Nematodes

[Bill S]

Anyway, I have closed out all my studies (last year was last one on hypermelanotic pigment genetics) ....

I'll PM you on this. I've been curious about hypomelanism since a pair of Crotalus atrox I have (M normal x F albino) popped out a hypomelanistic baby among its first litter. They've done this several times since, too. Don't know how closely hypermelanism and hypomelanism parallel each other genetically, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Sorry for hijacking the thread - just couldn't let this pass.

 

[JonT]

Been looking for information on nematodes and found some interesting comments on another board http://www.arachnophiles.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=10342. Page 3 is the one to read if you don’t want to read it all.

 

[xhexdx]

That looks pretty disgusting, actually.

 

[AprilH]

Not to be a nitpicker, but autopsies are done on people. Necropsies are done on animals.

 

[Charles S]

Yes, Cody. Its all your fault and boy are you in big trouble. Now you will have to put up with my ramblings.
I will keep posting as long as everyone knows I am in this to share what I know and not get into any flames or debates. I just don't have the time.
IME, nematodes invade the cheliceral tissue in the advanced stages of infestation. In simple words, the nematodes and their bacteria began to destroy cheliceral tissue. (I have a micro pic of a nematode in cheliceral tissue taken using polarized light if anyone is interested) This causes the chelicerae to "lock down" so to speak. There will be no movement of the chelicerae in the advanced stage. Once the nematode reaches internal tissue there is no stopping the process. The T begins to decompose internally.
How do the nematodes enter the chelicerae? I have my theory but its an educated guess. I will have to post a pic to explain myself.
I would leave her alone. Put her water dish in only at night for now.
Best regards,
Kerry

Kerry, I am sure many of us would be very interested to hear your educated guess if you care to share this information. We have no other information regarding this process at all.

Charles

 

[RelyK]

I just got an email back from Romain Pizzi. The veterinarian who from my research has been doing the most work and thus far he says no treatment or drug has proven to be successful. here is a copy of what he sent me.

"Dear Kyle,
Many thanks for the email, and apologies for the delay in replying. As a tarantula keeper myself, of course I understand other keepers woes with this problem. I have continued to try and treat a number of cases over the last few years using a wide variety of drugs, but unfortunately nothing has been effective. I would still be keen to receive any samples if you have them (either the whole dead tarantula, or better just the oral nematodes. Ethanol (or even surgical spirits) are better preservatives than formalin. Lyn Carta a nematologist at the US dept of Agriculture (nematology section) did the original identifications, but I have lost contact with her with moving around, and if you managed to trace she may be able to shed more light on things, as she was trying to better classify and identify the species involved.
Hope this helps!
Kind regards,
Romain
P.S. Samples are best sent to Romain Pizzi, Inglis Veterinary Centre, 120 Halbeath Road, Dunfermline, Fife, KY11 4LA, Scotland, United Kingdom (please ensure they don't leak!!!)"

Ive also sent an email to Lynn Carta, and Ill probably call the USDA on monday see if I can get in touch with her.

 

[BrianWI]

Ask him for info on what he has tried. No sense in repeating it....

 

[RelyK]

Just got an email back from Lynn Carta a nematologist from the USDA.. this is what she had to say
Dear Kyle,

Based on identification of some live material a few years ago from a Maryland student, at least one culprit is a new species of panagrolaimid nematode that I have in culture, on slides, in PCR tubes, but need to carve time to actually describe in the scientific literature. This nematode is not parasitic, but lives in the soil and is a species related to the nematodes used in "microworm" fish food. Many related species of this genus are also bark beetle associates. So my speculation on three possible sources of beetles in tarantula tanks include bark within soil substrate mix, mealworm larvae (actually beetle larvae), and large beetle grubs sometimes used as scavengers for tank waste. These hypotheses have yet to be actually demonstrated, but worried owners might consider avoiding these practices.
Yes I would be happy to receive some specimens taken from the mouths of the tarantula to confirm the identity. They should not be sent in alcohol though, and I can send a special non-toxic salt with DMSO preservative in tiny tubes that will safely kill them for further microscopic or PCR work. You are welcome to call me to discuss this further.

Sincerely,
Lynn Carta

I will be calling her tomorrow or thursday to discuss further, tomorrow might not be good because its finals week here in the college world

 

[CodeWilster]

Bump

Ok just an update...

Well so far NOTHING new with the Avic. No signs of nematodes still. She acts healthy as far as mobility and coordination is concerned. She has yet to accept food though. So, that's that. As time ticks by I am curious to see what will happen here. I am praying she eats, she seems way too shriveled to molt right now and I do not have a record of her last molt. I'll keep everyone posted if there is still any interest here...

 

[Noah Blades]

Hello all. I received a juvenile h Mac from a friend about 3 weeks ago. It was in a medium sized plastic container with Pea sized air holes. It was not accepting food and sitting on the water dish and it happened to walk on the side and I noticed the nemotodes coming from the mouth. His container was sitting on top of several stacked plastic containers with other spiders. I immediately uthenized the spider and began the process of cleaning. 8 have a huge collection some 400 ts and have never had a death or infection of any kind. I took the container below the infected spider out to a different room for quarantine. I then cleaned every surface and the outside of all T enclosures with a diluted peroxide water and paper towels. My question is: are there better methods of cleaning that I should be doing? Also as anyone else seen one spider in their collection have a infection of these nemotodes but not had them jump to other containers? Basically how worried should I be and what else should I do? I cleaned everything and sweept the room. Any advice is very very much appreciated. Thank you

 

[DaveM]

Hello all. I received a juvenile h Mac from a friend about 3 weeks ago. It was in a medium sized plastic container with Pea sized air holes. It was not accepting food and sitting on the water dish and it happened to walk on the side and I noticed the nemotodes coming from the mouth. His container was sitting on top of several stacked plastic containers with other spiders. I immediately uthenized the spider and began the process of cleaning. 8 have a huge collection some 400 ts and have never had a death or infection of any kind. I took the container below the infected spider out to a different room for quarantine. I then cleaned every surface and the outside of all T enclosures with a diluted peroxide water and paper towels. My question is: are there better methods of cleaning that I should be doing? Also as anyone else seen one spider in their collection have a infection of these nemotodes but not had them jump to other containers? Basically how worried should I be and what else should I do? I cleaned everything and sweept the room. Any advice is very very much appreciated. Thank you

Yes, I had one T die from nematodes about 20 years ago. I had a small collection back then of about a dozen others that were never affected. Some of my grad school friends studied nematodes (albeit not of a species that would infect Ts), but I hit them up for advice, and I examined some of my sick spider's white goo under microscope. Very interesting seeing the small worms. They were thickly populating the goo, so it was necessary to dilute the goo a lot in order to see a single worm separated from the wriggling mass. They're easy to kill with alcohol, peroxide, bleach, vinegar, saturated salt water solution, detergent, heat, etc. They need to be on moist medium/substrate (or a host victim), or else they'll get dehydrated and die quickly. They [clearly are not smart, but] have a nervous system and are sensory-driven such that they won't crawl far away from moisture (e.g. onto the dry glass sides of terraria). There's obviously no way that they could/would ever crawl between T enclosures. They must hitch a ride to spread through collections. At that time I was breeding crickets, and my cricket colony had some scuttle (phorid) flies -- I think that's the real danger, that flies could spread the nematodes. I immediately killed my cricket colony, just froze the whole tub on an outdoor balcony in winter. That got rid of most of the flies as well. I also made some fly traps -- apple cider vinegar diluted 1:1 with water, and a tiny drop of dish detergent to break the water surface tension so the flies fall right in and drown -- that got the rest of the flies. I disinfected all my tools (tongs, chop sticks, catch cups, etc.). After a few nervous months, no other cases appeared.

With 400 Ts, I really hope it doesn't spread in your collection. Good luck!

 

[Noah Blades]

Yes, I had one T die from nematodes about 20 years ago. I had a small collection back then of about a dozen others that were never affected. Some of my grad school friends studied nematodes (albeit not of a species that would infect Ts), but I hit them up for advice, and I examined some of my sick spider's white goo under microscope. Very interesting seeing the small worms. They were thickly populating the goo, so it was necessary to dilute the goo a lot in order to see a single worm separated from the wriggling mass. They're easy to kill with alcohol, peroxide, bleach, vinegar, saturated salt water solution, detergent, heat, etc. They need to be on moist medium/substrate (or a host victim), or else they'll get dehydrated and die quickly. They [clearly are not smart, but] have a nervous system and are sensory-driven such that they won't crawl far away from moisture (e.g. onto the dry glass sides of terraria). There's obviously no way that they could/would ever crawl between T enclosures. They must hitch a ride to spread through collections. At that time I was breeding crickets, and my cricket colony had some scuttle (phorid) flies -- I think that's the real danger, that flies could spread the nematodes. I immediately killed my cricket colony, just froze the whole tub on an outdoor balcony in winter. That got rid of most of the flies as well. I also made some fly traps -- apple cider vinegar diluted 1:1 with water, and a tiny drop of dish detergent to break the water surface tension so the flies fall right in and drown -- that got the rest of the flies. I disinfected all my tools (tongs, chop sticks, catch cups, etc.). After a few nervous months, no other cases appeared.

With 400 Ts, I really hope it doesn't spread in your collection. Good luck!

Thank you so much for the info. I have been very worried about this. It sounds like it's probably not gonna spread here then. I have seen very few flies ever. One or two every now and again. I did buy fly paper and a liquid trap and it's been up for days and has two nays on it so I don't have a strong population of flies. If nothing else you have made me feel much better. Thank you

 

[Dorifto]

Please this thead is 11years old... Don't revive old threads, even less one with 11years


Regarding your problem, clean the enclosure with bleach, rinse, let it dry at sun, repeat and rinse very well.

 

[Noah Blades]

Please this thead is 11years old... Don't revive old threads, even less one with 11years


Regarding your problem, clean the enclosure with bleach, rinse, let it dry at sun, repeat and rinse very well.

I see the smile face so I assume your joking. I am very glad i revived this thread because the problem is very real right now and the info from the above response makes me feel a little less worried. I believe I have done everything I can and am continuing to use super strict feeding and cleaning protocols as well as not having any ts come or go for 60 days or more. I have a giant collection and breeding stock. It is not possible to take every enclosure and clean with bleach and dry in sun. What I have done is completely replace enclosures and rehousing everything I possibly can. I spent 100 bucks at Walmart on new enclosures and started with ts with moisture required substrates because I am unable to let those species dry out. I am going 120 percent on this and praying and crossing fingers and toes. Thanks for having the thread and helpful advice!

 

[Dorifto]

I see the smile face so I assume your joking. I am very glad i revived this thread because the problem is very real right now and the info from the above response makes me feel a little less worried. I believe I have done everything I can and am continuing to use super strict feeding and cleaning protocols as well as not having any ts come or go for 60 days or more. I have a giant collection and breeding stock. It is not possible to take every enclosure and clean with bleach and dry in sun. What I have done is completely replace enclosures and rehousing everything I possibly can. I spent 100 bucks at Walmart on new enclosures and started with ts with moisture required substrates because I am unable to let those species dry out. I am going 120 percent on this and praying and crossing fingers and toes. Thanks for having the thread and helpful advice!

Nope, I was serious. Reviving an 11 years old thread and wait an answer from the OPs (original posters) is like to wait to win a lottery.

Did you touch any enclosure after the infected one? If so, you will need to clean those too.

Don't get paranoid now with all your enclosures, only check your Ts from time to time and try to clean you hands, tongs etc, to prevent any cross contamination, like with the coronavirus .

They are some kind of isopods that feed from nematods, so spreading them in your enclosure could help.

Can you post a pic of your setups? That could provide us better information about how we can help you better

 

[Noah Blades]

Well then I should play the lottery cause it only took a day to get a response. So seems like not a bad idea posting here

 

[Dorifto]

Ok do what you want, but we are here to help you the best we can, and if I told you to not to revive, is for a good reason.

One, the OPs could or couldn't be in this forum anymore.

Two, opening a new thread or reviving a recent one you will get more responses as the people are going to be more involved than a post that has been dead for 11 years.

And three in 11 year there could be a lot of changes regarding to nematodes.

 

[Noah Blades]

Ok do what you want, but we are here to help you the best we can, and if I told you to not to revive, is for a good reason.

One, the OPs could or couldn't be in this forum anymore.

Two, opening a new thread or reviving a recent one you will get more responses as the people are going to be more involved than a post that has been dead for 11 years.

And three in 11 year there could be a lot of changes regarding to nematodes.

I don't normally create anything on this site. Was not aware of new thread creation. Did Google search for help with nemotodes and it lead me to this post. I didn't look at the date just read through and posted. Feel free to move it to a new one if your admin and have that power. Just needed advice. If I should not post in old threads then why are they still open for posting. I don't get why you care enough to give me crap about it. Instead you could have just suggested creating a new thread and advised me how to do that but instead you give me a hard time about posting in a place that did in fact get me good advice back.

 

[Dorifto]

Hard time? I answered you politely, I give you some advices how to clean your enclosure and what steps you have to follow to not to spread nematodes to your other enclosures and I give you some good reason to open a new thread instead of reviving a dead one, so you can have more and better answers. If that's a hard time for you, sorry.

Have a good day.

 

[Noah Blades]

Hard time? I answered you politely, I give you some advices how to clean your enclosure and what steps you have to follow to not to spread nematodes to your other enclosures and I give you some good reason to open a new thread instead of reviving a dead one, so you can have more and better answers. If that's a hard time for you, sorry.

Have a good day.

Sorry it's hard to read intent and tone in text. Just aggrivated jn general.