Dyskinetic syndrome is killing my collection.

[ZergFront]

I'm just going to throw some stuff out..

- What kind of water dish (if any) do they have? Could be a metal leek?

- Any decor? Live plants? Wood?

- What do you feed the feeders? Any water crystals?

- What's the substrate? Any vermiculite? Vermiculite treated with a water repellent is used to fill pores and cavities in masonry construction. Unless it's from a Horticultural Grade it might not be good to use.

 

[mdub]

Just a thought - do you use air fresheners? I have heard that products like febreeze can be very harmful to pets. Who knows?

 

[Dago]

What about nicotine? It's an insecticide (and quite a potent one, requiring quite minute doses to kill) and I'd guess smoking is pretty common. Maybe nicotine is transferred to the enclosures from unwashed hands after smoking or something?

 

[FuzzOctave]

I've never had a T come down with this, but one question that comes to mind is how much do your dogs shed? If Frontline has been used, are shed hairs flying about? From what I've read, it seems to take very small doses of any insecticide, and, or cleaning agents to cause harm.

No doubt, you've tried this, but I would completely isolate my T's and everything that comes into contact with them, from the rest of the animals in the house. I would also put something under your door to prevent any pet hair/dander form entering your T room. The tough part is that dog hair gets everywhere, including your clothing, and I'm certain that their hair/skin oils get deposited on just about everything.

Just my two cents...

 

[RoachGirlRen]

I disagree with the suggestion of using distilled water. It lacks valuable trace minerals and is not conducive to a normal internal osmotic balance. If you don't trust your tap water, regular bottled (not spring) water is fine.

What do you feed your T's, how do your source that prey, and is their only symptom the DK, or do they develop other symptoms as well?

Personally, I suspect a lot of neurological symptoms in T's are probably related to household chemical use. I definitely agree with the possibility of frontline on the dogs' fur potentially causing issues, as something as simple as a stray hair or equipment handled with improperly washed hands could potentially poison the T's. Household cleaners, air fresheners, etc. are also a good bet; I know someone that just lost every fish they own to the use of cleaners in the same room, and that's without direct contact of cleaners with the tanks, and any fumes surely diluted by the water instead of directly inhaled.

 

[J.huff23]

No chemicals of any kind are used in the room. I use plastic water dishes, not metal. I try not handle my Ts for this exact reason. Its a no smoking room, but while I was away im sure the T sitter was smoking in there...

I feed them a mix of crickets and mealworms from the LPS. But if it were the feeders wouldnt all of the Ts have it?

 

[RoachGirlRen]

Not necessarily. Things to consider would be the different effects toxins and pathogens can have depending on the animal's size, gender, degree of exposure, etc. For example, you can expect a spiderling to perish more readily than an adult spider much in the way you would expect an infant to die more quickly from the same dose of poison an adult is given. If an animal is exposed to something that builds gradually in the system, an older or less recently acquired individual would become symptomatic before a newly obtained young specimen.

What do you feed your feeders, and what does the store feed them? It's possible the feeders are being exposed to something toxic, or are carrying a pathogen.

 

[J.huff23]

I feed them old fruits and veggies. As does the store.

 

[RoachGirlRen]

Well washed? With or without peels? One problem in many fruits/veg is that pesticides soak up into their skins. Berries, fruit peels, etc. are some of the worst. If not thoroughly washed the problem is only compounded. These pesticides may be at minute levels but can build up over time in a predator's system. Not saying this is definitely what's going on, but if they food source is unwashed or has peels intact, it is a possibility.

 

[Scoolman]

I feed them old fruits and veggies. As does the store.[/QUOTE

Produce is sprayed with pesticides in the fields. Grocery stores also spray pesticides in the store to relieve the fruit fly problem.
If the produce is not thoroughly washed before being prepared these pesticides could be contaminating the feeders and when eaten by the tarantulas these pesticides will begin to concentrate.

 

[J.huff23]

I will change what I feed them and see if things improve. Thanks guys.

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

Good luck! I hope things improve for you.

 

[moose35]

its the frontline....

almost everyone who has spiders with "DKS" sypmtoms was using or had been using that stuff.
i also lost my entire collection to it.


moose

 

[robd]

its the frontline....

almost everyone who has spiders with "DKS" sypmtoms was using or had been using that stuff.
i also lost my entire collection to it.

Ditto. I am convinced that a number of things could bring on this. But I don't think it's the water.

Since you say you don't use any air fresheners or anything like that, I guess you can rule that out. I considered all of my parameters and I was about convinced that my Febreze auto-freshener device was my problem and that it wasn't the frontline. But I haven't used frontline on my dog in a couple of months now since I found out what it could do to my T's. And I haven't had any further outbreaks.

I also agree... distilled water is not the way to go. If you must use distilled water, at least treat it with Reptisafe so you put minerals back in it. But then if you're gonna do that, you might as well just treat water from the tap and save your money, cause that's what reptisafe is mainly for. I personally go to my in-laws house every once in awhile and fill up gallon jugs using their fancy "RainSoft" water softener system. That has worked well for me.

I myself have already lost 2 rosies and a G pulchra. This theory about molting out doesn't work for everyone either. I already witnessed my pink toe molt and it didn't work out, she still has the symptoms. It eventually affects their appetite and she hasn't really eaten since her molt (3 weeks ago).

I'm sorry that this is happening and I wish you the best for your T's recovering and you reversing your situation. All in all, thank you for posting your experience.

 

[JimM]

its the frontline....
almost everyone who has spiders with "DKS" sypmtoms was using or had been using that stuff.
i also lost my entire collection to it.

Interesting Moose, perhaps the mystery is nearly solved then.

 

[moose35]

Interesting Moose, perhaps the mystery is nearly solved then.

i had some problems a few years back and had to move all my spiders to my moms house( all were fine beforehand)
after a few month they started dying.
having DKS like symptoms.

i have always figured that my mom was petting 1 of the cats or dogs then came in the room with my spiders, picked up the crickets to feed them by hand probally transferring the oils from the frontline to the crickets then to my spiders.
i have 1 spider left out of the 30 or so that were there.
the spider never used to eat....go figure:?.

thats how my conclusion is drawn.
i'm sure alot of you will disagree with me but search all the prior threads on the subject and you'll see frontline(or a similar product ) being used in the house



moose

 

[SypheRrr]

What do u reffer as "frontline" ? I checked google and it said this when i asked to define frontline:
" Fipronil is a broad spectrum insecticide that disrupts the insect central nervous system by blocking the passage of chloride ions through the GABA ..."

Isnt DKS exactly problem with the central nervous system ?

Edit: I answered my question: take a look at this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontline_(product)

 

[RoachGirlRen]

While it's a good postulation, I'd be interested to know how many tarantula keepers use Frontline and have NEVER encountered DKS. My dog was definitely on Frontline when he was alive, and I've never encountered a single neurologically related death in my T's. I'd venture by the number of T owners who are also dog owners on this board, and the assumption that they likely all use some form of flea/tick prevention, that it's not always frontline. Or at the very least, frontline + some kind of lack of prudence in hand washing/handling is at play in the deaths rather than just frontline being in the house.

 

[bee67]

True say. I'd be pretty confident to say that Frontline and other oil-based flea/tick medications would easily cause DKS, but that doesn't mean they ALWAYS will result in a case. Some pet owners are probably more careful, or maybe it's just one of those things- like, not every human with mold in their house suffers respiratory problems, but we do know that there's a cause-and-effect relationship there.

In the same way, not every human with respiratory problems acquires them the same way. So, I'm assuming that not every T with DKS acquires it the same way. There are a lot of household products that are either safe for humans or in small enough does that they do not affect us, but we just don't realize the effect they will have on a tarantula.

Frontline is an insecticide, so it makes sense- bigtime- that it contributes to DKS, but there are probably other things in your home that could act as an insectide, too.

 

[Jilly1337]

Could you possibly have petted your dog and then handled or dealt with your Ts without washing your hands with soap?

I am very suspicious of Frontline and Advantage type flea control products as being a cause of DKS. I can't help but wonder if some of the product remains on our skin even after washing. These products work for a long time after being placed on the dogs, even though bathing. If it sticks to them for that long, it isn't unreasonable to think it may remain on our skin after washing too.

I've noticed a couple of fleas on my dog recently but have held off on treatments for fear of residual pesticides that stay on the skin. Any thoughts?