Dyskinetic syndrome is killing my collection.

[NMWAPBT]

what do you feed the T's and what do you feed to those feeders

 

[JimM]

Interesting to say the least

The active ingredient in Frontline™ is a phenyl pyrazole called fipronil, an insecticide discovered and developed by Rhone-Poulenc between 1985 and 1987 and placed on the market in 1993. Frontline is marketed in the UK by Merial. It is available in two formulations, a spot-on treatment and a spray. Although effective against a variety of pests, there are ongoing and unresolved concerns about its environmental, human and animal health effects.


Fipronil is classified by the World Health Organization (WHO) as a Class II moderately hazardous toxin when applied orally or by inhalation, such as may happen when using the spray. It works by disrupting the central nervous system (CNS) via the gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) regulated chloride channel, resulting in uncontrolled CNS activity and ultimately death. Symptoms of fipronil poisoning include excitability, lack of co-ordination and tremors. It is considered slightly irritating to the skin and moderately irritating to the eyes. Fipronil has been shown to be carcinogenic to rats and has therefore been classified as a Group C (Possible Human) carcinogen. Organs that can be affected by repeated exposure include the liver, thyroid and kidney.

The GABA channel is important in nerve transmission in both insects and humans. It has been claimed that fipronil binds ‘less tightly’ to the GABA receptors in vertebrates, like humans and ferrets, than it does to those same receptors in insects, and so gives a degree of selectivity. Perhaps more likely is that the different modes of absorption of insects and mammals determine whatever differential in toxicity exists. It has also been claimed that fipronil cannot interfere with a mammal’s CNS because it is not absorbed through the skin, being stored in the sebaceous glands of the animal, from which it is slowly released via follicular ducts. But studies carried out on rats have cast doubt on this claim. Simple logic would also indicate that if it were not absorbed into the skin, then it could hardly cause skin irritation.

Even if the manufacturer’s claim that fipronil is not absorbed into the body but remains on the skin surface were true, it would only serve to make fipronil even more dangerous than it is already known to be. In the presence of sunlight fipronil is now known to break down into an extremely stable chemical approximately 10 times as toxic as fipronil itself, fipronil-desulfinyl, which has a much greater tendency to bind to the GABA receptors than fipronil.

Frontline is specifically contra-indicated for use on rabbits and comes with a warning that recently treated animals should not be handled until dry and should not be allowed to sleep with humans, especially children (The Veterinary Formulary, 5th Edition, 2001). It is difficult not to draw the conclusion that since there are safer treatments for fleas, ticks and more especially ear mites available, then Frontline should never be used on any animal, even on those for which it is licensed.

 

[moose35]

an older link...


http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=1075916#post1075916


moose

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

I quit using Frontline on my animals for two reasons, one being that it never lasts more than two weeks for me, and the other being a risk to my growing tarantula collection. From the videos I've seen of DKS symptoms and my personal experience of seeing a tarantula die from Raid, I'd venture to guess that DKS is most often an inadvertent poisoning. Could be due to not cleaning insect feeder fruits and vegetables thoroughly, to topical flea and tick treatments, to household chemicals; all of these have been mentioned.
Now I'm not saying that it is in fact the cause; we don't know the cause. But I'd bet it is a major contributing factor. I'm very careful about what comes into the house, and I wash my hands before dealing with feeders or tarantulas.

JimM- that is a very interesting article. Where did you get it, and thanks for posting it.
I've switched to Comfortis for the dog. It works, and it's oral. But it still makes nervous.
Sorry for run on sentences and grammatical errors, my sleep has been majorly disrupted here lately.

 

[JimM]

I typed in "active ingredients in Front Line" and found it
here http://www.redmap.co.uk/ferretsabout/html/facts.html

Sounds to me like it's wise to avoid this stuff simply for human health concerns, let alone Tarantulas (I'm guessing it's not too great for the dog either)

 

[Jilly1337]

an older link...


http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=1075916#post1075916


moose

HAHA, that was a post by my ex, lol. I remember losing all those T's back then. This is why I am really hesitating to put anything on my dog now.

 

[mickey66]

Im having major problems with DS in my collecton. So far I have lost more than 5 Ts to it and now three more have it!!! I have no clue how they are getting it (and nor do any of us). Which is one thing I hate about it. I dont know what I could do to prevent it. I always seperate the ones that have it from the ones who dont. The ones with DS are always taken to a different room and are taken care of AFTER the healthy ones to prevent it from spreading that way. Im really close to just giving up and getting rid of all of my Ts because I dont want any of the others to catch it. I know I'm asking for a lot because very little is known about DS but I dont know what else I cant do. Any ideas?

I've just had two Aphonopelma sp.Chalcodes die from it.....first was 25 years old and the second one was maybe three years old....what in common you say? Same kritter Keeper! Don't do this its contageous!!!! I didn't know what it was cause the old spider was at the end of her life....I thought???? Mabe not? Killed both quick within two weeks.....clean water,85 degrees,feed crickets, mold maybe but i didn't see any????:? Dyskinetic syndrome? NO CLUE????? No dogs,no cats,no other pets.....no chems eithers.....I think its must be mold that i can't see or the crickets i have been feeding them from Petco.

 

[mickey66]

its the frontline....

almost everyone who has spiders with "DKS" sypmtoms was using or had been using that stuff.
i also lost my entire collection to it.


moose

Not me Moose! I just had two die.

 

[BlackCat]

Could it be that people who's T's get DkS and don't have other pets or use Frontline, were exposed to it inadvertently at a friend's or family member's house? Maybe pet the friend's dog, get dog's dander all over your clothes, go home to your T's... etc.

 

[Sleazoid]

My dog stays in my room pretty much all day, and follows me around whenever we leave. I just put some flea tick medicine on him yesterday, and it was in my room. I have done this multiple times in my room. None of my T's have acted strangely in any way, not to say that this isn't the problem. Maybe I am just lucky?

 

[NevularScorpion]

i had some problems a few years back and had to move all my spiders to my moms house( all were fine beforehand)
after a few month they started dying.
having DKS like symptoms.

i have always figured that my mom was petting 1 of the cats or dogs then came in the room with my spiders, picked up the crickets to feed them by hand probally transferring the oils from the frontline to the crickets then to my spiders.
i have 1 spider left out of the 30 or so that were there.
the spider never used to eat....go figure:?.

thats how my conclusion is drawn.
i'm sure alot of you will disagree with me but search all the prior threads on the subject and you'll see frontline(or a similar product ) being used in the house



moose

Awsome Moose, Thanks for the info I never had this thing happen to me but I will be more aware from it

 

[opticle]

heres something that you could of done:

touched to dogs fur>touched the crickets/mealworms with your hands>tarantula eats them

just a thought, hope things get better anyway mate

 

[BlackCat]

My dog stays in my room pretty much all day, and follows me around whenever we leave. I just put some flea tick medicine on him yesterday, and it was in my room. I have done this multiple times in my room. None of my T's have acted strangely in any way, not to say that this isn't the problem. Maybe I am just lucky?

Maybe it's dependant on the medicine brand? The breed of dog (or cat) and whether it sheds or not? Being that flea and tick medications are a common denominator, I personally wouldn't take the risk.

 

[AmbushArachnids]

I've just had two Aphonopelma sp.Chalcodes die from it.....first was 25 years old and the second one was maybe three years old....what in common you say? Same kritter Keeper! Don't do this its contageous!!!! I didn't know what it was cause the old spider was at the end of her life....I thought???? Mabe not? Killed both quick within two weeks.....clean water,85 degrees,feed crickets, mold maybe but i didn't see any????:? Dyskinetic syndrome? NO CLUE????? No dogs,no cats,no other pets.....no chems eithers.....I think its must be mold that i can't see or the crickets i have been feeding them from Petco.

People that work there take care of dogs and other animals that may have been exposed to flea and tick killer.

Reading this thread had me thinking. My sister has a chihuahua she treated with frontine back when i started out in the hobby.. Being a newb i took a photo of each of my 2 G. rosea on the chihuahua's head as a joke. I had owned a A. avic and a H. lividum that i never held. Well both G. rosea got DKS and i had to freeze them. I am pretty sure that petting that dog and taking that photo were causes of there demise. :wall:

 

[Musicwolf]

People that work there take care of dogs and other animals that may have been exposed to flea and tick killer.

good thought - - makes me rethink where I will buy feeders from - - my normal exotic LPS seems good - - no cats or dogs there.

 

[mickey66]

This thread has me thinking too.......Petco......Hmmm.....could very well be the answer.....lots of dogs and cats there every fri & sat.:? Myself I have not come in contact with any dogs or cats BUT I have been to Petco every week end where there are many dogs and cats! Now try to convince Petco they are selling Poisoned crickets....good luck with that one!

 

[Vespula]

That's a scary thought. Well, no more letting the dog's into the room. and Everyone who comes into the room gets to wash their hands first.

 

[blackrayne]

its the frontline....

almost everyone who has spiders with "DKS" sypmtoms was using or had been using that stuff.
i also lost my entire collection to it.


moose

i was thinking the same thing...i just lost 2 of my t's to dks symptoms...had used frontline one my cats a month earlier...the t's are out of reach of the cats but all are in the same room...so far my other t's (about 20) are not showing symptoms and i hope it stays that way...before reading these other posts i had ordered another round of frontline, but now im terrified to use it...

 

[esotericman]

I would suggest a little "experiment", taking the same species and size tarantula in the collection and moving it to a "clean" room where it is not exposed to either other pets and you wash your hands very thoroughly. I'd also, do the same with the feeders.

To my knowledge, no one has every come up with an organism or virus to blame this collection of observations on. But I do know of a person who feed a couple of tarantula mice which had been exposed to mite control medication (pest strips) which killed one adult and put the other in an ICU for 10 days.

Dehydration not being a factor, you're looking at pesticides, the trick is figuring out where the exposure is coming from. Open windows, neighbors, city applications...

What species are demonstrating the problem, what have you lost? What sized animals? Do you think feeding rates mattered?

Good luck, not knowing sucks worse than anything in this hobby.

 

[Caramell]

I've owned Ts for over one year now and have yet to have a T with DKS.
I own a cat and a dog, both of which get flea and tick medication every so often(maybe every few months). I rarely touch the dog, but I have contact with the cat multiple times a day. And not just petting, also picking her up and playing and whatnot.
I use tongs to feed my Ts, and buy my crickets at my local Petsmart. One of my Ts used to be in my room(where the cat spends a lot of its time), and now my collection is on a shelf in the corner of my dining room(cat sleeps on the dining room chairs). Sometimes I'll pick up a container with a T to take a look at something. I haven't touched a T to my skin since my MM avic died, which could explain the lack of contamination. When he was an immature male last year, my avic was handled regularly for a few weeks, then was not handled any more for the remainder of his life.
In my case, I'm either extremely lucky, or it's not the frontline.