hysterocrates must be kept in damp cages all
their lives.
2. The dish must contain a small rock or chip of slate that protrudes
above the water line. This has nothing to do with the tarantula. It's a
safety ramp for crickets. *NEVER* use a cotton wad or a sponge! (Bacterial
growths and sanitation.)
3. The dish must be wide enough to allow the tarantula to immerse its
entire front end in the water if it wishes to, in spite of the rock or
slate chip.
4. The dish should be deep enough that it won't dry up too soon. This will
save you some effort in keeping liquid water before the tarantula and save
the tarantula some stress from continually running out of drinking water.
5. The dish must be shallow enough, or be partly buried in the substrate
deeply enough, so that the tarantula can reach over its side as the spider
moves around the cage. The tarantula has to be able to find the water.
5. Use a larger water dish if you have trouble with exceptionally low
humidity in your geographic area. If you have reason to believe that your
tarantula would do better with more humidity in its cage, do something to
restrict its ventilation. (Desirable in Calgary where the humidity is
often less than 30%. Maybe not so important in Florida where it's seldom
less than 70%.) One of the more common methods of restricting ventilation
is to cover the cage top with plastic food wrap.
> and finally, can you give me a rule of thumb on how much ventilation is
> prudent. i currently keep most of my small collection in tupperware
> containers about the size of a medium kritter keeper with four 1/4"
> holes drilled in them, probably not enough ventilation, huh?
"Schultz', Breene's and O'Brien's Official Rules" for cage size are:
1. The ideal size cage for a typical, "generic" tarantula is one with a
width of about 1-1/2 times the tarantula's leg span. (Leg span is normally
about twice the body length.) The length of the cage should be at least
about 1-1/2 times the width. This assumes a rectangular cage. If yours is
square, maybe 2 leg spans by 2 leg spans is acceptable.
2. A distance between the top of the substrate and the top of the cage
should not exceed the leg span of the tarantula. This reduces the chances
of injuries and deaths due to falls.
3. In Calgary, with a very dry climate, the total opening for ventilation
might be 5% of the cage floor, maybe less. In the Gulf Coast states where
the humidity is generally much higher, maybe 10% is better.
If you have a tarantula with a 3" (7.5 cm) body (= 6" (15 cm) leg span), a
rectangular cage might be 9" X 14" (22 X 33 cm), give or take. It's height
should not exceed 7" (17 cm) if you have 1" (2.5 cm) of potting soil as
substrate. A good square cage might measure 11" (27 cm) on a side, more or
less.
In Calgary's dry climate the total open area might be 6 square inches (2"
X 3", 5 cm X 7.5 cm, for instance), maybe less. In New Orleans, that might
be increased to 12 square inches, 3' X 4" (7.5 X 10 cm). Remember that air
conditioning and artificial heat both serve to greatly reduce the real
relative humidity in your home. (You can't trust the weather man!)
Peace, health, wisdom and wealth. Live long and prosper.
Stan Schultz
Vice-President, AMERICAN TARANTULA SOCIETY
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- May 23, 2003
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- 72
"Creatures are where they are because they survived there, period, end of discussion." Exactly.
If you wanna use human analogy then...
Why are humans on earth? Because we survive here, although we may travel to other planets, we could never survive anywhere else, at least not ideally. Earth has what we require, air, water, everything. It has everything we need. Yes other planet's may someday produce water, it doesnt have everything. Point being, species SURVIVE where they are because the conditions allow them to survive. Release a rattlesnake into the rainforest and it will be sluggish and slowly die, allowing a species such as the Blondi to kill the deadly rattlesnake, thus surviving. Vice versa. If that don't make sense then I don't know what does.You might as well just throw everything we know about Tarantula husbandry. :? Yes, things are different in captivity, by why go against nature, nature is like it is for a REASON. South America may have been different then it is now, but as everyone knows, things evolve and change to fit thier enviroment, yes blondi's may do fine in captivity under low humidity, but because they adjusted to it, they where taken away from theie natural enviroment, so they had to evolve, not because they wanted to, but because they had to. Peace.
If you wanna use human analogy then...
Why are humans on earth? Because we survive here, although we may travel to other planets, we could never survive anywhere else, at least not ideally. Earth has what we require, air, water, everything. It has everything we need. Yes other planet's may someday produce water, it doesnt have everything. Point being, species SURVIVE where they are because the conditions allow them to survive. Release a rattlesnake into the rainforest and it will be sluggish and slowly die, allowing a species such as the Blondi to kill the deadly rattlesnake, thus surviving. Vice versa. If that don't make sense then I don't know what does.You might as well just throw everything we know about Tarantula husbandry. :? Yes, things are different in captivity, by why go against nature, nature is like it is for a REASON. South America may have been different then it is now, but as everyone knows, things evolve and change to fit thier enviroment, yes blondi's may do fine in captivity under low humidity, but because they adjusted to it, they where taken away from theie natural enviroment, so they had to evolve, not because they wanted to, but because they had to. Peace.
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- Jul 22, 2002
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@freetosting, since you have absolutely no understanding of what evolution is or that no creature does anything other than survive, us included, whether because of or in spite of environment, I'm done with you. Have fun thinking you know a thing or two about keeping T. blondi, and have fun when you try to explain to your biology prof in college in a few years exactly how it is individuals evolve.
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- Jul 22, 2002
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- 3,783
The relevant Shultz posting
He is not going so far as to say they can be kept dry, but he is definitely saying they don't need the conditions people commonly report is necessary. OTOH, we also have other experienced keepers saying they have kept theirs dry without problems. So, keep them where you personally are comfortable, but be aware, just like I said before this thread derailed that it is not a cut and dried issue.
Code can you tell me why a T can supposedly live under much lass humid conditions and do ok and a scorpion cant? If you put a emporer scorpion in say 50% humidity it wont moult and will shorten its life span greatly. Whats so different about a T.
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- Jul 22, 2002
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- 3,783
If I knew more about scorpions, I might have a better idea. Tarantulas I know well, scorpions I am a rank novice and freely admit it.
Though given the temporal distance in their very different evolutionary paths, you might as well ask why an iguana needs a heat source and you don't.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2002
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- 344
Just because they live in the rainforest doesn't mean the humidity where they live is huge. People make the mistake of assuming that rainforests are just one big, wet, steaming sauna all the time, which is untrue. Avicularia also come from the rainforest, and the only Avics I've ever had that needed a huge humidity boost were/are adult males. Given that Avicularia tend to live a little higher up, the airiness of their habitat tends to de-humidify things some, but the point is the same -- just because it's the rainforest doesn't mean they necessarily live in really high humidity conditions. And Chip's point is a good one - just because you adapt to live in a given locale doesn't mean you require the conditions there.
I've kept T. blondi for two and a half years, I have had 4, 3 are still with me. The one that died was killed by some kind of fly or other insect larvae brought on by having over-watered the tank prior to a suspected molt. The larvae apparently infected or attacked the spider, maybe even got into the booklungs, while it was weakened by the molt and it died. So, too much humidity killed off that one. The other three include two wildcaught females who are not mature yet, and a CB that is now about 9 " that I have raised up since it was 2 ". I started keeping the CB more and more dry around 4 " or so and have continued to do so. It is not uncommon for the tank to be bone dry for 3-4 days until it is feed/water day again, and the spider is none the worse for wear. The wild caughts are a little more sensitive, and if it dries out totally they will tend to head for the water dish for a drink when I do a refill, but none of them are kept super moist. I do a modest tank watering once a week, just enough to moisten the substrate and that's it.
I do think they appreciate a little higher humidity than your average rosehair but I also believe they can be acclimated to bone dry conditions, as my CB blondi would seem to indicate. A different species, but same topic, that I have done the same with is an H. lividum that had a mite infestation. This is a peculiar spider anyhow since I handle her regularly, but after removing all the mites on her I placed her in a dry tank with a big water dish to minmise any re-infestation. She did so well I've kept her there. She hasn't even dug any kind of burrow though she does have a hollowed-out half log shelter that she uses.
And the last thing I wanted to say is, though we can get some pointers from their natural habitats, to parrot Dr. Breene, once we take them out of the wild, all bets are off as to what will work to keep them healthy in captivity. If I could acclimate every one of my more humidity-sensitive spiders to xeric conditions and thus avoid problems with mites, crickets eggs, decaying food boluses, fungus and phorid flies I would definitely do so. It ends up being a better living environment for the spider and it makes it easier for us, too.
Adrian
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2002
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- 344
My two cents on the humidity-when-molting thing: it's only necessary if the spider is suffering some amount of internal dehydration (not necessarily of a severe character, but maybe just "thirsty"). Environmental humidity, in my opinion, has an indirect effect on molting. If the spider is at max internal hydration without added humidity, then there is no need for extra moisture come molt time. If the spider is not at max internal hydration, then some added environmental humidity may be of assistance in preparing for a molt, but only so as to hydrate the
spider. A T. blondi that is fully hydrated and in a bone dry tank will, in my opinion, need no extra humidity to complete a successful molt.
Adrian
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- May 23, 2003
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Obviously monkey man we don't agree, cool. Untill next time... ;P Peace
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- 741
To me adaptation of a species and evolution are on opposite sides of the spectrum. Evolution is a process that takes thousands of years.
Adaptation is an immediate sort of 'evolution'. Every herp or invert has to do this to survive in captivity, because none are domesticated animals. Keeping a T. blondi in a dry environment simply would cause it to adapt. It can learn that it the nessesary moisture can be obtained from the water dish. I dont think the outside humidity makes a difference as long as it can get to the water source. I have read that Curly hair T needs higher humidity, so far, my enclosure has been kept dry, and it is burrowing, webbing, eating, and molting with no problems at all.
However, if I took the dish away, how long would it live? Given those thousands of years a population might evolve to handle this problem, but the tarantula in my care would eventually die. Although I think it could obtain enough moisture from food to sustain it for many months. I dont really know if I'm getting my idea across, but maybe..... It's kinda late and I'm about fizzled out.
G night, I think.......
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I hope you don't plan on doing this in any more threads, free. Opinion is one thing, but disrespect and obstinance is quite another.